What's all the fuss about ozone?

[Guest SpaShopper]

Several of the sales pitches we have heard have offered to "throw in the ozone feature" or something like that, but no one has really explained what that is and why we would want it -- whether thrown in, or purchased as an extra feature, what's it all about?

Thanks in advance -- this is such a helpful forum!

[Chas]

Ozone is an oxidizer. It does some of the job so your sanitizer has less of a job to do.

It does not replace sanitizer - you still have to have some - but less of it.

pH and TA must still be tested and adjusted.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Ozone is an oxidizer. It does some of the job so your sanitizer has less of a job to do.

It does not replace sanitizer - you still have to have some - but less of it.

pH and TA must still be tested and adjusted.

CD ozonators are a big advantage over the cheaper UV type (less output).

[TBK]

o3 is created naturally by mother nature sun and lightning. Replicating o3 in water suspends bacteria from growing. But it does not kill bacteria wich some will tell you. You still need to use some sort of sanitizer. Some companies have attempted to gas off o3 by using a gas off chamber. but to effectively nutralize the gas you would need a 10 ft pvc pipe vertical in order to return the gas back to o2. Have not seen any company doing that. Plus it would not look appealing having that visual near your spa. spatech is correct in saying cd is better that uv bulb. because it is more reliable and produces more result.

TBK.

[Dr. Spa]

On account of I like to plays devils advocate, and give people a bad time (sometimes)...........

Replicating o3 in water suspends bacteria from growing. But it does not kill bacteria wich some will tell you.

According to the EPA and their Alternative Disinfectants and Oxidants Guidance Manual (all 360+ pages) ozone does kill bacteria................. Do you have some information that the EPA does not? Please provide a link to this data.

but to effectively nutralize the gas you would need a 10 ft pvc pipe vertical in order to return the gas back to o2.

2 questions here..... where do you get this 10" number from? and. What makes you think ozone reverts back to O2 ?????

Oh......... I'll help ya out here. only because I can copy and paste this (sorry, but I do type slowly);

Ozone is O³, three atoms of oxygen combined. It's very unstable and has a "half life". In hot water the half life is about 20 minutes, in air about 2 hours (temperature has an effect on the half-life time). HALF LIFE: in air, every 2 hours 1/2 of the ozone molecules break down in to one O² molecule AND 1 oxygen atom. More danger exists from this single atom than from ozone. A single oxygen atom is called a "free radical". In simple terms, free radical atoms do not exist. They HAVE to attach to, or combine with something else. Now many would like you to believe that this oxygen atom will combine with another oxygen atom and form O² (oxygen). Problem is, there aren't really many other single oxygen atoms to combine with. 80% of our atmosphere is nitrogen and is most likely what the single oxygen atom will combine with. The result is NOx, or nitroxides . As you can tell, NOx are produced as by-product almost every time when ozone is produced from air. NOx is toxic and one of the signs of toxicity is throat irritation. Secondly, the sensitivity to NOx is very individual. It is estimated that approximately 10-15% of population is sensitive to these substances to a point that they can not tolerate even very tiny amounts.

[Chas]

A high-output ozone system WILL create nitric acid in the return line - I wonder if this is the end result of the Nox? I can't believe that UL would list a item which puts Nox in high concentrations in the bather area.

[Amanda]

Dr. Spa.... You are awsome! Your input on the ozonater was great! Thank you!

In my opinion, the ozonater is a great addition for an inexpensive add-on or free throw-in. It definately reduces the need for as much chemicals (by using O3) but it is not cure-all by any means. Maintenance is still required: water changes 3-4 times a year, balancing alkalinity (TA) and Ph, Calcium (in some areas) and a few other things. I would check with the company you are looking to purchase from and get all the details of exactly what is required to maintain the water from set-up to a water change including any maintenance required for the ozonater itself. Some CD (corona discharge) ozonaters require replacing a micro chip fairly often and some UV bulbs do not last very long. There are definately good quality ozone systems available... bulbs that last 5-7 years and CD's that do not need chip replacement very often. You may want to check into what they are offering especially if it is free or included in the spa.

[ScubaCurt]

I've read enough to know that an ozonator is considered by most to be a plus to a hot tub but how can you tell when it goes bad? What is the usual lifespan of a cd ozonator? I know with the uv you can see the little blue light.

[Dr. Spa]

I know with the uv you can see the little blue light.

This is completely untrue, and one the most misbelieved facts of UV ozone. The frequency the UV bulb must operate at to produce ozone is VERY specific. From the time the UV bulb is turned on, the frequency starts changing, and it produces less and less ozone. Generally after 10,000 hours of operation the bulb is producing virtually no ozone (note, the human nose can detect ozone in as small a quantity as 5 parts per BILLION)......... Yet it will still a glow blue color for many more thousands of hours.

[Chas]

Yes Doc - that is so true! I have run into lots of people who have a glowing UV bulb which is ten years old and they claim that it is still making O3. Not.

9000 hours is typical, and at 24 hours per day that is just over a year.

[Dr. Spa]

I almost forgot.......... Every time a UV bulb turns on, the electrical surge adds 3 to 4 hours of "usage" to the bulb.

[robin]

but do i really need an ozonator. i have had an old hot tub with 4 jets! for 18 years without one. it takes alittle more work chemical wise but i always have clean clear water even after a party. what are the disadvantages to an ozonator?

[Chas]

What is the usual lifespan of a cd ozonator?

Sorry I didn't catch this very good question earlier:

The answer is twofold: the smaller Chip-type CD ozonators must have the chip replaced at about 9000 hours of operation, or when they stop glowing. This would include such units as the GEM, Del Eclipse, CalZone, and similar units.

The HotSpring unit has a much bigger chamber which has a life expectancy of around ten years.

[ScubaCurt]

The answer is twofold: the smaller Chip-type CD ozonators must have the chip replaced at about 9000 hours of operation, or when they stop glowing. This would include such units as the GEM, Del Eclipse, CalZone, and similar units.

The HotSpring unit has a much bigger chamber which has a life expectancy of around ten years.

Just to show my ignorance on the subject, I thought the ozonator ran all the time. Apparently not. How much does it run per day.

If the HotSpring unit is that much better then why hasn't the other tubs jumped on the band wagon also. Personally I'd pay more to get a unit that was going to last twice as long. In the long run it would seem to definitely be worth the extra money.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Just to show my ignorance on the subject, I thought the ozonator ran all the time. Apparently not. How much does it run per day.

If the HotSpring unit is that much better then why hasn't the other tubs jumped on the band wagon also. Personally I'd pay more to get a unit that was going to last twice as long. In the long run it would seem to definitely be worth the extra money.

If you have a circulation pump that runs 24/7 then ozone does as well. If you don't have a circ pump but instead use a 2-speed pump for filtration then ozone runs the amount of filtering time you set (typically 4-8 hrs/day).

People sometimes want ozone but price is a consideration to some. UV systems are the cheapest but CD is better. As Chas noted, not all CDs are alike so the one he's talking about obviously costs more than the basic CD types. It depends on what you're willing to spend but I'm an ozone fan because I've seen what it can do for you (at the same time, it HELPS keep the water clean but it is not the be all and end all).

[Chas]

Yes, there obviously IS a difference. I have a local dealer who puts 'free' ozone on every spa he sells, just because he knows I don't. I lose a few sales a year to the guy over it, but the people end up with an ozone which doesn't put out as much, and which will not run without the chip replacement.

But they got their "Free Ozone."

[thestallion]

Yes Doc - that is so true! I have run into lots of people who have a glowing UV bulb which is ten years old and they claim that it is still making O3. Not.

9000 hours is typical, and at 24 hours per day that is just over a year.

And the good Doctor wrote:

This is completely untrue, and one the most misbelieved facts of UV ozone. The frequency the UV bulb must operate at to produce ozone is VERY specific. From the time the UV bulb is turned on, the frequency starts changing, and it produces less and less ozone. Generally after 10,000 hours of operation the bulb is producing virtually no ozone (note, the human nose can detect ozone in as small a quantity as 5 parts per BILLION)......... Yet it will still a glow blue color for many more thousands of hours.

I am surprised by you two old respected pros to both miss this one. It has been learned that the UV bulb in fact never lost its ability to produce ozone BUT that the ballast that was used to light the bulb was coating the bulbs with oil and after a year or so of use it yielded the bulb to be ineffective. Using a solid state/plasma cell to light the uv bulb the ozone drop off was basically unmeasurable even up to 7 years.

[Chas]

Well, that's interesting. When I did sell ozone for Non-Hotspring tubs, I have used the Delzone unit wich has the bulb serarate from the ballast, and it still stopped putting out ozone long before the bulb stopped lighting: about two years at most. Sorry the image doesn't line up better, but you can see the division: the part with the word "Delzone" is the ballast area, and there is a bulkhead separating it from the other chamber which has the light in it. Good design: you can replace whichever part you need to.

I will have to look into this.

Regardless, the cost of CD is dropping - I think they will replace UV.

[Dr. Spa]

I've never heard of ballast oil coating the UV bulb either, In fact, most ozonators I remember looking inside of the ballast was always separated from the bulb. If not, the ozone would dissolve the plastic insulation on the wiring pretty quickly.

[Tyler]

Chas,

Who makes the ozone system for Hotspring? I'm assuming they buy it from someone else and put their label on it? Not to be cheap, but my dealer wants about $500 to install the HS version on my spa. I can't afford $500 so is it possible to buy the unit direct and install it myself? If this isn't possible do you recommend the cheaper Delzone? How much do those run?

Well, that's interesting. When I did sell ozone for Non-Hotspring tubs, I have used the Delzone unit wich has the bulb serarate from the ballast, and it still stopped putting out ozone long before the bulb stopped lighting: about two years at most. Sorry the image doesn't line up better, but you can see the division: the part with the word "Delzone" is the ballast area, and there is a bulkhead separating it from the other chamber which has the light in it. Good design: you can replace whichever part you need to.

I will have to look into this.

Regardless, the cost of CD is dropping - I think they will replace UV.

[Chas]

Tyler,

First off, if you don't want to spend $500 on the ozone, don't. Ozone is not a must, and it can be added later as well. However, Your spa experience will still be good - you will simply be adding a teaspoon or two of Dichlor each time you exit the spa, or using a floater or other method of keeping things clean and clear. Our dealership sells about half of our spas with ozone these days, but its not because I push them: there is another dealer in the area who makes a big push on Ozone so people come in my door thinking they must have it.

As far as price goes - there is a real difference in what you get. There are some inexpensive units on the market which truly are poor performers.

If you would like ozone but would like to pay less, you can ask your dealer to get you a Del Spa Eclipse. Looks like this:

And can be ordered with the appropriate power cord to plug right into the HotSpring/Tiger River spas. You can order these online and install them yourself too. If you don't mind installing a new cell every year - which sell for around $60 to $70 each - you can get by for less up front. If you have to pay for labor to have these cells replaced forget it. But, its not a big job to install the cell, you could ask the dealer to do it the first time and watch. Once you see it done you will realize how easy it is. Also, if the unit fails after the one-year warranty, you'll be out less money...

As to the unit which HotSpring installs: Del makes it for them, but doesn't sell it direct - though I have seen them for sale in Australia for some strange reason...

But Del does offer it's new "Platinum Spa Eclipse" which looks a bit different and appears to use the same huge platinum cell which is 'rated for 15,000 hours.' Looks like this:

But be aware - the Del Platinum unit ends up costing, well let's just say that I have seen it for sale at about the same price you mentioned above. You get what you pay for.

One last item: none of these systems pay for themselves in chemical savings. Most people use MPS and a Silver Ion cartridge with ozone, only using chlorine as a shock once or twice per month. Those chemicals cost far more than simply using Dichlor. And if you do a Dichlor regimen correctly, it is very easy and will not have a heavy chlorine smell.

[spa-freak]

Chas,

Thanks for your recent post--very helpful. So, let me see if i got this right...if if i got the Del Spa Eclipse, I have to change the CD chip every year, but with the Platinum (which costs more) I don't have that replacement?

Do you recommend the Platinum for the HS Grandee? and do you know if this voids any part of the warranty?

thanks in advance for any thoughts

spa-freak

[Chas]

Freak,

Yes, there is a warranty issue. If you add a third-party ozone system the factory will not cover any damage that it does. It would not be accurate to say it "voids" the warranty, because they will still fix things which are not related to the ozone system. But if the unit somehow does something to your spa - that damage will be up to you to take care of. I have seen one unit installed by a pool guy which simply ran far more electrical current than the control system was designed for, and it did smoke a relay or some other part of the main board. The customer paid for the board and the labor to install it.

But that was a rare thing: usually third-party ozone systems put out far less ozone, and draw the same or less current than the board is designed to handle so there is no problem. HotSpring is not looking for ways NOT to cover you, they are reasonable in that they will simply not fix something that wasn't their fault.

As to the chip replacement: yes. The Eclipse unit uses a little chip which you either pay to have replaced, or replace yourself.

The "Platinum" unit does not require this - and is rated at 15,000 hours. I have our version of that unit go much longer than 15,000 hours, but I have not seen many of the Eclipse units go much beyond the 9000 hour rating.

Here are the two ozone-making parts side by side for comparison. Please NOTE that they are not to scale: the chip on the right is tiny(1 5/8" long) compared to the (4" long) chamber on the left. I can't remember the right html coding to get the pictures to the correct size but I'll work on it:

[stl-rex]

Out of curiousity, if you are adding ozone after the fact, are you at a minimum, adding a mixing chamber to keep the ozone in contact with the water longer before releasing into the spa shell water where it will rise immediately to the surface and be of no use? I would think an OEM design from HS would include that. I'm not sure aftermarket does. Chas - can you comment further to help this person? I would see little reason to add it otherwise, but could see a benefit from getting an OEM system if the OEM system includes more than "just an ozonator".

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Out of curiousity, if you are adding ozone after the fact, are you at a minimum, adding a mixing chamber to keep the ozone in contact with the water longer before releasing into the spa shell water where it will rise immediately to the surface and be of no use? I would think an OEM design from HS would include that. I'm not sure aftermarket does. Chas - can you comment further to help this person? I would see little reason to add it otherwise, but could see a benefit from getting an OEM system if the OEM system includes more than "just an ozonator".

I would add ozone to a spa if it is "ozone ready" which is the assumption here I believe. Meaning the spa has some XX length of hose in place already and all you have to do is cut the line, install the injector, attach the ozonator and plug it in. If it is not ozone ready then you need to add the length of hose as well as the injector and the ozonator.