abc123 Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 Just over a month ago I had my 325 gallon hot tub empty, cleaned and refilled it. I ran to our local pool store to get some liquid chlorine, I had been using the granules before and there was flakes of white stuff on the inside of my hot tub, so I thought liquid would be better. The man in the store told me he wouldn't put any chlorine in a hot tub, and took a picture of my white stuff to show someone else because he didn't know what it was. He told me to use bromine and sold me a bottle of it. He told me to shock it first with 3 tsp of bromine. and then 1 tsp about every other day. I have been doing what I was suggested. Lately I have been testing my water both pH and bromine levels and I'm not getting any color. I came here today to find out what I am doing wrong. I started with the sticky called New to Bromine by waterbear. That landed me here, I tested everything suggested this am, and all my tests came back clear...no color. I was able to tell that my TA is 270 . Now I think I need to follow the directions here and get my TA to 100. My heater has been on about a month, so the water is already hot. Do I have to drain it and start over again or turn the heat down a few days and then start this project? We are on well water and I tested for water hardness, I expected it to be hard but it just went clear right away. I am using a test kit called aqua chem. The expire dates on my chemicals is 2012 no month or date listed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterbear Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 Aquachem only makes test strips these days, the have not had a drop based test kit for several years now. Strips are useless. Follow the bromine for beginners sticky and you should be fine. Also, get a Taylor test kit as I suggest in the sticky. FWIW, you CAN use chlorine in a hot tub and if the dealer did not know that and could not identify the white flakes (which are likely calcium scale or salt deposits) then i would suggest finding a different dealer fast. If you want to use chlorine read up on the dichlor/beach method and for more info on lowering TA read this. Exactly what are the ingredients in your 'bromine'? Bromine is normally shocked with either MPS or chlorine to oxidize bromide ions into active bromine sanitizer. If you have a one step bromine product it is going to be mostly dichlor with a bit of sodium bromide. If you have granular sodium bromine you can add that unit the cows come home and you will not have any sanitizer in your tub until you shock it with chlorine or MPS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abc123 Posted June 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 I was given Spa Guard Sanitizer Brominating Concentrate One-Step sanitizer and Oxidizer. The print is way to small for me to see to tell you the ingredients. I have already found a new pool store we are in a small town, and just got a new store that I feel very comfortable in. I went to the Aqua-chem website today and found they only have strips anymore, also went to check out the one you recommended and plan to do that ASAP . I got this kit when I first got my hot tub, a few chemicals have been replaced with Taylor from the pool store as I ran out. There was some larger than a quarter white flakes, almost like a piece of plaster that fell off the wall. I had thought they were the granules i was using before, that's what made me think to go liquid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterbear Posted June 6, 2012 Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 Your Bromine product is mostly dichlor with a bit of sodium bromide and is from Bioguard. I would not recommend it since there is not advantage to this form of bromine over chlorine and it is more expenseive. Taylor reagents are NOT going to work in your Aquachem kit for a few reason, first and foremost the mixing cylinder uses a different size water sample that the Taylor one (I have that kit in my test kit collection and know it well, btw) The ONLY reagents that can be substituted with Taylor reagents are the CYA reagent and the OTO reagent. What exactly were the chlorine granules you were using before? Were the cal hypo or dichlor? You indicated above that your fill water has high TA so if you were using cal hypo I would suspect that the flakes are calcium carbonate that precipitated out of the water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abc123 Posted June 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 My hot tub was broken for quite some time, I found this great website and got awesome help getting it back up and running. Before it broke I was using Spa Time Chlorinating granules. I was adding about 1 tsp just about every day or two. While it was broke we left the water in it for fear of letting the pump sit with no water. The water didn't get tested every day while it wouldn't run, and adding chemicals were non existent since I couldn't run it to circulate the water. It had no power. Now I'm not sure if these conditions are what caused my flakes or not, but before it broke we were noticing that it got gritty on the surface of the hot tub. It wasn't until it was fixed and running again that I was advised to use the Bromine,and started using it. I didn't know you couldn't use the Taylor replacements in my kit, I just went to the pool store and asked that's what they sold me. So now I see that all of my readings were probably not right. Right now I am trying to hurry up and figure out what I want to use so I can buy the correct Taylor kit, since you have to buy one or the other. Today I lowered my TA and thought it was going well, but i did something wrong with my last dose of dry acid and now I'm at 50, when my target was 100. Using the Taylor drops my pH after lowering the TA is 7.6 (I know now that this is a wrong reading) Testing the TA with my kit and the original drops, since I never tested for TA before that has to be a correct reading. I did leave my water sample in the cylinder today and noticed that there is some type of settlement that has settled on the bottom of the CL/BR side. I noticed this also once last week. I don't normally leave it in long enough to notice if this has always happened or not. I have my water sample in both cylinders and the pH side has nothing settled at the bottom. Both sides have had the 5 Taylor drops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterbear Posted June 6, 2012 Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 How are you measuring the TA? If you are using the aquachem vial with taylor reagents it is a bogus reading. Just leave it where it is.for now. A TA of 50 is fine for a chlorine spa and workable for a bromine spa. If you are not sure whether you want to use bromine or chlorine then get the K-2006 test kit. IF you switch to bromine then just don't worry about testing CYA and when you test the sanitizer do the FC test only and multiply the results by 2.25 to get your bromine reading. (in other words you won't do the combined chlorine part of the test). As an example, you test and it gives you a FC reading of 2. Multiply that by 2.25 and you have a bromine reading of 4.5. IF you KNOW you are going to use bromine then the K-2106 is less expensive since it does not have the CYA test, the combined chlorine test, and the sanitizer titrant is a slightly different concentration so you don't need to multiply the results to get a bromine reading. However, the K-2006 will work just fine since the other tests are all identical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abc123 Posted June 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 I did the TA with the aqua chem reagents in the aqua chem test kit. I never used it before, just tested pH and chlorine in the past so the rest of the reagents were still sealed and marked to expire 2012. I have learned a bit here in the last few days, not a topic I would have picked out to learn but I do like my hot tub. So I guess I can learn it. what are the pro's and con's of a chlorine or bromine hot tub? can you shine a light on that for me? What are the 3 step bromine chemicals ? or is it 3 chemicals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterbear Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 Chlorine is less expensive but it does require daily attention or very close to it. If you use the tub a lot it is a good choice. 3 step Bromine is a bit more forgiving of being ignored for up to a week or slightly more so it is a better choice for tubs that are only used on weekends. Also, bromine has a wider range of acceptable pH and bromamines are effective (if not somewhat smelly) sanitizers as opposed to chloramines, which are somewhat irritating and undesirable. For chlorine you need a chlorine source and a stabilizer. Dichlor will add both chlorine and stabilizer so it is used first until the stabilizer is about 20-30 ppm then switch to unstabilized chlorine . Laundry bleach (sodium hypochlorite) is the most cost effective source and had the fewest undesirable side effects. Stabilizer (CYA) can also be added on filling and bleach used from the start instead of starting with dichlor. For bromine you need sodium bromide added on each fill to create the bromide bank in the water, an oxidizer to convert the bromide into bromine santizer (normally chlorine, MPS, or ozone or a combination. I prefer bleach once again here.) If you only use sodium bromide and an oxidizer you have two step bromine which requires almost daily attention just like chlorine and really has no advantage over chlorine. By adding bromine tabs in a floater you have three step bromine. The bromine tabs help maintain a constant sanitizer level in the water so you do not need to add sanitizer daily. You still need to shock (oxidize) every week or two, depending on tub usage. Chemicals for adjusting pH, TA, and calcium hardness are identical in both systems. My suggestion is to study bromine for beginners and dichlor/bleach in a nutshell and take it from there. Also, I am splitting your posts into their own thread since they really have gone far from just the topic of TA and deserve to be in their own thread! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abc123 Posted June 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 Thank you for my very own thread! I was sure I left it on my bookmarked page! LOL I am sorry for taking over the other page, it was an accident. In my mind this is the best website ever! I did my homework and studied the pages you suggested, and in the am I shall go order a Taylor K-2106 kit for my Bromine Hot Tub, I want to be sure I cant run up to my new in town pool store and get it in the am, so I have it quicker, along with a floater. I picked this because there are days I just cant make it home. I have one more question for next time I drain and refill: When we first got this hot tub it was at a time when we were adding whole house water filters on the house. We had a whole house carbon filter sitting here so we hooked it to the end of the hose and filled the hot tub with that filtered well water. Now if i got the hot tub a whole house carbon filter would that be just as good as the hot tub filters you buy to put on the end of the hose? My other option might be to get a super long hose and go from the water softener to the hot tub, that water has been filtered with carbon and sediment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterbear Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 If you fill with softened water then you will not need to worry about metals in the water. Also, if your water is very hard (over about 400 ppm Calcium Hardness) then filling iwth softened water and then adding some calcium chloride to bring the calcium hardness up to about 130 ppm is not a bad idea. The only caution is that you might deplete the softener and it will then need to be run through a recharge cycle after filling the tub (not a big deal). Carbon and sediment filters won't remove metals but if you do have sediment it would not hurt. The carbon filter removes mostly chlorine and chloramines so it really does not matter if your fill water goes through carbon or not. When you get your test kit test your fill water for calcium hardness and we can make a better decision as to filling with softened water or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abc123 Posted June 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 Ok I went to my trusted pool supply place today, they tell me that the test kits they have are Taylor made kits. The label says "Manufactured for Leslie's swimming pool supply by Taylor tech incorporated" . It gets complicated since none of them have the K- #### on them. So what do I look for to get the right kit? http://www.lesliespool.com/Home/Pool-Chemicals/Water-Testing/Test-Kits.html This is the page showing what they have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterbear Posted June 8, 2012 Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 IF you are going to buy form Leslie's you will be buying their relabeled K-2006, not a K-2106 (which they don't sell) and you will most likely need to order it online since they normally do not stock this particular kit in their stores. This is the Leslie's kit you want but the bad news is that this kit is often not stocked in the store and, as I said, must be ordered online. This is is a relabled K-2006 chorine test kit and Leslie's callis it the FAS-DPD Service test kit. . You do not want the DPD Complete, which is a relabeled K-2005 and what they normally stock in their stores. If you are going to use bromine then you will need to multiply the FC test results by 2.25 to convert it to a bromine reading and you will not need to do the CC test nor CYA test in a bromine spa since we don't use CYA with bromine.. You can get this same test kit from Amato Industries for under $50, btw. This is quite a bit less than Leslie's sells the kit for! If you want the K-2106, as you said above, you can't get this from Leslie's since they don't sell it. Amato does have it for $47.00. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abc123 Posted June 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 Just a note to let you know I ordered my Taylor kit online today, hope to have it soon. i ordered the K-2006, since my mind is still bouncing back and forth. I am ready with the floater and bromine tabs and the sodium bromide. Is it best to wait for the kit before adding the sodium bromide and the bromine tabs? In case I haven't already thanked you for all your help THANK YOU! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterbear Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 You can start following the instructions for three step bromine now with your current test kit. OTO will test total bromine so your aquachem test will work for now. If the comparator does not have a bromine scale just multiply the chlorine reading by 2.25 to get a bromine reading Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abc123 Posted June 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 I completed the instructions last night for the 3 step bromine. I also printed them out and posted it on my hot tub board for easy referral. Today my readings are as follows: TA is 60 ... should be 100 should I try to raise this with baking soda? BR is 3.4 ... 4 to 6 ppm should I add a little more sodium bromide? pH is 7.6 ... should be between 7.2 to 8.0 on the bottom of the page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterbear Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 I completed the instructions last night for the 3 step bromine. I also printed them out and posted it on my hot tub board for easy referral. Today my readings are as follows: TA is 60 ... should be 100 should I try to raise this with baking soda? Leave it here for now, its fine. When it drops below this to about 50 bump it up to 100 again. Don't raise it until it drops below 60 again. Pretty east! BR is 3.4 ... 4 to 6 ppm should I add a little more sodium bromide? IF you added the correct amount of sodium bromine on filling you just need to shock (use bleach) or open up the floater or feeder a bit to increase the bromine level. How are you getting a reading of 3.4 with an OTO test kit? The only test that will have that kind of precision is an FAS-SPS test for chlorine. Bromine does not have that much precision. pH is 7.6 ... should be between 7.2 to 8.0 on the bottom of the page pH is perfect. Don't worry about it until it climbs above 7.8-8.0 and then drop it down. Your new test kit will have an acid demand test that makes it easy to know how much acid to add to reach a specific pH. If you have been able to test your tub and balance the water you much not be getting the rain in Sarasota that we are getting in St. Johns county! You are doing great BTW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abc123 Posted June 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 (edited) It was where it says under BR 3.4 Haven't seen a drop of rain yet, it is very windy , the weather map looks like its going to go around us ..... again! I love rain I would take all of it, but it sure seems to pass us up lots. Thanks for the kudos's Edited June 10, 2012 by abc123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterbear Posted June 11, 2012 Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 Ok, your comparator is using the 2.25 conversion factor and rounding to 1 decimal point. That's fine. I usually just drop the decimal point and round off to the nearest whole number. I looked at my aquachem comparator and it is identical. I actually prefer the Taylor K-1000 OTO/pH tester for quick daily checks of santizer and pH and then use the "big kit" once a week or if the daily test shows something out of range. We have been getting every drop of rain since Beryl came through it seems. I'm getting tired of it already! Then again I live in between the Intercoastal and the Atlantic (very short block from Intercoastal and half block from Atlantic on the barrier island) so I guess that plays a part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abc123 Posted June 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 Hopefully my Taylor kit will be sent out Monday, maybe have it by the end of the week. I am anxious to see the calcium reading, since that is what I guessed the last problem was. Hope to avoid that path again. I was searching my photos to see if I still had a photo of it, must have deleted it. I am glad to be learning the correct way to balance the water, water looks good, feels good too! On to new beginnings! I had to go find St Johns County, your right every thing goes that way! Stay dry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterbear Posted June 11, 2012 Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 I had to go find St Johns County, your right every thing goes that way! Stay dry! Home of the Nation's Oldest City and the Fountain of Youth! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abc123 Posted June 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 We are in the the smallest big city in the state of Florida,near Warm Mineral Springs Fountain of Youth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abc123 Posted June 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 Calcium Hardness Test with my Taylor kit is 420 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterbear Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 Calcium Hardness Test with my Taylor kit is 420 It's on the high side of acceptable. If you keep your pH below 7.8 and your TA no higher then 80 ppm you should not have problems with scale. How do you like the Taylor kit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abc123 Posted June 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 I just watched a movie on how to do it so I need to do that over, it looked purple to me so I kept going till it looked blue to me. I see in the movie now i should have counted till purple. So I am going to redo it in the am since i don't remember what number i was on when i thought it was purple. How do I like it? At first i was a little scared of the beast but I will get the hang of it i'm sure, like purple to me means blue Ask me how I like it next month, takes me a while to get used to new things! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abc123 Posted June 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 well 400 is where it turns purple I got that number just in time before our big storm! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.