Question Re: Ozonator/vision Cartridge, Etc

[Coops]

Greetings and Happy New Year!!

This forum has been very helpful - thank you!

I took advantage of a 50 degree day today and emptied/re-filled my hot tub. I have a D1 spa with ozonator and have been using the vision cartridge.

I've read quite a bit about the dichlor/bleach method and am thinking about switching to this but have some questions.

Does the dichlor/bleach method work with an ozonator?

Can I still use the Vision cartridge?

My vision cartridge is only a few months old (October) - can it be used in the new fill?

I do have a Taylor test kit so have the ability to accurately check the chemistry regularly.

Any suggestions would be much appreciated!

[nordix]

Greetings and Happy New Year!!

This forum has been very helpful - thank you!

I took advantage of a 50 degree day today and emptied/re-filled my hot tub. I have a D1 spa with ozonator and have been using the vision cartridge.

I've read quite a bit about the dichlor/bleach method and am thinking about switching to this but have some questions.

Does the dichlor/bleach method work with an ozonator?

Can I still use the Vision cartridge?

My vision cartridge is only a few months old (October) - can it be used in the new fill?

I do have a Taylor test kit so have the ability to accurately check the chemistry regularly.

Any suggestions would be much appreciated!

[nordix]

Also have a D1 Spa with ozonator. D1 Ozonator is very effective unit,perhaps "gulping" much chlorine but cheaper using Dichlor then bleach method. Had used Vision but not very impressed with result and wife not very confortable with use of MPS.I had to dumped water a month after the first fill maybe the cartridge was non-effective. I did not renewed vision cartridge and switch to Bromide then Bleach after. You could try starting using Dichlor then Bleach method and see how different your perception and difference in adding chemical without Vision as long as you're using a test kit. Keep us inform.

[chem geek]

Yes, the Dichlor/bleach method works fine with an ozonator. If you use the tub every day or two, then the ozonator may cut your chlorine demand roughly in half, but if you use the tub infrequently such as once a week or so, then your chlorine demand may double.

Yes you can still use the Vision cartridge though there is no reason to replace it or use it.

If you use the Dichlor-then-bleach method, be sure to follow the instructions carefully, especially getting your Total Alkalinity (TA) lower and using 50 ppm Borates so that your pH doesn't rise too quickly. If your TA, CH and pH get too high, you can get calcium carbonate scaling.

[Coops]

Yes, the Dichlor/bleach method works fine with an ozonator. If you use the tub every day or two, then the ozonator may cut your chlorine demand roughly in half, but if you use the tub infrequently such as once a week or so, then your chlorine demand may double.

Yes you can still use the Vision cartridge though there is no reason to replace it or use it.

If you use the Dichlor-then-bleach method, be sure to follow the instructions carefully, especially getting your Total Alkalinity (TA) lower and using 50 ppm Borates so that your pH doesn't rise too quickly. If your TA, CH and pH get too high, you can get calcium carbonate scaling.

Thanks for the response!

Can you please give me a little detail about the borates?? I have read several posts on this - some describe a product that is available at a spa store (probably not something i can get this weekend). I also read that 'boric acid' can be used and others have described borax combined with muriatic acid. The other question is how to measure this to get the 50ppm. Thanks again!

[waterbear]

Yes, the Dichlor/bleach method works fine with an ozonator. If you use the tub every day or two, then the ozonator may cut your chlorine demand roughly in half, but if you use the tub infrequently such as once a week or so, then your chlorine demand may double.

Yes you can still use the Vision cartridge though there is no reason to replace it or use it.

If you use the Dichlor-then-bleach method, be sure to follow the instructions carefully, especially getting your Total Alkalinity (TA) lower and using 50 ppm Borates so that your pH doesn't rise too quickly. If your TA, CH and pH get too high, you can get calcium carbonate scaling.

Thanks for the response!

Can you please give me a little detail about the borates?? I have read several posts on this - some describe a product that is available at a spa store (probably not something i can get this weekend). I also read that 'boric acid' can be used and others have described borax combined with muriatic acid. The other question is how to measure this to get the 50ppm. Thanks again!

Borates are measured with borate test strips. LaMotte has the best ones, IMHO. The ones from AquaChek are much harder to read. You probably will have to order them online since very few places carry them locally. I have ordered from here before. They seem to have the best price I can find online and very fast shipping.

Proteam Gentle Spa is a scented borate product. You can also use Proteam Supreme or Supreme Plus (Supreme is borax in the pentahydrate form and needs acid, the plus is a boric acid and borax mixutre and doesn't raise pH).

In terms of dosing:

for every 100 gallons of spa water you need 6 oz of 20 mule team borax (sodium tetraborate decahydrate) and 3 oz of 20 baum (31%) muriatic acid; or 4 oz. of boric acid to raise the borates by 50 ppm

For proteam supreme you would need 4.5 oz and 3 oz of acid. For supreme plus you would need 4.5 oz.

Hope this helps.

[chem geek]

You can use The Pool Calculator to calculate dosages. For 350 gallons, 50 ppm Borates is 13 ounces weight or around 14 ounces volume of boric acid (or use Proteam Gentle Spa which is mostly boric acid) or is a combination of 21 ounces weight or 20 ounces volume of 20 Mule Team Borax with 9.8 fluid ounces of full-strength Muriatic Acid (31.45% Hydrochloric Acid) -- add half the acid first to the spa, then half the borax, etc. or mix them in a bucket of spa water first. You can get a 1 pound jar of boric acid from The Chemistry Store for $5 (plus shipping).

[waterbear]

You can use The Pool Calculator to calculate dosages. For 350 gallons, 50 ppm Borates is 13 ounces weight or around 14 ounces volume of boric acid (or use Proteam Gentle Spa which is mostly boric acid) or is a combination of 21 ounces weight or 20 ounces volume of 20 Mule Team Borax with 9.8 ounces of full-strength Muriatic Acid (31.45% Hydrochloric Acid) -- add half the acid first to the spa, then half the borax, etc. or mix them in a bucket of spa water first. You can get a 1 pound jar of boric acid from The Chemistry Store for $5 (plus shipping).

If you don't mind the small loss of convenience factor using 20 mule team and muriatic acid is the least expensive way to go (a 4.75 lb box of 20 mule team is about $3 and a quart of muriatic acid is a couple of bucks). Boric also is almost twice as expensive but still less expensive than the commercial products.

[Coops]

Thanks for the continued help/responses.

Borax is easy enough to get (and use) but I'm a bit apprehensive about using Muriatic acid...... is there a combination of Boric Acid and Dry Acid that can be used to achieve the same result. I looked at the PoolCalculator and it didn't offer an alternate formula. Right now my PH is just a bit low (7.2) but I did that intentionally as it had been high on fill (8.0). I know that the Borax will raise it and that the need to combine it with Acid is to not raise it too high.

Suggestions??

My CYA is now at 32 so I will be switching to bleach.

[chem geek]

If you use boric acid, then you don't need anything else (i.e. no need for acid or base). Boric acid is only slightly acidic. You just use it on its own and The Pool Calculator will tell you how much to use. If you add it where you are at now, your pH might drop closer to 7.0 so just aerate the water and it should come back up. Or you can aerate now first before adding the boric acid.

[Coops]

Thanks-

I just re-read my post and made an error in my original question.... I cannot find Boric Acid locally so meant to ask whether I can use a combination of BORAX and dry acid (vs. Borax and Muriatic Acid).

Appreciate your continued assistance!!

If you use boric acid, then you don't need anything else (i.e. no need for acid or base). Boric acid is only slightly acidic. You just use it on its own and The Pool Calculator will tell you how much to use. If you add it where you are at now, your pH might drop closer to 7.0 so just aerate the water and it should come back up. Or you can aerate now first before adding the boric acid.