Supermasterpig Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Sounds kind of silly but it is a legit question I have. I share a house with three other guys, we are all in college and very active. One of my housemates plays collegiate baseball and always comes home sweaty, the other three of us daily hit the gym and go for runs and what not. My question is, is it okay for us to get into the hot tub all sweaty? Would it be wise to rinse off then get in? I know the sweat will produce more scum and I have ordered two scum bugs off ebay ($6 total). But does it make water harder to keep balanced or make it that much sooner I need to do a water change? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterbear Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Sweat and urine are almost identical chemically and will add to the organic load that the sanitizer has to oxidize. I don't think anyone would want to soak if everyone was peeing in the tub and getting in all sweaty is not that different! Then there is the feces that every bather adds no matter how clean they think they are. Bottom line, the spa is NOT a bathtub. Shower first! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotsprung Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Whilst I can't enforce it, I ask that all friends who use our tub to shower before they visit. We, including the kids, make sure we are "fresh" before we get in.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dnepr Dave Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Sweat and urine are not the same. There are far more toxins in urine, which is produced by the kidneys while they filter the blood. Sweat is produced to cool the body and contains mostly salt. Just throw a little more sanitizer in your spa after soaking while sweaty. Heck, just getting into a 102F spa will make you sweat, you just don't notice it, because you are already wet! It's not a big deal. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanky Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Bottom line, the spa is NOT a bathtub. Shower first! That just about sums things up perfectly!!! Without showering, you're placing a huge demand on the sanitization system, which will require higher levels to remain useful. You're also unnecessarily increasing the build-up of organic waste in the water which shortens the interval between water changes. Every gym I've ever been in had a shower facility, surely by college age, your friends have learned to use them!!! Additional Comment: I recall, from one of your previous posts, you often entertain female guests in which case you have to deal with a variety of lotions and make-up. I fully understand your reluctance to enforce strict policy (and yes scumbugs will help) but your male "housemates" are a different story. If you don’t mind taking advice from an old fart, I’d suggest you lay down the law and make it clear that failure to routinely shower before using the tub will result in suspension of tub privileges!! Including those times when “Special” guests are present. Put in those terms, I doubt you’ll have any problems getting the average college aged male to comply. Remember that us “Old Farts” have been around the block a few times and have learned a couple of things along the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterbear Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Sweat and urine are not the same. There are far more toxins in urine, which is produced by the kidneys while they filter the blood. Sweat is produced to cool the body and contains mostly salt. Just throw a little more sanitizer in your spa after soaking while sweaty. Heck, just getting into a 102F spa will make you sweat, you just don't notice it, because you are already wet! It's not a big deal. Dave Wrong! http://www.jbc.org/c.../3/781.full.pdf Chemical makeup is very similar, particularly in the nitrogenous compounds that form chloriamines, bromamines, and volatile oxidation by-products! Urine is more concentrated and does contain more solid matter but that does not mean that sweat does not present a problem! In reality is IS a big deal! Here are a few more references: http://www.cps.org.tw/docs/45-3%20109-115,%202002.pdf http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/02/080219161946.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supermasterpig Posted September 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Thanks for all the good advice! I am just as much to blame as they are when it comes to hopping in sweaty, I shall change my rule on that. Poor suckers will hate me when I take the hose *conveniently located near the tub* and spray them down for good measure. All in all though the temperature of water that comes out is around 75 or so thanks to my location being in the city. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dnepr Dave Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 Again, I have to disagree with Waterbear. Like I said earlier, you sweat a lot while you are in hot spa water, it makes little difference whether or not you are already sweaty before you get in the spa, you will sweat a whole lot more while you are in the spa. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterbear Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 You can disagree all you want but you are ignoring facts! You are stating an opinion. I am not. I am also not going to get into a debate about this because there is nothing to debate and I really do not have the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chem geek Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 We know that roughly speaking every person-hour of a relatively clean person soaking in a hot (104ºF) tub has a chlorine demand of 7 ppm FC in 350 gallons. This comes from a combination of: 1) contaminants that are quickly dissolved when you get in the tub, so any sweat, dirt, etc. There are also body lotions, sunscreen, or any other "products" one puts onto their skin. This amount can be reduced significantly from rinsing off first. 2) additional sweat and some additional urine that is mostly a function of how long one is in the tub 3) chlorine oxidation of swimsuits, skin, etc. which would occur even if one did not sweat and is a function of how long one is in the tub The question is whether item #1 is large enough to make a difference compared to items #2 and #3. I cannot speak for spas, but for pools studies show that showering before swimming cuts down chlorine demand by almost half. This is why some commercial/public pools require rinsing off before entering the pool. In pools with clean bathers it's roughly the equivalent of 3 ppm FC per 350 gallons so somewhat less than half that of spas, which makes sense due to the lower water temperatures. When people sweat, most of the components of their sweat including urea, ammonia (mostly), creatinine and amino acids all remain behind on the skin after the water evaporates. So if you work-out and sweat outside the spa, that full amount of nitrogenous chemicals will get introduced into the spa as soon as you enter it. I don't think one can readily compare the amount of sweat before getting in vs. the amount one generates while in the spa since it depends a lot on what you did to get sweaty before getting into the spa. The bottom line is that if one has a lot of known contaminants on their skin, be it lotions or the remnants of sweat, it would be better to rinse off first before entering the spa. You don't even have to "seem" sweaty for there to be benefit since whatever sweating you have done all day long will get put into the spa, except for those chemicals absorbed by underwear fabric. Of course, those of you experimentalists out there with your trusty FAS-DPD chlorine test kits can try this out yourself comparing your chlorine demand rinsing off first vs. not doing so and being sweaty or having lotions before you get into the spa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterbear Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 thanks chem geek! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dnepr Dave Posted September 9, 2012 Report Share Posted September 9, 2012 I won't break the bank to just add more sanitizer and clean the filter a little more often, we are talking pennies here. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chem geek Posted September 9, 2012 Report Share Posted September 9, 2012 Yeah, it's more of an issue for commercial/public pools where the bather load is high and the water volume is high so total cost is high. If it's just sweat, then it's just more chlorine demand though there may be some shortening of the time between water changes due to hard-to-oxidize organics that don't get caught in the filter, basically similar to increasing bather load. The amount of disinfection by-products will also be higher. If there are lotions used, then it's not only more cleaning of the filter, but some people report more foaming or scum lines (which can be wiped off). It's certainly a matter of degree and rinsing off before getting into a pool or spa is yet one more thing to do so it's certainly a convenience tradeoff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterbear Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 The point is, it's not about the money involved. It's about keeping your water quality up WITHOUT needed to retest and rebalance as much to keep it up. Which is easier, a quick rinse before getting in the tub or pulling out the test kit and the chemicals to fix the water and possibly needing to shock more often than usual? If you are looking for easy I think you will agree that the quick rinse is the way to go. It is true that everyone adds a lot of sweat to a tub (not to mention some urine and feces). to a small volume of water and that is the reason hot tub water chemistry is more tricky than swimming pool water chemistry. Why make it harder than it already is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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