curls Posted October 18, 2012 Report Share Posted October 18, 2012 I follow the Bromine for Beginners and admittedly have been slacking off a bit with keeping on top of things lately. I went to use the spa a few days ago and it had a noticeably green tinge to it, and the bromine was at zero. Floater was empty (my fault). I added tablets and shocked the tub (hadn't been done in about 10 days due to low usage) but it never went above 2ppm bromine. Today, it's back to zero and still has a cloudy green appearance. I tried re-shocking with bleach (3/4c as per my tub size) and the level went to 2ppm and back down within about 30 minutes. I added 2 tbsp of sodium bromide and shocked again... same result. I then searched these forums and found out that bleach can get "old" and lose effectiveness. I had been storing my bleach container in a deck box on my deck all summer. *DOH!*. Throughout this process, the test strips are showing NO chlorine. I use my Taylor kit for the bromine, TA, PH, and hardness readings, but do know that the strips I have show chlorine and that it usually shows as "some" chlorine when shocking... but if the bleach is bad... no chlorine? We have friends coming over tomorrow - I need this fixed today or else I have to drain/refill tonight and I'm not due for my every-3-month-drain/fill until mid-November. Would the easy fix be to buy new bleach and shock it again? I think i just need to shock it enough to burn off the organics and the old bleach isn't giving the bromide reserve enough of a kick-start to do so. Am I correct in my thinking here? Thanks!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chem geek Posted October 18, 2012 Report Share Posted October 18, 2012 If the bleach was out in the sun or in hot temperatures, it could have degraded. Also, you've probably got a lot of bacteria or even algae in the spa and maybe biofilms, all of which can take a lot of chlorine to get rid of. I'd get some new bleach and add at least 2 cups of it to hit it hard while keeping the circulation/filtration running. The chlorine may get used up quickly in which case add more (check in an hour). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curls Posted October 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2012 As assuming that's what it is - degraded bleach - the solution of new bleach in higher concentrations should(??) clear up the water by tomorrow? Keeping in mind the bromide reserve is now definitely topped-up and the bromine tabs are full in the floater. Remove floater for this super-shock...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanky Posted October 18, 2012 Report Share Posted October 18, 2012 That all depends on what has happened to your tub. Certainly looks like something has taken hold. Green tint is a sure sign of algae but I agree with Chem Geek that Biofilm is is a very real possibility. Try, as Chem Geek mentioned, shocking with about 2 cups of fresh bleach. (Try several times) If your bromine consumption doesn't return to normal then you will have to "Decontaminate" http://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=19115 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curls Posted October 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2012 Ok, so what I did when I got home was add just over 2 cups of bleach. The bromine level barely spiked past 7. So about 1 hour later I checked and it was down to 1-2. I added about one more cup of bleach and a packet of shock which has clarified in it (not sure what chemical but the Spa store near my office recommended it). The level went well over 10 this time and I have been filtering with some air throughout the evening. I noticed some murky scum floating around after that last shock. It has pretty much disappeared but the water still looks greenish. Not as bad, but definitely not clear. 2.5 hours later and the bromine and chlorine levels are still well over 10. (note, at this time I am just using test strips instead of my Taylor kit as it ran out of bromine test chemical, as I found out tonight). So, I think the best I can hope for is to find a clarifier to make the water less green, knowing that whatever is in the water is now nuked and harmless...? Any recommendations? My wife was really hoping to have a soak tomorrow night, so anything I can do to get this tub ready for then would be appreciated!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chem geek Posted October 19, 2012 Report Share Posted October 19, 2012 So if it's still green and the chlorine is now holding, then it's probably not algae since chlorine bleaches out the chlorophyll in algae. I would next guess that it's metals, but that usually only shows up if the pH is high. If you lower the pH and it lightens up, then it was metals (especially if the water is more of a clear green rather than cloudy green). Note that the pH test doesn't read accurately at high chlorine level, but your pH is probably not low and can just add some acid to see if the color changes (if you do test the pH now and it shows yellow, then it's low -- the high chlorine level would make the pH read falsely high, if anything). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curls Posted October 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2012 Thanks Chem Geek. I added about 2 tbsp dry acid and will check the levels of everything in the morning. I would explain the water as being semi-cloudy with a greenish tinge. I can easily see the highest jets but the second set, which is about 6-8" below the first set, is barely visible. Normally, we can easily see to the bottom 34" down or further. If the acid doesn't help and the bromine is still high (above 10ppm), what is the likely cause? How can I know if its safe, or unsafe? This biofilm... What is its typical impact on the various tests for bromine, ph, etc...? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterbear Posted October 19, 2012 Report Share Posted October 19, 2012 I follow the Bromine for Beginners and admittedly have been slacking off a bit with keeping on top of things lately. I would explain the water as being semi-cloudy with a greenish tinge. I can easily see the highest jets but the second set, which is about 6-8" below the first set, is barely visible. Normally, we can easily see to the bottom 34" down or further. Easy answer, you have algae because you did not keep up the sanitizer Bromine is NOT going to hold until you kill the algae (water is no longer green) Keep shockng every few hours (you will find the bromine level keeps dropping). When the algae is killed the water will no longer be green (but might be cloudy) and your bromine will be holding.IT has to be both, not one or the other! Doesn't matter if you shock with chlorine (bleach or the stuff from the supply store). However, a clarifier will not really help. Your filter will eventually filter the dead algae. I have seen clarifiers create more problems then they solve. AS far as being ready to soak tomorrow night, probably not. Your tub did not get into that condition in one day (be honest now) did it? It could take a few days or up to a week to clear. Consider it a lesson learned on checking on your tub weekly, including the tablets in the feeder (if you had been it would not have turned green with a 3 step bromine system) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arches2 Posted October 19, 2012 Report Share Posted October 19, 2012 it's possible that since your strips can only read to 10 on bromine that you shocked it much higher than 10 and it is still eating away at it but may you went from 25 to 12 overnight and it's really not holding, you just can't test it. I think WB has it and you're just going to have to keep at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curls Posted October 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2012 Checked this morning and it's looking less green and more of a tinted cloudy appearance. I can see down further than yesterday -- I can see the edges of the seat contours, etc. Smell is actually quite normal. The bromine level is now somewhere around 8-10 (again, only have strips at the moment). Chlorine is now at marginal levels (almost nil). pH is just above 7 (due to the acid from last night). TA and Calcuim are normal. So maybe I should have my wife shock it once more right now (I'm at work)... 3/4 bleach (normal shock)? Or another 2 cups super-mega shock? Thanks, Eric PS: Will try to post pics in a few minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curls Posted October 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2012 Pics from this morning: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chem geek Posted October 19, 2012 Report Share Posted October 19, 2012 OK, I was probably wrong (waterbear was right) and just impatient. The chlorine does seem to be oxidizing what was likely algae and now the cloudy stage just needs to get filtered out. If you are very impatient and don't mind spending more money you can use a good clarifier, but the water should clear on its own from filtration if you keep the pump running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterbear Posted October 19, 2012 Report Share Posted October 19, 2012 AS I said before, I have seen clarifiers do more harm than good. patience is a virtue! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanky Posted October 19, 2012 Report Share Posted October 19, 2012 If there is a need to get the tub back in service quickly, Hot tubs do have an advantage over pools. You can dump the water, decontaminate and start over. Yes this involves 2 water changes (Simply dumping the water without doing the decontamination will NOT work) but this can be done in as little as 1 day, 2 at the most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curls Posted October 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 To put some closure to this topic, we ended up shocking enough that the levels weren't dropping below about 8ppm bromine, so we figured we were safe to soak. No problems thus far. I did change the water on Sunday and am monitoring bromine consumption carefully for the next week to see if anything might have been in the piping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterbear Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 And hopefully lesson learned to check on the tub, test the water, check the floater, and shock weekly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curls Posted October 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 indeed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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