Anyone Made A Bleach Dispenser?

[Parawood]

I have been wondering if anyone is thinking along my train of thought? How difficult would it be to make a bleach dispenser that would pump in a few ounces of bleach several times during the day, adjustable , of course. The reservoir could be mounted behind the skirt where it would get some of the exposed heat surrounding it to keep it from freezing. The supply line could be T'eed with a one way valve. This would allow a more diverse addition of bleach throughout the day.

Anyone have any thoughts?

Parawood

[Dr. Spa]

Simple. Just need a peristaltic pump.

[PaulR]

Hasa makes something called The Liquidator, that does this.

[chem geek]

The Liquidator is for pools and uses a small bypass of the pump circulation flow to add chlorine which mostly sits at the bottom of the container while the upper layer is not as high in chlorine. They don't make a unit for a spa which obviously requires far smaller dosing.

The peristaltic pump would be the way to go for automated dosing. There is a discussion of The Liquidator vs. peristaltic pump in this thread and more on peristaltic pumps in this thread and this thread.

[reeffreak]

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/produc...osing-pump.html Use a timer to cycle it to match daily flow rate to average chlorine demand. Problem is that demand varies due to bather load.

Maybe somebody will develop a controller that uses Chlorine / PH / Alkalinity probes to automatically dose chemicals and keep the tub in balance. I'm surprised Balboa doesn't have this circuitry in some of their spa packs already. These have been around for years in the aquaria hobby. www.digitalaquatics.com

[hrustar]

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/produc...osing-pump.html Use a timer to cycle it to match daily flow rate to average chlorine demand. Problem is that demand varies due to bather load.

Maybe somebody will develop a controller that uses Chlorine / PH / Alkalinity probes to automatically dose chemicals and keep the tub in balance. I'm surprised Balboa doesn't have this circuitry in some of their spa packs already. These have been around for years in the aquaria hobby. www.digitalaquatics.com

I've been thinking along this same line. A client of mine makes a whole line of pumps. I disagree that a peristaltic pump would be the best option. I suggest a diaphragm metering pump such as the Hydra-cell. Very small, very efficient, highly accurate. I might mock one up when it gets warmer. I could use the bleach jug itself as a resovoir and fee directly into the plumbing via a bypass. Doing this would take care of vacation mode.

[reeffreak]

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/produc...osing-pump.html Use a timer to cycle it to match daily flow rate to average chlorine demand. Problem is that demand varies due to bather load.

Maybe somebody will develop a controller that uses Chlorine / PH / Alkalinity probes to automatically dose chemicals and keep the tub in balance. I'm surprised Balboa doesn't have this circuitry in some of their spa packs already. These have been around for years in the aquaria hobby. www.digitalaquatics.com

I've been thinking along this same line. A client of mine makes a whole line of pumps. I disagree that a peristaltic pump would be the best option. I suggest a diaphragm metering pump such as the Hydra-cell. Very small, very efficient, highly accurate. I might mock one up when it gets warmer. I could use the bleach jug itself as a resovoir and fee directly into the plumbing via a bypass. Doing this would take care of vacation mode.

If you're building a dosing system with a controller loop to turn the pump off/on, you need a very low flow rate so that you don't overshoot your target. How low do diaphragm meter pumps go? The peristaltic stuff is based on IV pumps in the hospitals, you can dial them down to as low as 1 ml/day, and the pump element exposed to the chemicals is a $3 hose. Very easy maintenance.

[reeffreak]

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod...u=0071275000000

is in theory a turnkey controller that would drive a dosing pump of your choice. Set it to the ORP level corresponding with the desired level of chlorine, plumb up the dosing pump to a jug of Clorox and you're done. Ozone system would interact with the feedback loop though.

[OttawaGreg]

What about a bleach floater?

When I am going to be away for a few days I'll throw back in my floater with one smarttab, which keeps it going till I get back. Once back I remove it and go back to bleach. If I will be away for a week or longer I would just add more tablets to the floater.

Would be nice if there was a floater equivalent that uses bleach. Of course being a liquid it will dissipate immediately. Is there a solid form of bleach?

Greg

[bart6453]

A guy could very easily make a timer circuit to run a pump for a desired time/frequency.

I make electronic clocks for a hobby, the circuit for this would be super easy.

My problem would be that I usually use a 12VDC supply but step it up to 500V on the board.....hmmm...it won't kill you but it will startle the hell out of you.

I suppose a guy could pot the unit inside a capsule....now you have me thinking.

What about an air over hydraulic type system????

You could use a circuit board to run an air pump (think small aquarium) which dumped it's air into a sealed system that contained bleach.

The air pressure would push the bleach up into your tub. If there was a failure of the pump or the circuit board there would be no contact with any liquids that could zap your arse.

[hrustar]

A guy could very easily make a timer circuit to run a pump for a desired time/frequency.

I make electronic clocks for a hobby, the circuit for this would be super easy.

My problem would be that I usually use a 12VDC supply but step it up to 500V on the board.....hmmm...it won't kill you but it will startle the hell out of you.

I suppose a guy could pot the unit inside a capsule....now you have me thinking.

What about an air over hydraulic type system????

You could use a circuit board to run an air pump (think small aquarium) which dumped it's air into a sealed system that contained bleach.

The air pressure would push the bleach up into your tub. If there was a failure of the pump or the circuit board there would be no contact with any liquids that could zap your arse.

I think the wir system could work, although I could also see downsides. I really don;t think this is that tough of a system to set up. I think we should design/propose some more systems on this thread with estimated costs.

[hrustar]

Another consideration is that bleach freezes. So the bleach container would have to be in a warm enclosure. Not sure if the pump compartment is warm enough. Otherwise, we'd need to construct some form of warmed enclosure.

[reeffreak]

A guy could very easily make a timer circuit to run a pump for a desired time/frequency.

I make electronic clocks for a hobby, the circuit for this would be super easy.

My problem would be that I usually use a 12VDC supply but step it up to 500V on the board.....hmmm...it won't kill you but it will startle the hell out of you.

I suppose a guy could pot the unit inside a capsule....now you have me thinking.

What about an air over hydraulic type system????

You could use a circuit board to run an air pump (think small aquarium) which dumped it's air into a sealed system that contained bleach.

The air pressure would push the bleach up into your tub. If there was a failure of the pump or the circuit board there would be no contact with any liquids that could zap your arse.

I think the wir system could work, although I could also see downsides. I really don;t think this is that tough of a system to set up. I think we should design/propose some more systems on this thread with estimated costs.

I've built an air driven dosing system using the methods you describe as an auto-top-off system for a reef aquarium. The problem is that you're getting into some $$ to get an air pump that will provide suitable lift to get the bleach over the wall. It worked on a very small aquarium, but the costs of the air pump for a larger tank quickly exceeded the $$ for a more traditional powerhead to directly pump water. The reef guys have a good head start in this field, we pump alkaline solutions into tanks to stabilize PH, alk, and Ca at very precise levels. The most reliable, cost effective approach is a quality peristaltic pump with a bleach resistant assembly (avoid latex). These systems totally isolate the solution being pumped from the drive mechanism. They are as safe (or safer) than the big pumps in a spa. In the early days reefers were picking up surplus IV pumps from hospitals, but now there are purpose-built systems at very affordable prices (see the bulk reef supply link in this thread). The ORP controllers are out there too, but you need to find one that has a suitable control range for chlorination/bromination. Some of the controllers for reef applications only work up to 500 mv or so (low level ozone dosing), and I've read that adequate sanitizer levels equate to a 600-800mv reading. Most of these controllers use a standard BNC connector equipped probe, and there are probe mfg's out there that produce inline devices that thread into a nipple inline with the plumbing just like a pressure or temp sensor. I think you could build a full control system for $2-300, including controller and dosing pump that would automatically maintain an ORP level off the shelf. For DIY with the ability to design and program IC, prob half that. Purpose built pool/spa systems seem to start at $2k and go north from there quickly. Drive the system from the 120v ozone circuit on your spa controller to dose only when the spa has flow (e.g circ pump running), and make sure the pump rate is adequate to keep up with sanitizer demand for whatever cycle your system uses. (My balboa VS is set to 2hr 2x daily). By driving from the spa controller, you also enjoy the benefit of the GFCI if voltage were induced into the vessel somehow.

Freezing could be a problem as hrustar points out (my clorox was slushy the other cold night), so ideally the system would be enclosed in the skirt of the tub. (may still not be adequate for very cold climates).

This project is definitely on the "to do" list, especially if I can pick a used pump or controller up.

[bart6453]

A guy could very easily make a timer circuit to run a pump for a desired time/frequency.

I make electronic clocks for a hobby, the circuit for this would be super easy.

My problem would be that I usually use a 12VDC supply but step it up to 500V on the board.....hmmm...it won't kill you but it will startle the hell out of you.

I suppose a guy could pot the unit inside a capsule....now you have me thinking.

What about an air over hydraulic type system????

You could use a circuit board to run an air pump (think small aquarium) which dumped it's air into a sealed system that contained bleach.

The air pressure would push the bleach up into your tub. If there was a failure of the pump or the circuit board there would be no contact with any liquids that could zap your arse.

I think the wir system could work, although I could also see downsides. I really don;t think this is that tough of a system to set up. I think we should design/propose some more systems on this thread with estimated costs.

I've built an air driven dosing system using the methods you describe as an auto-top-off system for a reef aquarium. The problem is that you're getting into some $$ to get an air pump that will provide suitable lift to get the bleach over the wall. It worked on a very small aquarium, but the costs of the air pump for a larger tank quickly exceeded the $$ for a more traditional powerhead to directly pump water. The reef guys have a good head start in this field, we pump alkaline solutions into tanks to stabilize PH, alk, and Ca at very precise levels. The most reliable, cost effective approach is a quality peristaltic pump with a bleach resistant assembly (avoid latex). These systems totally isolate the solution being pumped from the drive mechanism. They are as safe (or safer) than the big pumps in a spa. In the early days reefers were picking up surplus IV pumps from hospitals, but now there are purpose-built systems at very affordable prices (see the bulk reef supply link in this thread). The ORP controllers are out there too, but you need to find one that has a suitable control range for chlorination/bromination. Some of the controllers for reef applications only work up to 500 mv or so (low level ozone dosing), and I've read that adequate sanitizer levels equate to a 600-800mv reading. Most of these controllers use a standard BNC connector equipped probe, and there are probe mfg's out there that produce inline devices that thread into a nipple inline with the plumbing just like a pressure or temp sensor. I think you could build a full control system for $2-300, including controller and dosing pump that would automatically maintain an ORP level off the shelf. For DIY with the ability to design and program IC, prob half that. Purpose built pool/spa systems seem to start at $2k and go north from there quickly. Drive the system from the 120v ozone circuit on your spa controller to dose only when the spa has flow (e.g circ pump running), and make sure the pump rate is adequate to keep up with sanitizer demand for whatever cycle your system uses. (My balboa VS is set to 2hr 2x daily). By driving from the spa controller, you also enjoy the benefit of the GFCI if voltage were induced into the vessel somehow.

Freezing could be a problem as hrustar points out (my clorox was slushy the other cold night), so ideally the system would be enclosed in the skirt of the tub. (may still not be adequate for very cold climates).

This project is definitely on the "to do" list, especially if I can pick a used pump or controller up.

You bring up a very, very easy solution.

I have a couple of friends who are doctors so I asked them about the IV pumps.

well...even very old IV pumps have timers and dosages built into their programming.

So all you would need would be an old surplus IV pump and set it to pump say a quarter ounce 8 times a day or whatever...and you are done.

The freezing issue could be handled by putting the bleach beneath the skirt of the tub, or you could put it in a cooler with a thermostatically controlled heating pad in it that would turn on when the temp is below say 20 degrees or what have you.

Assuming you could get the IV pump for next to nothing, you would still have next to nothing invested.

[hrustar]

I like the IV pump idea. I have a buddy who sells used medical devices. Typically he handles big dollar items, but maybe he could help me track one down.

[bart6453]

I like the IV pump idea. I have a buddy who sells used medical devices. Typically he handles big dollar items, but maybe he could help me track one down.

There you go....and BOB'S YOUR UNCLE!

[Parawood]

Would one be able to place a y connector into 0ne of the jets ( similar to the ozone connector )? A one way valve would need to be used, of course.

Also, how would an IV bag and tubing hold up to bleach?

Parawood

[reeffreak]

Would one be able to place a y connector into 0ne of the jets ( similar to the ozone connector )? A one way valve would need to be used, of course.

Also, how would an IV bag and tubing hold up to bleach?

Parawood

You don't need to use an IV bag. Pump straight from the clorox jug. drill the cap and install nipples (google RC fuel can fittings) for a clean install. Use santoprene, tygon(?), or similar bleach safe tubing for connections. Use 12% bleach solution in cold climates (freeze point much lower, may mitigate freeze problems).

I think IV tubing is fairly inert. if you're going the IV pump route, check on lifespan and costs of replacing the pump tubing from time to time. I don't know much about them, Infusion gear is generally disposable (lifespan?), and med supplies ain't cheap. Surplus IV pumps are all over ebay btw.

I'd be curious how effective timer-based automation is. The sanitizer demands of my spa seem highly dependent on bather load. When i go down the automation path, I'm going the ORP route for a full closed control loop. So the tub stays in balance whether 6 pre-teens spend the day in there, or it sits unused for a week.

[bart6453]

Would one be able to place a y connector into 0ne of the jets ( similar to the ozone connector )? A one way valve would need to be used, of course.

Also, how would an IV bag and tubing hold up to bleach?

Parawood

You don't need to use an IV bag. Pump straight from the clorox jug. drill the cap and install nipples (google RC fuel can fittings) for a clean install. Use santoprene, tygon(?), or similar bleach safe tubing for connections. Use 12% bleach solution in cold climates (freeze point much lower, may mitigate freeze problems).

I think IV tubing is fairly inert. if you're going the IV pump route, check on lifespan and costs of replacing the pump tubing from time to time. I don't know much about them, Infusion gear is generally disposable (lifespan?), and med supplies ain't cheap. Surplus IV pumps are all over ebay btw.

I'd be curious how effective timer-based automation is. The sanitizer demands of my spa seem highly dependent on bather load. When i go down the automation path, I'm going the ORP route for a full closed control loop. So the tub stays in balance whether 6 pre-teens spend the day in there, or it sits unused for a week.

+1

I am game for a proof of concept more than anything.

Automation would be nice for daily maintenance and then have a override amount to squirt in during or after a soak and after you test your levels. Would be nice to not have any spilled bleach anywhere.