Need Help With The Taylor K2106 Test Kit

[partyboy]

Ok, I got my new kit and am having issues with the CH test. I tested my fill water and got 40ppm. When I test a sample from the spa and add the indicator my sample stays blue/purple and never goes red to indicate the presence of Calcium. I added roughly 5oz by volume calcium chloride dihydrate and got the same results.

My tub is around 380 gallons.

I have added borates to 50ppm and 4lbs Epsom salt (approx 1200ppm).

at the time of testing my specs were:

PH 7.8

CH ?- sample wouldn't turn red-stayed blue

TA 120

BROMINE 3.5

I'm wondering if my calcium test is being influenced by other chemicals (borates, epsom salt) in my tub.

[waterbear]

The problem is the epsom salt, which is magnesium sulfate. You have increased your total hardneThe first step of the test is adding the 20 drops of sodium hydroxide to precipitate the magnesium as magnesium hydroxide so the titration only tests for calcium BUT what you are seeing is the purple interference since there is more magnesium than the test is designed for since you have overloaded your spa with magnesium hardness by an amount that is far overshadowing your calcium hardness and sending your total hardness off the scale!

You are trying to test something that is beyond the scope of your test kit.

Why are you adding epsom salt to your spa? It's a spa, not a mineral bath nor a chemistry experiment! Ever wonder why epsom salts are NOT a normal spa additive? Realize that you are not only adding magnesium but also sulfate in large quantities and epsom salt has been linked to higher corrosion rates.

[partyboy]

The problem is the epsom salt, which is magnesium sulfate. You have increased your total hardneThe first step of the test is adding the 20 drops of sodium hydroxide to precipitate the magnesium as magnesium hydroxide so the titration only tests for calcium BUT what you are seeing is the purple interference since there is more magnesium than the test is designed for since you have overloaded your spa with magnesium hardness by an amount that is far overshadowing your calcium hardness and sending your total hardness off the scale!

You are trying to test something that is beyond the scope of your test kit.

Why are you adding epsom salt to your spa? It's a spa, not a mineral bath nor a chemistry experiment! Ever wonder why epsom salts are NOT a normal spa additive? Realize that you are not only adding magnesium but also sulfate in large quantities and epsom salt has been linked to higher corrosion rates.

Thanks for the explanation Waterbear. Things are making a lot more sense to me now. I now also understand why my TH reading on the test strips is a lot higher since adding the salt. I read about the high sulfates of Epsom but figured I would be ok if I didn't overdo it. I like salt because it takes longer for me to get pruney. I also came across several hippie web sites claiming that Epsom is a cure all. I knew Epsom was the least desirable salt choice for a spa but wanted to give it a try and see what happens. I will try regular pool salt next time. For me it is kind of an ongoing chemistry experiment.

[Itchy and Scratchy]

I add 1500 ppm pool salt to my tub. No problems with the Taylor test readings. Thanks for posting you results as I now know not to use espom salts in the future. I think dead sea salts would be nice but the pool salts are very cheap $8 for 40 lbs.

[partyboy]

I add 1500 ppm pool salt to my tub. No problems with the Taylor test readings. Thanks for posting you results as I now know not to use espom salts in the future. I think dead sea salts would be nice but the pool salts are very cheap $8 for 40 lbs.

Ha! my pool salt was on sale for $4.00/40lbs.

[waterbear]

solar water softener salt is usually the least expensive way to go (and, except for the size of the sodium chloride crystals, is identical to pool salt.)

[footie]

solar water softener salt is usually the least expensive way to go (and, except for the size of the sodium chloride crystals, is identical to pool salt.)

But long term what will the effect of all this salt do to the equipment?

I have pool salt for my pool but as yet have been reluctant to add it to the tub because of the above fear.

[Itchy and Scratchy]

There is a small risk of corrosion depending on the quality of the manufactures parts. According to chem geeck most tubs should be fine with levels of salt in the 1000 to 1500 ppm range. SWCG require double this amount of salt. There is a recent post were he goes into the chemistry of all this with body/muscle chemisty in the title, look it up. Still it might void the warranty on a newer tub. I got my tub used 5 y/o so not an issue for me. Call your manufacture and ask them what they think.

[PoolSpaNewb]

Hello again all,

Dont mean to hijack/revive an old thread, but ...

I have been using test strips to keep my water balanced. Thus far, its been a slight challenge but I feel it hasnt been too bad.

However, I have purchased a K2106. I read through the book and got a quick question regarding topping up of chemicals. Lets take page 59 as a reference. It has the matrix chart on it for ALK. So, on the lid, its got the 5 steps for testing ALK. Step 5 says "multiply drops in step 4 by 10." Lets assume that I put in 6 drops x 10 = 60 = 60ppm. Now, I go to the chart on page 59. I find 60ppm. It shows 5.38oz next to it.

My question is .. if I want to raise the TA to 80ppm, how much soda ash do I add? The amount that is beside the 80ppm (7.17oz) or the difference between the two (1.79oz).

I think I know the answer but I just want to make sure before I start testing and wasting reagents.

Thanks a ton all.

[waterbear]

Hello again all,

Dont mean to hijack/revive an old thread, but ...

I have been using test strips to keep my water balanced. Thus far, its been a slight challenge but I feel it hasnt been too bad.

However, I have purchased a K2106. I read through the book and got a quick question regarding topping up of chemicals. Lets take page 59 as a reference. It has the matrix chart on it for ALK. So, on the lid, its got the 5 steps for testing ALK. Step 5 says "multiply drops in step 4 by 10." Lets assume that I put in 6 drops x 10 = 60 = 60ppm. Now, I go to the chart on page 59. I find 60ppm. It shows 5.38oz next to it.

That is the amount of baking soda required to raise the TA by 60 ppm in 400 gallon water. The next column shows 13.4 oz which is how much baking soda is required to raise the TA by 60 ppm in 1000 gallons of water. This table has absolutely NOTHING to do with how many drops of titratant you needed in the test and is totally independent of it!

My question is .. if I want to raise the TA to 80ppm, how much soda ash do I add?

You don't add soda ash (sodium carbonate), you use baking soda (sodium bicarbonate). How much to add depends on how much water you are talking about. Referring to the same table you referenced above it would be 1.79 oz per 400 gallons of water (look on the line next to the 20 ppm). This is how treatment tables work. Your test results tell you where you are and the table then tells you how much to add.

The amount that is beside the 80ppm (7.17oz) or the difference between the two (1.79oz).

If you READ the heading of the first column it says: "Desired increase in ppm". This is how much you want to increase the level from WHERE YOU CURRENTLY ARE, which you indicated is 60 ppm. You also indicated that you want to increase that by 20 ppm so you end up at 80 ppm so you read the line that is for a 20 ppm increase. It's really pretty simple.

I think I know the answer but I just want to make sure before I start testing and wasting reagents.

Thanks a ton all.

It's really no different than when you were testing with strips and the levels were not where you wanted them. The test tells you where you currently are and then you look up in a table or use a calculator to see how much to add to move the level by the desired amount FOR THE AMOUNT OF WATER YOU ARE DEALING WITH.

The ONLY tables in the book that are based on the number of drops used are the acid and base demand tables used with the acid and base demand tests (which are not used that often). In these tables you look up the drops of demand reagent used to determine how much acid or soda ash is needed to move the pH by a certain amount. (You can also substitute borax for soda ash in the base demand test by using twice the weight of borax, the advantage being borax will raise pH without messing up the TA. Soda ash will raise pH and usually causes TA to go way too high).

[PoolSpaNewb]

Hello again all,

Dont mean to hijack/revive an old thread, but ...

I have been using test strips to keep my water balanced. Thus far, its been a slight challenge but I feel it hasnt been too bad.

However, I have purchased a K2106. I read through the book and got a quick question regarding topping up of chemicals. Lets take page 59 as a reference. It has the matrix chart on it for ALK. So, on the lid, its got the 5 steps for testing ALK. Step 5 says "multiply drops in step 4 by 10." Lets assume that I put in 6 drops x 10 = 60 = 60ppm. Now, I go to the chart on page 59. I find 60ppm. It shows 5.38oz next to it.

That is the amount of baking soda required to raise the TA by 60 ppm in 400 gallon water. The next column shows 13.4 oz which is how much baking soda is required to raise the TA by 60 ppm in 1000 gallons of water. This table has absolutely NOTHING to do with how many drops of titratant you needed in the test and is totally independent of it!

My question is .. if I want to raise the TA to 80ppm, how much soda ash do I add?

You don't add soda ash (sodium carbonate), you use baking soda (sodium bicarbonate). How much to add depends on how much water you are talking about. Referring to the same table you referenced above it would be 1.79 oz per 400 gallons of water (look on the line next to the 20 ppm). This is how treatment tables work. Your test results tell you where you are and the table then tells you how much to add.

The amount that is beside the 80ppm (7.17oz) or the difference between the two (1.79oz).

If you READ the heading of the first column it says: "Desired increase in ppm". This is how much you want to increase the level from WHERE YOU CURRENTLY ARE, which you indicated is 60 ppm. You also indicated that you want to increase that by 20 ppm so you end up at 80 ppm so you read the line that is for a 20 ppm increase. It's really pretty simple.

I think I know the answer but I just want to make sure before I start testing and wasting reagents.

Thanks a ton all.

It's really no different than when you were testing with strips and the levels were not where you wanted them. The test tells you where you currently are and then you look up in a table or use a calculator to see how much to add to move the level by the desired amount FOR THE AMOUNT OF WATER YOU ARE DEALING WITH.

The ONLY tables in the book that are based on the number of drops used are the acid and base demand tables used with the acid and base demand tests (which are not used that often). In these tables you look up the drops of demand reagent used to determine how much acid or soda ash is needed to move the pH by a certain amount. (You can also substitute borax for soda ash in the base demand test by using twice the weight of borax, the advantage being borax will raise pH without messing up the TA. Soda ash will raise pH and usually causes TA to go way too high).

Said soda ash. Meant Baking soda. DOH! oops.

Yep. The column heading didnt jump out at me.

Got it all squared away.

Thanks.

[rebuck39]

Hi There,

I have just refilled my spa and have been doing the testing with the Taylor K-2106. The other day when I tested for CH I had a low reading so I added calcium chloride, and today when I tested I get no color at all when I add the 20 drops of R-0010 and 5 drops of R0011L, yet when I use a test strip I get a reading of 250 CH. The other readings are pretty close to the test strip. I seem to remember that this happened before but I don't remember how I corrected it. I really don't want to keep adding Calcium Chloride when the test strip indicates it is within range. Any suggestions?

Thanks Ray

[chem geek]

I'm not sure, but it might be a high bromine level bleaching out the dye. You can try the test again at a more normal 4 ppm bromine level.

[rebuck39]

Thanks, the bromine is at 10, so it is high. I will try it again after the bromine goes down. I appreciate your input