Salt Water System

[Tubber McGee]

Can someone talk about the new salt water systems that have been getting alot of hype as of late.

On the surface they seem complicated and more of a hassle! But it seems like people in the industry are really excited about it and talk about it being great!

I would like to know what it means to me as a consumer - easy of use - cost - initial set up.....

If buying new - would you be a fool not to go this route!

Thanks

[THE SPA GUY]

i think it depwnds on who you talk to, i have sole them , some worked well a others were a nightmare for our customers, you still need to check the water at least once a week, some you will have to check for phosphates, and salt contents, may need multiple test strips, some you will have to clean the stainless plates yearly, i am not a fan of them ..... but to each his own. costs to get some run around 1,500.00, when i talk to people that come into the store about the salt system, i try to talk out of it. when they buy and come back in i hear alot they are happy to go with ozone and chlorine,,,, vewry ez to use...hope this helps

[J.C.McGILLICUDDY]

There are two types of salt generators . Bromine and Chlorine . they use different salts. Can't say too much about the chlorine generators.but I have been using the genesis bromine generator for 5 years, which i believe is the only one that makes a bromine generator for hot tubs.I just think its fantastic. It's very low maintenace.I literaly open the lid ,soak,get out close the lid and walk away.generators tend to push the ph to the upper end ,but if you keep your ta on the low end.the higher ph is no big deal.if your going to have heavy usage you will have to shock it to keep enough bromine in the tub.otherwise shocking not necesary. water changes once a year.never had cloudy ,foamy water, allways crystal clear,tub shell feels squeaky clean,water has a nice feel to itno corrosion issues,not maintenace free but very close .cost 5 years ago $500.00.highly recomend it be tee'd in with a good 24 hr circ pump

J.C.

[JerimiahR]

Can someone talk about the new salt water systems that have been getting alot of hype as of late.

On the surface they seem complicated and more of a hassle! But it seems like people in the industry are really excited about it and talk about it being great!

I would like to know what it means to me as a consumer - easy of use - cost - initial set up.....

If buying new - would you be a fool not to go this route!

Thanks

Are you talking salt water systems in general? Or about a particular salt sanitizing system? The latest salt system on the market is Hot Spring's ACE Salt Sanitizing System, which is an entirely inline system designed specifically for use on new Hot Spring spas. I can tell you from a professional and personal standpoint that it's everything but complicated. It's an extremely simple to use system.

We've sold and installed several since they were released a couple months ago, and folks are really enjoying them.

As for "salt systems" in general, there are a lot of generic systems on the market, of which I've heard of bad experiences but haven't used myself. That's specifically with reference to hot tubs. There are a lot of salt chlorine generators for in ground pools as well.

[dwar]

Can someone talk about the new salt water systems that have been getting alot of hype as of late.

On the surface they seem complicated and more of a hassle! But it seems like people in the industry are really excited about it and talk about it being great!

I would like to know what it means to me as a consumer - easy of use - cost - initial set up.....

If buying new - would you be a fool not to go this route!

Thanks

I have an Arctic Klondiker and got the Onzen system. I had a 30,000 gallon pool in AZ and put a salt system in when we had the pool built. It worked fantastic. I've had the Klondiker for a year now and the Onzen system went out. I just had it replaced. I will say, when it was working it was very nice. No chlorine smell is the best.

[spa fanatic]

Can someone talk about the new salt water systems that have been getting alot of hype as of late.

On the surface they seem complicated and more of a hassle! But it seems like people in the industry are really excited about it and talk about it being great!

I would like to know what it means to me as a consumer - easy of use - cost - initial set up.....

If buying new - would you be a fool not to go this route!

Thanks

salt water is awesome, been using for 6 years ,bromine generator only, dont try any others couldnt get em to work...

[spa fanatic]

Can someone talk about the new salt water systems that have been getting alot of hype as of late.

On the surface they seem complicated and more of a hassle! But it seems like people in the industry are really excited about it and talk about it being great!

I would like to know what it means to me as a consumer - easy of use - cost - initial set up.....

If buying new - would you be a fool not to go this route!

Thanks

I have an Arctic Klondiker and got the Onzen system. I had a 30,000 gallon pool in AZ and put a salt system in when we had the pool built. It worked fantastic. I've had the Klondiker for a year now and the Onzen system went out. I just had it replaced. I will say, when it was working it was very nice. No chlorine smell is the best.

i know people who have changed thier onzen out 3 times, onzen or bromine generators dont work well on arctic, you need a small 24 hr circ pump to make these bromine generators work, to my knowledge nothing makes onzen work sodium chloride not great at 104 degrees.make sure you take a door off your arctic in the summer the heat in thier kills the innerds (equipment)

[Markee]

Everyone I've talked to who has one has had nothing but problems. Great for pools, not great for spas.

[JerimiahR]

Everyone I've talked to who has one has had nothing but problems. Great for pools, not great for spas.

Markee is right on, as this is the same thing I've experienced as well. Salt Chlorine systems have been used in swimming pools successfully for years. Hot tubs however, have different obstacles chemistry wise that have made integration of such a system very difficult.

However, as a dealer I'm having huge success with the new ACE Salt Sanitizing System that Hot Spring released this year. Of course, the technology in it has changed compared to "other salt systems". There's a new diamond technology used in the ACE system that seems to be a large part of the difference between working and not working.

We're loving it so far. I have a 500 gallon Hot Spring Grandee in our showroom that's been filled for over 2 months now. After test soakers and lots of hands feeling the water, I've yet to add Chlorine to it. I've tested the pH twice (once a month) as recommended, and so far it's still crystal clear, soft and comfortable.

[Theojt]

Glad to hear that - I just purchased a Grandee with ACE. Won't be installed until early July though. I travel fairly frequently, so the salt system was part of my decision due to the ability to extend time between maintenance. Hope it holds up to the hype long-term.

Jeff

<!--quoteo(post=105618:date=Apr 20 2010, 01:15 AM:name=Markee)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Markee @ Apr 20 2010, 01:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=105618"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Everyone I've talked to who has one has had nothing but problems. Great for pools, not great for spas.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Markee is right on, as this is the same thing I've experienced as well. Salt Chlorine systems have been used in swimming pools successfully for years. Hot tubs however, have different obstacles chemistry wise that have made integration of such a system very difficult.

However, as a dealer I'm having huge success with the new ACE Salt Sanitizing System that Hot Spring released this year. Of course, the technology in it has changed compared to "other salt systems". There's a new diamond technology used in the ACE system that seems to be a large part of the difference between working and not working.

We're loving it so far. <img src="http://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> I have a 500 gallon Hot Spring Grandee in our showroom that's been filled for over 2 months now. After test soakers and lots of hands feeling the water, I've yet to add Chlorine to it. I've tested the pH twice (once a month) as recommended, and so far it's still crystal clear, soft and comfortable.

[JerimiahR]

Congrats on your purchase Theojt! The Grandee is an awesome spa model. They're pretty popular in my market. I just like having all the leg room, and two moto-massage jets personally. The ACE Salt System is performing well for us. So I wouldn't have any reservations there. Should be great for you since you travel. You won't have to worry about coming home to a green monster in your spa.

[Spa God]

I dont like the salt (bromine or chlorine, including the "the new ACE Salt Sanitizing System that Hot Spring released this year" :-) (you guys are like Moonies :-))

Anyway, my experience has been they are easily as much trouble as a regular chemical routine... you still need to test and balane the water and the salt level and the activator in some cases... They work great on pools but not so on spas, and the only people i have ever met in the really real world that endorse them are retailers making money off them...

In the European market Aqua Finesse has taken over the market it is an enzyme that is used almost exclusively and works amazingly well... it just got approval in Canada and the U.S. so you are starting to see it in N.A. a buddy of mine in Canada sells 500 packs a year and rising... the down side is it is expensive... about $175.00 every three months but the water quality is simply off the head and easy as it gets..., In my opinion this product will make salt and all the other gimmicky systems old news... I have personally used it for years and after more than 20 years in this industry I can honestly say there has never been anything that has come anywhere near to this product. Capo in Canada is producing it under license for the US and Canadian markets...

[spatech (the unreal one)]

I dont like the salt (bromine or chlorine, including the "the new ACE Salt Sanitizing System that Hot Spring released this year" :-) (you guys are like Moonies :-))

Anyway, my experience has been they are easily as much trouble as a regular chemical routine... you still need to test and balane the water and the salt level and the activator in some cases... They work great on pools but not so on spas, and the only people i have ever met in the really real world that endorse them are retailers making money off them...

In the European market Aqua Finesse has taken over the market it is an enzyme that is used almost exclusively and works amazingly well... it just got approval in Canada and the U.S. so you are starting to see it in N.A. a buddy of mine in Canada sells 500 packs a year and rising... the down side is it is expensive... about $175.00 every three months but the water quality is simply off the head and easy as it gets..., In my opinion this product will make salt and all the other gimmicky systems old news... I have personally used it for years and after more than 20 years in this industry I can honestly say there has never been anything that has come anywhere near to this product. Capo in Canada is producing it under license for the US and Canadian markets...

...but I could counter that my experience with enzymes is they're not worth the trouble and have been very hit and miss. Your response would be that the Aqua Finesse is different and this one works and it shouldn't be judged on any other false promise products of the past. Now I have no experience with A.F. so in reality I'm not commenting on it and I'll take your word that it's done well for you.

Chlorine/bromine generators for spas have have a spotty past track record too but I've always thought someone would eventually get them to work just as we've seen with pools where they are no longer the exception but more the rule. I understand the trepidation you have for the spa versions and certainly time will tell so their testimonials for chlorine generators are just like yours for Aqua Finesse. Arctic and Hot Spring have both come out with chlorine generators which are well received early on, lets give it time.

[Spa God]

I totally agree with you about the enzymes... I never ever got behind any up until now, but my personal exposure to this stuff and having had well in excess of 200 individual customers using it and to my knowledge I have never had one go back to regular chemicals...

Usually enzymes are presented as a cheap treatment to augment you regular routine and frankly they have never done much for me (spa perfect did seem to help a little but not much) but this stuff is a crazy expensive replacement. I swear I add this stuff once a week, keep the chlorine at 1ppm and shock it once a week and my water stays nic and tuc, and i have 2 kids 2 neighbors kids and me and the missus that use it regularly... It is snake oil man you have got to try it... I balance my water when i start and sometimes once every month or two and I routinely go 6 months with a batch of water, been using it for 2 years plus and you would have to pry it from my cold dead hands to get me to go to anything else

[polyvue]

QUOTE (Markee @ Apr 20 2010, 01:15 AM) Everyone I've talked to who has one has had nothing but problems. Great for pools, not great for spas.

Markee is right on, as this is the same thing I've experienced as well. Salt Chlorine systems have been used in swimming pools successfully for years. Hot tubs however, have different obstacles chemistry wise that have made integration of such a system very difficult.

However, as a dealer I'm having huge success with the new ACE Salt Sanitizing System that Hot Spring released this year. Of course, the technology in it has changed compared to "other salt systems". There's a new diamond technology used in the ACE system that seems to be a large part of the difference between working and not working.

We're loving it so far. I have a 500 gallon Hot Spring Grandee in our showroom that's been filled for over 2 months now. After test soakers and lots of hands feeling the water, I've yet to add Chlorine to it. I've tested the pH twice (once a month) as recommended, and so far it's still crystal clear, soft and comfortable.

Just to pick up on spatech(tuo)'s skeptical take for a moment... I'd sure like to understand a bit more about the "new diamond technology" and its relation to salt water chlorine generation. Testimonials are fine, but what (specifically) makes this particular SWG different?

[JerimiahR]

QUOTE (Markee @ Apr 20 2010, 01:15 AM) Everyone I've talked to who has one has had nothing but problems. Great for pools, not great for spas.

Markee is right on, as this is the same thing I've experienced as well. Salt Chlorine systems have been used in swimming pools successfully for years. Hot tubs however, have different obstacles chemistry wise that have made integration of such a system very difficult.

However, as a dealer I'm having huge success with the new ACE Salt Sanitizing System that Hot Spring released this year. Of course, the technology in it has changed compared to "other salt systems". There's a new diamond technology used in the ACE system that seems to be a large part of the difference between working and not working.

We're loving it so far. I have a 500 gallon Hot Spring Grandee in our showroom that's been filled for over 2 months now. After test soakers and lots of hands feeling the water, I've yet to add Chlorine to it. I've tested the pH twice (once a month) as recommended, and so far it's still crystal clear, soft and comfortable.

Just to pick up on spatech(tuo)'s skeptical take for a moment... I'd sure like to understand a bit more about the "new diamond technology" and its relation to salt water chlorine generation. Testimonials are fine, but what (specifically) makes this particular SWG different?

Diamonds actually intensify the output of the electrode, thereby creating a stronger chemical reaction. Also as part of the difference made by the diamonds, the ACE System outputs more than "chlorine". It is also capable of outputting Ozone, Active Oxygen, MPS (when pH Decreaser is added), and Hydrogen Peroxide (commonly used in Soft Soak and BaquaSpa products). Because the system has a stronger intensity, you can effectively sanitize the hot tub with less salt (ppm) than a typical salt system used in pools.

Anymore than that and I can't really say to be honest. The diamond technology used here is not something you'll likely learn about in a collegiate chemistry course as I understand it is fairly new.

Quote from Hot Spring's Website:

The ACE system has a diamond electrode that breaks apart water molecules to create active oxygen. Active oxygen is one of the world’s most effective natural cleaners and is the first way the ACE system cleans the water. The active oxygen then combines with salt and other elements in the water to create chlorine and three other powerful oxidizers.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Just to pick up on spatech(tuo)'s skeptical take for a moment...

Actually I was trying to stay neutral .

[JerimiahR]

Just to pick up on spatech(tuo)'s skeptical take for a moment...

Actually I was trying to stay neutral .

It's okay. There is a lot lost in a text only conversation. So much of human conversation is done through body language and tone of voice, neither of which can be conveyed by text very easily.

[Spa God]

QUOTE (Markee @ Apr 20 2010, 01:15 AM) Everyone I've talked to who has one has had nothing but problems. Great for pools, not great for spas.

Markee is right on, as this is the same thing I've experienced as well. Salt Chlorine systems have been used in swimming pools successfully for years. Hot tubs however, have different obstacles chemistry wise that have made integration of such a system very difficult.

However, as a dealer I'm having huge success with the new ACE Salt Sanitizing System that Hot Spring released this year. Of course, the technology in it has changed compared to "other salt systems". There's a new diamond technology used in the ACE system that seems to be a large part of the difference between working and not working.

We're loving it so far. I have a 500 gallon Hot Spring Grandee in our showroom that's been filled for over 2 months now. After test soakers and lots of hands feeling the water, I've yet to add Chlorine to it. I've tested the pH twice (once a month) as recommended, and so far it's still crystal clear, soft and comfortable.

Just to pick up on spatech(tuo)'s skeptical take for a moment... I'd sure like to understand a bit more about the "new diamond technology" and its relation to salt water chlorine generation. Testimonials are fine, but what (specifically) makes this particular SWG different?

Diamonds actually intensify the output of the electrode, thereby creating a stronger chemical reaction. Also as part of the difference made by the diamonds, the ACE System outputs more than "chlorine". It is also capable of outputting Ozone, Active Oxygen, MPS (when pH Decreaser is added), and Hydrogen Peroxide (commonly used in Soft Soak and BaquaSpa products). Because the system has a stronger intensity, you can effectively sanitize the hot tub with less salt (ppm) than a typical salt system used in pools.

Anymore than that and I can't really say to be honest. The diamond technology used here is not something you'll likely learn about in a collegiate chemistry course as I understand it is fairly new.

Quote from Hot Spring's Website:

The ACE system has a diamond electrode that breaks apart water molecules to create active oxygen. Active oxygen is one of the world’s most effective natural cleaners and is the first way the ACE system cleans the water. The active oxygen then combines with salt and other elements in the water to create chlorine and three other powerful oxidizers.

Ok so lets get this right... it makes chlorine... called natural chlorine, which really means non stabalized chlorine... a product that is by definition more suseptable to breakdown by UV and well... less stable... especially compared to lets say a good old stabilized chlorine, which is cheap, readily available and works real well... then it makes ozone.. like what an ozone generator makes??? which is, well, what every spa in the known universe already makes??? and then it makes hydrogen peroxide which we all know is very aggressive... so aggressive that most people dont use it anymore, (where were you in the 80's???)and many manufacturers actually recommend not using to the point where it actually voids the warranty on many brands (remember the Baqua nightmares where everybody's plastic parts started getting brittle and failing???) (and what about the Hydrogen peroxide fun... people complained of their hair turning funny colors???, hell get it to make Silver Ions and we will be rich!!!) and then it makes MPS as well...WOW (what is MPS??? :-( ) I missed that class.) and it uses a diamond!!!! Christ I'm in... anything that uses a diamond must be the bees knees... and how much is this system that does so many things using a diamond cost? and will my wife like it???

[spatech (the unreal one)]

and how much is this system that does so many things using a diamond cost? and will my wife like it???

Get one and tell your wife "I got you diamonds for our anniversary"!!

[Spa God]

I was serious about the MPS question what the hell is it... "Multiple particle sifter"??? "micro pollutant snuffer"??? Most pathetic Salespitches"... Must Pay Stupidprice" Maltroficial Prefilter Scrupulizer"

I'm embarrassed to ask but i have no idea and cant be arsed to Google it...

[spatech (the unreal one)]

I was serious about the MPS question what the hell is it... "Multiple particle sifter"??? "micro pollutant snuffer"??? Most pathetic Salespitches"... Must Pay Stupidprice" Maltroficial Prefilter Scrupulizer"

I'm embarrassed to ask but i have no idea and cant be arsed to Google it...

MPS = monopersulfate (aka Renew)

[Theojt]

Spa God said:

Ok so lets get this right... it makes chlorine... called natural chlorine, which really means non stabalized chlorine... a product that is by definition more suseptable to breakdown by UV and well... less stable... especially compared to lets say a good old stabilized chlorine, which is cheap, readily available and works real well... then it makes ozone.. like what an ozone generator makes??? which is, well, what every spa in the known universe already makes??? and then it makes hydrogen peroxide which we all know is very aggressive... so aggressive that most people dont use it anymore, (where were you in the 80's???)and many manufacturers actually recommend not using to the point where it actually voids the warranty on many brands (remember the Baqua nightmares where everybody's plastic parts started getting brittle and failing???) (and what about the Hydrogen peroxide fun... people complained of their hair turning funny colors???, hell get it to make Silver Ions and we will be rich!!!) and then it makes MPS as well...WOW (what is MPS??? :-( ) I missed that class.) and it uses a diamond!!!! Christ I'm in... anything that uses a diamond must be the bees knees... and how much is this system that does so many things using a diamond cost? and will my wife like it???

These are good points. I knew it made chlorine and ozone, but I missed that it generated hydrogen peroxide. Do any of the HS dealers here have access to engineering at Hot Springs for clarification? Not looking for marketing answers - just the technical answers.