Vanguard Thermostat Issue?

[Tadaia]

I recently bought a Hot Spring Vanguard and performed my first water change per manual instructions. I 'believe' the indicators are as they should be on the panel however whenever I set the temp to 98 and leave the tub overnight I return to find the temperature anywhere between 100-104 deg. It's not so hot outside here such that the outside environment would heat the water so are there any steps that I can take to fix without having to call the local dealer (poor support)? I've tried a 30sec reset of the breakers but still getting the same problem.

thanks!

[hottubdan]

I recently bought a Hot Spring Vanguard and performed my first water change per manual instructions. I 'believe' the indicators are as they should be on the panel however whenever I set the temp to 98 and leave the tub overnight I return to find the temperature anywhere between 100-104 deg. It's not so hot outside here such that the outside environment would heat the water so are there any steps that I can take to fix without having to call the local dealer (poor support)? I've tried a 30sec reset of the breakers but still getting the same problem.

thanks!

Assuming this is a current, new Vanguard, t-stat is tweaked high, to keep it always at or above set temp. It used to be set +/- set temp. So, I suggest you turn down temp a couple of degrees. You may have to add an inch of water, as tub is so well insulated it will take quite a while to cool off a few degrees.

[Tadaia]

Assuming this is a current, new Vanguard, t-stat is tweaked high, to keep it always at or above set temp. It used to be set +/- set temp. So, I suggest you turn down temp a couple of degrees. You may have to add an inch of water, as tub is so well insulated it will take quite a while to cool off a few degrees.

Hey Hotubdan

Thanks for your response! It is the latest model Vanguard. I'll set it to 96 degs, give that a try and post the result later. I will say however that before the refill my water temp was always fairly consistent with my setting, deviating at most only +1 deg.

[Tadaia]

Ok... I ran fresh cool water in the tub and the temp dropped down to 93 deg. I then set it for 95 deg to see what would happen. When I went back out the water had heated to 100 degs and rising.

Is there anything else that I can try? The ready light seems to work properly in that it doesn't blink (error) and when I set the temp within 2 degs it will turn on. The heater just seems to never turn off.

[Dan.The.Spa.Man]

What are you measuring the temp with? A cheap duck/turtle/dolphin pool thermometer or a mediacal thermometer? If it is a pool thermometer the controls of the tub are usually right and the thermometer is usually wrong. Maybe not but just something to check.

[Tadaia]

What are you measuring the temp with? A cheap duck/turtle/dolphin pool thermometer or a mediacal thermometer? If it is a pool thermometer the controls of the tub are usually right and the thermometer is usually wrong. Maybe not but just something to check.

Hi Dan

I'll find a thermometer to check but I actually got in yesterday to check for the possibility of that but I ended up jumping out it was so hot... and reading 104 deg. As well when I add fresh water the temp seems to drop and gauge appropriately. It's as if whatever is supposed to shut off the heater when it reaches the set temp is not working. It just keeps on a-heatin'.

[r5ran]

What are you measuring the temp with? A cheap duck/turtle/dolphin pool thermometer or a mediacal thermometer? If it is a pool thermometer the controls of the tub are usually right and the thermometer is usually wrong. Maybe not but just something to check.

Hi Dan

I'll find a thermometer to check but I actually got in yesterday to check for the possibility of that but I ended up jumping out it was so hot... and reading 104 deg. As well when I add fresh water the temp seems to drop and gauge appropriately. It's as if whatever is supposed to shut off the heater when it reaches the set temp is not working. It just keeps on a-heatin'.

Hi, I'm no expert, but my VG keeps the water consistently within a degree of the set temperature, just as your's did before you changed the water....since this happened after your first water change, I would guess you may have an air pocket somewhere, maybe in the heater? . When you filled the tub did you put the water hose down the input of the circulation pump filter (gray cap)? I know if you don't, this can cause some circulation/heating issues. My Vanguard is the earlier style panel, but the green (ready) light on mine goes out anytime the actual temp is more than a degree +/- from the set temperature, and I suspect yours is the same. Does your ready light turn on as the temp is within a degree of the set temp, then goes out as it gets too hot? Also, on mine I changed jumper 10 that shows the actual temperature of the water after you press any of the temp buttons, and it seems very accurate. I think the new style panels show the actual temp, what does your show? Still think it's something to do with that refill, and possibly an air pocket somewhere....just my 2 cents. thanks, Randy

[Tadaia]

Hi, I'm no expert, but my VG keeps the water consistently within a degree of the set temperature, just as your's did before you changed the water....since this happened after your first water change, I would guess you may have an air pocket somewhere, maybe in the heater? . When you filled the tub did you put the water hose down the input of the circulation pump filter (gray cap)? I know if you don't, this can cause some circulation/heating issues. My Vanguard is the earlier style panel, but the green (ready) light on mine goes out anytime the actual temp is more than a degree +/- from the set temperature, and I suspect yours is the same. Does your ready light turn on as the temp is within a degree of the set temp, then goes out as it gets too hot? Also, on mine I changed jumper 10 that shows the actual temperature of the water after you press any of the temp buttons, and it seems very accurate. I think the new style panels show the actual temp, what does your show? Still think it's something to do with that refill, and possibly an air pocket somewhere....just my 2 cents. thanks, Randy

Hi Randy

An airpocket sounds reasonable. I filled the tub by putting the hose and attached Freshstart prefilter in the filter compartment. All filters were in place with caps ON. The "Ready" light works as yours, turning on within +2F of the setting but the heater doesn't shut off. Mine shows the actual temp most always unless I'm entering another command.

Steps 2 and 3 after refilling might have been where I went wrong...

2. After the spa has been filled with water and the equipment compartment door is secured, power must be applied to the spa.

• 230 volt models: Open the door of the electrical subpanel, if your spa is a Vanguard or Sovereign model reset the 20 amp GFCI breaker first and verify the system is primed (see step 3), then reset the 30 amp breaker. If your spa is a Vista, Grandee, Envoy or Aria model reset the 30 amp GFCI breaker first, verify the system is primed, then reset the 20 amp breaker. Close and secure the subpanel door.

3. The jet pump, heating system, and all internal plumbing will achieve a partial prime as the spa is filled. To check the operation of the jet system and to purge any remaining air from the heating system, push the JETS hardbutton button once then push the JET MAX soft button to make both jet pumps run on high speed for one minute. Once the jet system is fully operational (as indicated by strong, non-surging jets), priming of the spa is complete, press the ALL OFF soft button to shut the jets off. Weak or surging jets are an indication of a low water level condition or clogged filter cartridges.

MPORTANT: Be sure the air control valves (see illustration in Comfort Control® system section) are open by turning each one clockwise and checking to see that the SmartJet® lever is pointing to the 3 o’clock position (see illustration in SmartJet system section).

I'll take another look tomorrow and go through the routine post refill once more to see if that clears the problem.

Thanks... I think you're on to something!

[r5ran]

"I filled the tub by putting the hose and attached Freshstart prefilter in the filter compartment. All filters were in place with caps ON.

HI, I think I may have found your issue.....I always fill mine by removing the circulation pump cap and filter, and shove the hose down that inlet, and fill it that way till the water is above the bottom of the filter, not just stick the hose in the compartment. Sounds like you may have trapped some air inside the circulation pump filter/line and forced it down into the pump. Just a guess, but I think this may have been your root cause of the problem. Just my 2 cents again...Randy

[Peteyboy]

You recently got this spa? Is it under warranty? If so call your dealer.

If you have a good flow of bubbles coming up from the bottom drain then you don't have airlock.

It would then probably be a Control Thermister problem. This should be under warranty.

A serial number will help to guide you to what part you may need.

[Spa God]

If it was an air lock you likely would not heat at all as you would get no flow...

does the tub stop at 104 or will it keep going up?

If it does keep going up does the overheat message come up?

If it does stop at 104 then it is either a board fault or the temp sensor, check the resistance of the temp sensor and not the temperature at the time the reading was taken, then we can determine if the sensor is in the right range.

This is a bit of a strange one private message me the serial number so I can determine the exact specs of the system and we can go from there.

[Tadaia]

Randy

The instructions do not specifically say I should insert the hose in that inlet but I am getting some minor "surging" from the jets since refill. It's raining down my way today so I'll likely pursue this (steps 2 & 3) tomorrow just to be sure there's no issues there.

Peteyboy hi

There appears to be a good flow of bubbles. I'm trying to avoid the dealer if its something simple. They are the only one in the area and I get angry and frustrated everytime I have to deal with them. Their follow-up (and attitude) is not the best when I've had an issue or question. They called me almost weekly to encourage me to purchase a salt-water system. I finally agreed, paid for it and was given a delivery date. As with the hottub order itself it is now well late. They haven't bothered to update me and when I call them to inquire about it they act as if I owe THEM something. Of course, push comes to shove I will call them if necessary.

Spa God

The tub does seem to stop at 104, or perhaps that's just where I happened to have caught it each time. I've never seen an overheat message and still plan to buy a duckie thermostat thingy by tomorrow to be sure. I'll pull out the board diagram today and try to find the sensor. I should have a ohmmeter around here somewhere and will measure tomorrow. Also where can I find this serial number?

[JerimiahR]

Tadaia,

Contact your local dealer and ask them about this. The new 2009/2010 Vanguard models with the top side controls will display ACTUAL temperature, and your set temperature. In very cold climates (I'm in Montana) I have seen your exact issue on a couple instances. In both cases, the temperature of the hot tub was too hot while it was sub freezing temperatures over night. Watkins Manufacturing (makers of Hot Spring Spas) had us install an insulation kit on the equipment compartment door. This was not intended to simply add insulation, but was intended to block direct airflow into the compartment. What could be the cause is very cold air blowing in under the equipment door (where power conduit goes in) and causes temporary low temperature readings with the Thermostat. This would cause the hot tub to believe it needed to heat.

If you're uncomfortable with your dealer, please contact Watkins Manufacturing's tech support directly:

1-800-999-4688

[Peteyboy]

If your dealer is that bad I would report them to Watkins Mfg 800-999-4688.

The Ducky thermometer is no good. As long as you're up to temp use an oral thermometer.

Surging from the jets could be either a low water level or clogged filters - pull the filters to see if the surging goes away.