JamesIlsley Posted February 7, 2010 Report Share Posted February 7, 2010 Hello! This is my first post but I have been lurking for a few weeks and devouring all of the great advice on this forum... Anyway, I have now moved into the shopping phase of my first spa experience and have a dilemma... After visiting several independent dealers, I am drawn to a Master Spa Legacy Intrepid 2009 floor model. I really like the dealer and feel he was honest with me and has a track record for service. I know, I know... I have read all of the criticisms of the insulation yet if this is a good deal there is a point at which the loss in efficiency is overshadowed by the price paid. (I do live in the south where winters are very mild and plan to add some extra insulation as others have done) Here is the deal: 2009 Master Spa Legacy Intrepid 94"x94"x36" 510 Gallon 2 Pumps (No 24 hr circ) 40 Jets Waterline LED Kenwood Stereo/CD Matching Steps 5" "Premium Deluxe" Cover Delivery and Setup Cover Lifter Extended Warranty - Lifetime Structure, 5 year parts and labor (not prorated) Price: $5750 So what do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poolman18 Posted February 7, 2010 Report Share Posted February 7, 2010 First of all if you are happy with the dealer and his service record then I say it is a good deal. The price is fair for what you are receiving and I agree with you on the insulation debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesIlsley Posted February 7, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2010 First of all if you are happy with the dealer and his service record then I say it is a good deal. The price is fair for what you are receiving and I agree with you on the insulation debate. Thank you, poolman! The lack of fullfoam and 24 hour circ bothered me at first, but I am learning that there are always give and takes. I was looking at a similar price, similar feature Premium Leisure as well but liked the dealer on the Master better. Of course, cannot make a decision before asking the forum :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesIlsley Posted February 7, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2010 First of all if you are happy with the dealer and his service record then I say it is a good deal. The price is fair for what you are receiving and I agree with you on the insulation debate. Thank you, poolman! The lack of fullfoam and 24 hour circ bothered me at first, but I am learning that there are always give and takes. I was looking at a similar price, similar feature Premium Leisure as well but liked the dealer on the Master better. Of course, cannot make a decision before asking the forum :-) Anyone else have any thoughts before I pull the trigger? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spatech (the unreal one) Posted February 8, 2010 Report Share Posted February 8, 2010 First of all if you are happy with the dealer and his service record then I say it is a good deal. The price is fair for what you are receiving and I agree with you on the insulation debate. Thank you, poolman! The lack of fullfoam and 24 hour circ bothered me at first, but I am learning that there are always give and takes. I was looking at a similar price, similar feature Premium Leisure as well but liked the dealer on the Master better. Of course, cannot make a decision before asking the forum :-) Anyone else have any thoughts before I pull the trigger? There is an old restaurant saying, eat where the truckers eat. If Master had a restaurant none of us would be eating there. If everyone on this website was asked to name their top 5 spa makers (not including the ones they represent but only competitors) I'd be shocked if Master was on anyone's list (unless the list was what brands NOT to purchase). Sorry, just being direct and honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesIlsley Posted February 9, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 Anyone else have any thoughts before I pull the trigger? There is an old restaurant saying, eat where the truckers eat. If Master had a restaurant none of us would be eating there. If everyone on this website was asked to name their top 5 spa makers (not including the ones they represent but only competitors) I'd be shocked if Master was on anyone's list (unless the list was what brands NOT to purchase). Sorry, just being direct and honest. Nothing to be sorry about. I have visited a few more dealers and am having second thoughts about the Master. Not completely ruled out, but I am leaning towards one from another dealer, basically just giving up the radio and some warranty... Four Winds (Honolulu) Floor Model • 90" x 90" x 37.25" • Six Adult Therapy Positions • 70 Jets Air & Water • Venturi Type Air Injection • (2) 5.0 HP Pumps (No 24 hr circ) • Full Foam • No radio/CD • LED lighting • Vanishing Edge Waterfall • Watershow Fountains • Base Mounted Treated Runners • No Maintenance infinity Cabinet • 500 Gallons • Steps • NO Ozone (Ozone ready- $149 add on) • Delivery and Setup • Cover not as nice as the Master dealer- just a standard cover. • Only two year warranty • Really like the dealer/tech • $6000 including tax I visited another dealer in town (Sundance/Hot Springs) and of course loved everything but cannot justify the extra $3000-$4000 since I plan to move in 5-7 years and the tub will go with the house. I am doing my best to follow the wisdom of the pros on this site and get a well insulated, well built spa. I cannot afford to "eat where the truckers eat" at their gourmet restaurant, but I am doing my best to join them for a good hearty lunch at their favorite sandwich shop :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reeffreak Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 Anyone else have any thoughts before I pull the trigger? Nothing to be sorry about. I have visited a few more dealers and am having second thoughts about the Master. Not completely ruled out, but I am leaning towards one from another dealer, basically just giving up the radio and some warranty... Four Winds (Honolulu) Floor Model • 90" x 90" x 37.25" • Six Adult Therapy Positions • 70 Jets Air & Water • Venturi Type Air Injection • (2) 5.0 HP Pumps (No 24 hr circ) • Full Foam • No radio/CD • LED lighting • Vanishing Edge Waterfall • Watershow Fountains • Base Mounted Treated Runners • No Maintenance infinity Cabinet • 500 Gallons • Steps • NO Ozone (Ozone ready- $149 add on) • Delivery and Setup • Cover not as nice as the Master dealer- just a standard cover. • Only two year warranty • Really like the dealer/tech • $6000 including tax I visited another dealer in town (Sundance/Hot Springs) and of course loved everything but cannot justify the extra $3000-$4000 since I plan to move in 5-7 years and the tub will go with the house. I am doing my best to follow the wisdom of the pros on this site and get a well insulated, well built spa. I cannot afford to "eat where the truckers eat" at their gourmet restaurant, but I am doing my best to join them for a good hearty lunch at their favorite sandwich shop :-) The four winds factory is local to me. I own one of their spas that I bought off of the floor in Smyrna. It's not perfect, but the guys that run the factory were straight up, and I felt good supporting them. $6k is not a steal but not a ripoff either. They advertise their spas as full foam, but I wouldn't call it the same kind of full foam as a HS or D1 (I've seen them with the cabinets off and there is a difference)- the 4w could be foamed much more. The 4W's are standard 2x2 frame construction, with off-the-shelf components. (waterway jets, balboa vs controller, aqualflo pumps). Overall energy usage hasn't been objectionable, but we had a cold jan, and that bill rang my bell a little (maybe $50-60 but we were in it a LOT with the cover off). Overall, I'd say costs to operate average in the $25/mo range year round. These spas aren't going to command the same respect as the topshelf brands this board favors, but I have been satisfied with my purchase. If you are going for absolute value, don't overlook good used spas. Values drop tremendously within a couple of years of ownership. Whether you spend $15k or 4k on a spa, either will prob be worth $1-2k in 5-7 yr tops. And I'd stay away from the electronic gadgets. Skip the built in stereo, and wire speakers to your home audio system. I bet the master doesn't cover that stereo for 5yr. Usually you'll see 90 days- 6 mo. there's a reason for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesIlsley Posted February 9, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 Anyone else have any thoughts before I pull the trigger? Nothing to be sorry about. I have visited a few more dealers and am having second thoughts about the Master. Not completely ruled out, but I am leaning towards one from another dealer, basically just giving up the radio and some warranty... Four Winds (Honolulu) Floor Model • 90" x 90" x 37.25" • Six Adult Therapy Positions • 70 Jets Air & Water • Venturi Type Air Injection • (2) 5.0 HP Pumps (No 24 hr circ) • Full Foam • No radio/CD • LED lighting • Vanishing Edge Waterfall • Watershow Fountains • Base Mounted Treated Runners • No Maintenance infinity Cabinet • 500 Gallons • Steps • NO Ozone (Ozone ready- $149 add on) • Delivery and Setup • Cover not as nice as the Master dealer- just a standard cover. • Only two year warranty • Really like the dealer/tech • $6000 including tax I visited another dealer in town (Sundance/Hot Springs) and of course loved everything but cannot justify the extra $3000-$4000 since I plan to move in 5-7 years and the tub will go with the house. I am doing my best to follow the wisdom of the pros on this site and get a well insulated, well built spa. I cannot afford to "eat where the truckers eat" at their gourmet restaurant, but I am doing my best to join them for a good hearty lunch at their favorite sandwich shop :-) The four winds factory is local to me. I own one of their spas that I bought off of the floor in Smyrna. It's not perfect, but the guys that run the factory were straight up, and I felt good supporting them. $6k is not a steal but not a ripoff either. They advertise their spas as full foam, but I wouldn't call it the same kind of full foam as a HS or D1 (I've seen them with the cabinets off and there is a difference)- the 4w could be foamed much more. The 4W's are standard 2x2 frame construction, with off-the-shelf components. (waterway jets, balboa vs controller, aqualflo pumps). Overall energy usage hasn't been objectionable, but we had a cold jan, and that bill rang my bell a little (maybe $50-60 but we were in it a LOT with the cover off). Overall, I'd say costs to operate average in the $25/mo range year round. These spas aren't going to command the same respect as the topshelf brands this board favors, but I have been satisfied with my purchase. If you are going for absolute value, don't overlook good used spas. Values drop tremendously within a couple of years of ownership. Whether you spend $15k or 4k on a spa, either will prob be worth $1-2k in 5-7 yr tops. And I'd stay away from the electronic gadgets. Skip the built in stereo, and wire speakers to your home audio system. I bet the master doesn't cover that stereo for 5yr. Usually you'll see 90 days- 6 mo. there's a reason for that. Wow, Reeffreak! Great response. I have been looking out for used but there hasn't been much available in my area (Raleigh NC) 50-60 bucks as a bad month would be just fine with me! People have been telling me the MasterSpa would be 150-200 I am most concerned about the short warranty - i pulled the warranty from the web site and noticed it is Shell structure: 12 years, Shell surface: 5 years, Plumbing: 5 years, Equipment: 2 years, Labor: 1 year. That is kinda icky- the 1 year on labor part. But otherwise, I am likin it.' The 6k includes sales tax. (7.75%) so it is really more like $5575. It is the floor model and has a little chip in the corner (damaged during moving into the showroom) That is why there is the "deal." I am thinking about bartering a little bit and saying throw in a coverlifter and ozonator and call it a deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE SPA GUY Posted February 10, 2010 Report Share Posted February 10, 2010 I would agree with spatech on this one, but you should be able to find some of the better brands mid line and not be much more than what you state, like the @ home series from Dimension One, the 680 series from Sundance, The tiger river from Watkins( Hot Springs,Caldera,Limelight), Jacuzzi j230 as well but still buy from who you are comfortable with.make sure they have a good track record .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kreg Posted February 10, 2010 Report Share Posted February 10, 2010 The Legacy Whirlpool line is a great value by Master Spas. I know I am outnumbered on this forum by all the Hot Spring guys, but Master Spas builds great spas at a great price. If you found a dealer that you like and feel comfortable with, by all means pull the trigger! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE SPA GUY Posted February 10, 2010 Report Share Posted February 10, 2010 I,m not a Hot Springs guy. but i do my homework....but you cannot argue . they do make a great spa. i do agree if he has a local dealer that sells them and he is comfortable with that then go for it. but just what i have seen i am still not a fan of Master. but to each his own. if the shoe fits wear it. . i still believe the brands i listed before have great value lines as well. but wet test the ones you like and go from there.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kreg Posted February 10, 2010 Report Share Posted February 10, 2010 I,m not a Hot Springs guy. but i do my homework....but you cannot argue . they do make a great spa. i do agree if he has a local dealer that sells them and he is comfortable with that then go for it. but just what i have seen i am still not a fan of Master. but to each his own. if the shoe fits wear it. . i still believe the brands i listed before have great value lines as well. but wet test the ones you like and go from there.... You are right. I cannot argue. Master Spas makes a great spa! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE SPA GUY Posted February 10, 2010 Report Share Posted February 10, 2010 I,m not a Hot Springs guy. but i do my homework....but you cannot argue . they do make a great spa. i do agree if he has a local dealer that sells them and he is comfortable with that then go for it. but just what i have seen i am still not a fan of Master. but to each his own. if the shoe fits wear it. . i still believe the brands i listed before have great value lines as well. but wet test the ones you like and go from there.... You are right. I cannot argue. Master Spas makes a great spa! Kreg did i mess up on my spelling Hot Springs....... i did not put Master but again to each his own, you sell them ....i don't , i don't even sell Hot Springs...i do sell D1 , H2o which i would put in the same catergory as Hot Springs,,,,,i am not pushing my spas on here, but i do know a good hot tub and not...... but i appreciate that you believe in what you sell thatt is good, that is why i like this site we can all say what we believe in.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul doe Posted February 15, 2010 Report Share Posted February 15, 2010 Master Spa has been nothing but a headache since I got it. Every year I had to have my dealer come out and fix a heating problem, his solution was to un-solder a wire from the motherboard and let the board reset and then re-solder the wire back and it would work for at least 6 months. This has gone on since 2002 and now that my dealer has went out of business and did not file the paperwork with Master Spa, they want me to pay $512.50 for replacement of the motherboard and another $125.00 service call to another dealer. Now this was after a Master Spa rep (Greg) at a Delaware hot tub show told me that the dealer was wrong to service my spa like that and gave me the head of customer service, Kevin Richards to be put off to a regular customer service rep. But they were quick in trying to sell my friends a swim spa for over $11,000.00. So as far as I am concerned, they do not stand behind their products. This is not the only problem I have had, I had to replace the intake pipe to the pump, replaced several jets to the point where Master Spa sent me a "jet pack". Enough jets to change every jet in my tub which is around 25 because they knew of a manufacture problem but was not telling customers unless you asked or complained. So if Greg, of Kevin or anyone from Master Spa says anything, do not believe them. Now if you dealer is better, I would still make sure that all repairs were documented and saved to protect yourself in case you run into what I did. This is not my first spa and the last one I had, NEVER needed repairs. Just wish I could remember the brand it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kreg Posted February 15, 2010 Report Share Posted February 15, 2010 Not to beat a dead horse, but finding a dealer that you feel comfortable with, and that will take care of you is perhaps the most important aspect of spa shopping. You can buy a great spa from a bad dealer and have a bad experience. Un-soldering and re-soldering anything to the circuit board is not a practice that Master Spas trains their dealers to do. I have never heard of such a thing, especially to remedy a heating problem. Again, see above. I am sorry to hear that you had this experience. If you bought the spa in 2002 and it is now 2010, there is no manufacturer on the face of the planet that has an 8 year parts and labor warranty. And I mean NO manufacturer PERIOD, not for a million dollar car, RV, TV, or any other luxury item you can buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spatech (the unreal one) Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 Nothing to be sorry about. I have visited a few more dealers and am having second thoughts about the Master. Not completely ruled out, but I am leaning towards one from another dealer, basically just giving up the radio and some warranty... Four Winds (Honolulu) Floor Model I don't know Four Winds and maybe this is an issue they've gotten behind them but you might want to know this going in and see what their response is. http://nashville.bizjournals.com/nashville...ml?surround=lfn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reeffreak Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 Nothing to be sorry about. I have visited a few more dealers and am having second thoughts about the Master. Not completely ruled out, but I am leaning towards one from another dealer, basically just giving up the radio and some warranty... Four Winds (Honolulu) Floor Model I don't know Four Winds and maybe this is an issue they've gotten behind them but you might want to know this going in and see what their response is. http://nashville.bizjournals.com/nashville...ml?surround=lfn Very interesting article, thanks for posting it. As a 4W owner (July 09 tub) I'll keep my eye on this. The suit alleges formula changes in 2009, and there were already 160 warranty claims, so it sounds like the issues are appearing quickly. If it is a formula problem, I wonder what the impact will be on the rest of the spa industry- 4W isn't the only outfit to use this shell bonding technique. $10M is a lot of jack to be asking for, they must anticipate a landslide of claims. I've been at the factory- several times. They seem to move a lot of product. Much of it appears to go to Europe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesIlsley Posted February 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 Nothing to be sorry about. I have visited a few more dealers and am having second thoughts about the Master. Not completely ruled out, but I am leaning towards one from another dealer, basically just giving up the radio and some warranty... Four Winds (Honolulu) Floor Model I don't know Four Winds and maybe this is an issue they've gotten behind them but you might want to know this going in and see what their response is. http://nashville.bizjournals.com/nashville...ml?surround=lfn Very interesting article, thanks for posting it. As a 4W owner (July 09 tub) I'll keep my eye on this. The suit alleges formula changes in 2009, and there were already 160 warranty claims, so it sounds like the issues are appearing quickly. If it is a formula problem, I wonder what the impact will be on the rest of the spa industry- 4W isn't the only outfit to use this shell bonding technique. $10M is a lot of jack to be asking for, they must anticipate a landslide of claims. I've been at the factory- several times. They seem to move a lot of product. Much of it appears to go to Europe. FABULOUS! Guess what I took delivery of today.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reeffreak Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 Nothing to be sorry about. I have visited a few more dealers and am having second thoughts about the Master. Not completely ruled out, but I am leaning towards one from another dealer, basically just giving up the radio and some warranty... Four Winds (Honolulu) Floor Model I don't know Four Winds and maybe this is an issue they've gotten behind them but you might want to know this going in and see what their response is. http://nashville.bizjournals.com/nashville...ml?surround=lfn Very interesting article, thanks for posting it. As a 4W owner (July 09 tub) I'll keep my eye on this. The suit alleges formula changes in 2009, and there were already 160 warranty claims, so it sounds like the issues are appearing quickly. If it is a formula problem, I wonder what the impact will be on the rest of the spa industry- 4W isn't the only outfit to use this shell bonding technique. $10M is a lot of jack to be asking for, they must anticipate a landslide of claims. I've been at the factory- several times. They seem to move a lot of product. Much of it appears to go to Europe. FABULOUS! Guess what I took delivery of today.... Don't panic... Enjoy your tub. 6 mo with mine NO problems with shell whatsoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spatech (the unreal one) Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 Nothing to be sorry about. I have visited a few more dealers and am having second thoughts about the Master. Not completely ruled out, but I am leaning towards one from another dealer, basically just giving up the radio and some warranty... Four Winds (Honolulu) Floor Model I don't know Four Winds and maybe this is an issue they've gotten behind them but you might want to know this going in and see what their response is. http://nashville.bizjournals.com/nashville...ml?surround=lfn Very interesting article, thanks for posting it. As a 4W owner (July 09 tub) I'll keep my eye on this. The suit alleges formula changes in 2009, and there were already 160 warranty claims, so it sounds like the issues are appearing quickly. If it is a formula problem, I wonder what the impact will be on the rest of the spa industry- 4W isn't the only outfit to use this shell bonding technique. $10M is a lot of jack to be asking for, they must anticipate a landslide of claims. I've been at the factory- several times. They seem to move a lot of product. Much of it appears to go to Europe. FABULOUS! Guess what I took delivery of today.... If I had a Four Wind or any other spa using this I'd just keep an eye on it. If there is an issue it should show itself within the warranty period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesIlsley Posted February 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2010 Well, the good (?) news is that my date of manufacture is 9/08 which looks like it is before this issues. Will keep an eye on it though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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