Need Help To Get The Bottom Of The Pool Clean

[YankeeDDL]

Hi there,

I'm new to the pool world and I need some help to get my pool clean.

I'm renting a house that has not been lived in for about 3 years.

The pool has been minimally maintained; it is now in bathable conditions, but there's still a lot of dirt/dust.

A short background:

- I started off with shocking the pool a couple of times. I only used pool-products, like chlorine tablets (slow dissolving) or powder (fast dissolving). The greenish on the walls was gone quite quickly, but the water was turbid

- I checked pH and Chloring levels. The chlorine was relatively high of course, and I adjusted the pH (which instead was VERY low) accordingly with pH increaser.

- I also had some troubles with a particular brand of chlorine (I'm living in Spain, the brand is PQS), which I found out was a "known" issue and replaced it

- I added in the evening a product (flocculant) to condense the dirt. In the morning, I found the edges of the bottom of the pool to be fairly dark with what loos like dust/dirt, and all over the bottom there is a dark ... blanket (not as dark as the edge, but noticeable)

- I started vacuuming the bottom of the pool 1 or 2 times a day. The area where I pass the vacuum becomes immediately noticeably cleaner (seems "perfect" actually), however ... the pool becomes turbid in a matter of 5~10minutes. At that point much of the dirt has lifted off the floor, so vacuuming is not effective. In 3~4hrs the dust settles again and I try to vacuum again

Some background info:

- the pool is about 13x20feet, and the depth goes from 4.6f to 6

- when the dust settles, I am able to see the bottom of the pool and distinguish the pattern of the tiles almost everywhere (not at the edges, where the dust is relatively thick, and not at its deepest spot)

- the filtering system uses a sandbox. Not sure about the pump's power, but I can find out if it's important

- the filter runs about 4.5hrs a day regularly, however, I always turn it on a couple of hours after I vacuum and after we bathe.

So here are the questions:

a) When I vacuum, I need to move relatively slowly, as moving the vacuum fast will result in the dust being lifted off around the vacuum handle anyway. I suppose that's normal, but could you confirm?

b ) I don't see any alternative in filtering the water and get it back in the pool from the 3 eye-jets (which I suppose have a more technical name), however, is there a way to reduce the ... stirring effect, while vacuuming?

c) I repeatedly wash the sand after vacuuming, end eject the water. This causes the water level to drop and I need to top off the pool (which is annoying ... and expensive). The first time I vacuumed I could clearly see gray water being injected back in the pool from the eye-jets. While washing the sand I look at a plastic, transparent cup where I see the water getting first very opaque, then slowly clear again.

Does it mean that the sand is to be replaced? The tank containing the sand is tightly sealed (of course): before I really make an effort to open it, I'd like to know if I can judge whether the sand is to be replaced or not

Another small bit of info: I have been doing this vacuuming for about 2 months. At first it seemed to help and the dust had reduced. Then there was some construction work nearby and some "clever" guy decided that the poolside was a good place to cut tiles. Needless to say by the time I had found out why the dust had suddenly increased again, I was back to square one.

d) Am I really supposed to do this much vacuuming to get the pool cleaned? I mean, this is taking A LOT of time. I have the feeling that the filtering is highly inefficient.

Any help is appreciated, thanks.

[PoolGuyNJ]

Fill the pool to the top of the skimmer. Use the Waste setting when vacuuming. Quit sending it to the filter. It is too much for it. Add water as needed. Rebalance as needed.

Scott

[jkusmier]

Agreed - you are overwhelming your sand filter very quickly. Check the valve on your filter. In your post you say that you wash the sand and then eject - what settings on the filter valve are you using to do this? Post the names of all the settings on your filter valve. There should be a setting to vacuum to waste - meaning the water bypasses the filter entirely and is just ejected. This setting will allow you to effectively remove all of the dirt and debris from your pool while vacuuming. Scott's advice about filling the pool to the brim is sound. You may even want to keep a running hose in the pool while vacuuming to waste - you're probably going to lose alot of water while vacuuming all of that debris from the pool bottom. You can then retest and rebalance.

[YankeeDDL]

Gentlemen,

thanks for your suggestions. I did not even know such option existed.

To answer jkusmier: the settings are:

Filter, Waste, Closed, Backwash, Recirculate, Rinse.

The valve is typically on Filter. When I wash the sand, I first set it on backwash, and then (when the cup shows clear water), on Rinse for a short time (like 5~10seconds).

I've taken a couple of snapshots of the pool's edge: here are the links (I hope you can see them).

This is at about 8pm, after the filtering has stopped at around 2pm, so the dist had time to settle for about 6hrs.

[YankeeDDL]

A neighbor suggested to use one of those semi-automatic machines to clean the pool's bottom.

He has one, and will lend it to me this weekend.

I suppose there are several types: I haven't seen his is but he described it as:

- it is self powered using the pressure of the water

- it is self contained, so that it ejects filtered water: this way the sand filter is totally bypassed

This may be an alternative: he claims that they cost in the order of 100eur these days so it may be an alternative to replacing the sand.

It might be that once the pool is really cleaned, then the current system will be enough to maintain the status-quo, without having to vacuum it twice a day ...

What do you think about those "robots"?

[PoolGuyNJ]

A pool sweep will not clean a dirty bottom. It will help you keep a clean bottom clean.

Vacuum the crud manually with the filter in Waste. Don't try to be exact, you're blowing out water. Get the vast majority. If you miss a spot, so what, there is still more worthwhile areas to spend the water on.

Remember to turn off the other suction sources. More suction for you to move efficiently. Don't try to go too fast however as this just kicks the gunk into suspension.

Scott

[jkusmier]

PoolGuyNJ is right on the money - you'll simply be wasting your time w/ a floor cleaner. Raise your water level and vacuum the worst to waste - and make sure to close off any floor drains so you maximize the suction from your vacuum.

Once done, it is imperative to backwash the filter for ~ 5 minutes, quite possibly longer, then rinse for 30-45 seconds. If you have a sight glass on the filter, you'll be able to view the clarity of the water during the backwash cycle. You may have to backwash for longer, or just repeat the cycle, until the backwash appears fairly clear. Be sure to turn the pump off before changing the settings on the multiport valve on the filter, then restart the pump. Changing the valve settings while the pump is running can damage the plumbing, laterals (components inside the filter) or the valve itself.

Given the circumstances (house has been vacant for 3 years, pool wasn't really maintained and you've been vacuuming alot of gunk through your sand filter) I would highly recommend that you buy some filter cleaner/degreaser and use it. You want something that will dissolve organic buildup (think body oils, sunblock, etc) as well as calcium deposits in the sand. These significantly reduce the performance of a sand filter. You add the cleaner/degreaser slowly and directly to the skimmer well - BUT ONLY while the filter valve is set to backwash. You may need to repeat the process.

Finally, as a general rule of thumb, you should backwash and rinse a sand filter once a month. Excessive backwashing can dull the edges of the silica sand, hence reducing the sand's filtering performance. In fact, you may find that the sand in your filter needs to be replaced (it usually needs to be replaced every 5-7 years). If you don't want to replace it yourself, it is a fairly inexpensive job for a pool company to perform, and is well worth the cost.

[jkusmier]

That's a handsome pool. I would replace the sand if necessary - it's pretty inexpensive and once done you'll have a good, working filter - which is an absolutely essential item that cannot be replaced by a robotic cleaner. Once your bottom is clean you should not have to vacuum twice a day - maybe twice a week. I don goggles, remove the skimmer net from my pole and am able to clean insects, leaves and most any other debris from the bottom between vacuumings in just a few minutes.

[YankeeDDL]

My plan is to keep vacuuming 1 or 2 times a day till saturday.

Friday evening I'll add additonal flocculant to ensure that all the dust is deposited by saturday morning.

Saturday I'll borrow the machine and pass it on the bottom anyway.

Once that's done, I'll asses the situation. I am inclined to replace the sand: it seems to me that the filtering is lousy, at best.

Perhaps I'll try to use the sand-cleaning product suggested by jkusimer, however, if the cost of changing the sand alltogether is comparable, I might go for it right away.

I'll post an update over the weekend, just FYI.

For now, many many thanks for your help and suggestions.

[jkusmier]

I strongly recommend vacuuming, by hand, to waste on Saturday. The robotic cleaner is simply no substitute for vacuuming. Since you flocked, you have an opportunity to solve the immediate problem of a dirty bottom by vacuuming to waste - take it! Don't aim for 100% - 90% will do. Just take care to vacuum slowly, the head tends to pull off the bottom when pulling it toward you.

Use of a filter cleaner/degreaser is recommended once or twice a year to remove oily and calcium buildups, or to clean a sand filter after a job like that you have on your hands. That said - and as you suggested - you probably need to replace the sand. Once you vacuum the bottom to waste and replace the sand you'll be worry-free.

[YankeeDDL]

Gentlemen,

so the experiment with the "robot" was a bit of a fiasco.

To start with, the "robot" was infact more an automatic vacuum than anything: no wheels, it was a large suction cup with a balancer that gets it moving around the pool (also on the walls).

The issue was the same though: the moment we started the process, the water started stirring and the dust lifting off.

There was some new learning though:

- as I mentioned, I had added quite a bit of flocculant. I suppose this was related to a whole lot of white-ish ... gunk that was stuck on the wall and started floating off. It seems to indicate some sort of chemical reaction going on. Obvious you think: you're putting something in the pool (the flocculant), however, while I would expect something going on with the dust, I did not expect all of this whiteish stuff. To give you an idea, by scrubbing the walls with the hand, you could see white ... powder being released into the water. Does this sound in any way familiar?

- perhaps is a secondary effect of the flocculant, but the water seemed very ... dense. Some bubbles of air, injected every now and then by the jets, seemed to take some time to make it to the surface. I realize that this is rather qualitative, but I'm not sure how else to describe it.

In any case, after a bit over an hour of fairly pointless vacuuming attempt, I let the dust settle again and vacuumed to waste.

Of course, "luck" wanted that the regular vacuum broke in the middle of it, making it that much more complicated, however I got quite a bit of stuff out. The water level dropped just below the skimmer. That's quite a bit ... but at least I won't see much of the dust again ...

Tomorrow, I'll see if there's still a lot of stuff, I'm thinking of doing another vacuum to waste, at least at the edges of the pool. Otherwise a "regular" vacuuming. The flocculant should have its effect still.

By the way, how do I judge when it is "safe" to bathe again after putting the flocculant?

Thanks.

[YankeeDDL]

Oh, I forgot to mention: I'm nearly convinced to replace the sand.

I suppose it's a fairly simple process of scooping the sand from the tank and putting clean one in its place. Seems simple enough to do it myself: what do you think?

[jkusmier]

Refill the pool to the top of the walls before starting again - and have a running hose in the pool when you begin vacuuming to waste. You're going to suck alot of water from the pool while cleaning the bottom. Don't brush the walls - vacuum them once you're done w/ the bottom. It's a bit awkward but can be done. You may have to go over it once or twice to get everything. Your description of the effects of the flocculant seems normal.

You can search this forum or the internet (including Youtube) for info and vids about replacing the sand. You cannot scoop it out - you'll need a shop vac and a garbage can. You want to be very careful not to damage the laterals (thin perforated pipes that are attached to the bottom of the standpipe). If you damage them you must replace them. In any event, you will want to inspect them before refilling the filter - if you observe any damage you must replace them.

Use only #20 silica sand - it is white, and looks nothing like the sand you'll find in a sandbox at a playground.

If you're not comfortable doing it yourself, call a local pool store to do it for you.

You should replace your filter gauge and the o-ring on the multiport at this time. Once done you'll be good to go.

[Wizzard of spas]

Hi there,

I'm new to the pool world and I need some help to get my pool clean.

I'm renting a house that has not been lived in for about 3 years.

The pool has been minimally maintained; it is now in bathable conditions, but there's still a lot of dirt/dust.

A short background:

- I started off with shocking the pool a couple of times. I only used pool-products, like chlorine tablets (slow dissolving) or powder (fast dissolving). The greenish on the walls was gone quite quickly, but the water was turbid

- I checked pH and Chloring levels. The chlorine was relatively high of course, and I adjusted the pH (which instead was VERY low) accordingly with pH increaser.

- I also had some troubles with a particular brand of chlorine (I'm living in Spain, the brand is PQS), which I found out was a "known" issue and replaced it

- I added in the evening a product (flocculant) to condense the dirt. In the morning, I found the edges of the bottom of the pool to be fairly dark with what loos like dust/dirt, and all over the bottom there is a dark ... blanket (not as dark as the edge, but noticeable)

- I started vacuuming the bottom of the pool 1 or 2 times a day. The area where I pass the vacuum becomes immediately noticeably cleaner (seems "perfect" actually), however ... the pool becomes turbid in a matter of 5~10minutes. At that point much of the dirt has lifted off the floor, so vacuuming is not effective. In 3~4hrs the dust settles again and I try to vacuum again

Some background info:

- the pool is about 13x20feet, and the depth goes from 4.6f to 6

- when the dust settles, I am able to see the bottom of the pool and distinguish the pattern of the tiles almost everywhere (not at the edges, where the dust is relatively thick, and not at its deepest spot)

- the filtering system uses a sandbox. Not sure about the pump's power, but I can find out if it's important

- the filter runs about 4.5hrs a day regularly, however, I always turn it on a couple of hours after I vacuum and after we bathe.

So here are the questions:

a) When I vacuum, I need to move relatively slowly, as moving the vacuum fast will result in the dust being lifted off around the vacuum handle anyway. I suppose that's normal, but could you confirm?

b ) I don't see any alternative in filtering the water and get it back in the pool from the 3 eye-jets (which I suppose have a more technical name), however, is there a way to reduce the ... stirring effect, while vacuuming?

c) I repeatedly wash the sand after vacuuming, end eject the water. This causes the water level to drop and I need to top off the pool (which is annoying ... and expensive). The first time I vacuumed I could clearly see gray water being injected back in the pool from the eye-jets. While washing the sand I look at a plastic, transparent cup where I see the water getting first very opaque, then slowly clear again.

Does it mean that the sand is to be replaced? The tank containing the sand is tightly sealed (of course): before I really make an effort to open it, I'd like to know if I can judge whether the sand is to be replaced or not

Another small bit of info: I have been doing this vacuuming for about 2 months. At first it seemed to help and the dust had reduced. Then there was some construction work nearby and some "clever" guy decided that the poolside was a good place to cut tiles. Needless to say by the time I had found out why the dust had suddenly increased again, I was back to square one.

d) Am I really supposed to do this much vacuuming to get the pool cleaned? I mean, this is taking A LOT of time. I have the feeling that the filtering is highly inefficient.

Any help is appreciated, thanks.

This is a very common problem. I would first suggest that you have the sand changed out in the filter. Old sand particles become rounded after much wear: Three to four years at max on sand, you mught try Zeo sand, more surface area to capture fine particles. If you are vacuuming , and see fog, coming back int the pool stop what you are doing and back wash. You should start filling the pool first thing when you go to do your vac set up, as you know your are going to be back washing. There are clairifier products that you can add to the water that will make the finer particles better collect in the filter. New sand , and clarifier. Next time do not let your pool get away from you.