SJ Hart Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 When I turn my air on, my water turns white, bubbles and fizzes like champagne gone wild! However, I notice that when I first change my water, it doesn't really do this. What causes this to happen over time? I do have an Ozone which seems to constantly pump "bubbles" into the spa. Thanks. SJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 It's called sluggish water. Three questions: 1. Is your water balanced? 2. Are you using enough sanitizer? 3. How old is your water? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bart6453 Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 It's called sluggish water. Three questions: 1. Is your water balanced? 2. Are you using enough sanitizer? 3. How old is your water? Is it a surfactant/surface tension problem???? I have this issue as well. My water is balanced, I keep my sanitizer between 5ppm and 2ppm...the water is older, and admittedly my filters need to be replaced which is why my CD is a bit to close to 50% for my liking. To be honest...I kind of like it....it makes me feel like I am sitting in champagne...or beer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Spa Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 It's probably high TDS (total dissolved solids) levels. As air is injected into the water through the jet, it's cooler than the water. The coolness of the air bubble causes the dissolved solids in the water to to precipitate or solidify around the air bubble (kind of like blowing soap bubbles). Once it warms back up it redissolves back into the water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJ Hart Posted September 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 It's called sluggish water. Three questions: 1. Is your water balanced? 2. Are you using enough sanitizer? 3. How old is your water? Water is balanced (alk is bit low: 50/60, but pH is very stable at around 7.6, Hardness around 240). Using Bromine (always around 3-4). Water is about 2 months old. Have an ozone system. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 It's called sluggish water. Three questions: 1. Is your water balanced? 2. Are you using enough sanitizer? 3. How old is your water? Water is balanced (alk is bit low: 50/60, but pH is very stable at around 7.6, Hardness around 240). Using Bromine (always around 3-4). Water is about 2 months old. Have an ozone system. Thanks. I tend to agree with Dr. Spa, High TDS. Your Calcium Hardness (I assume that's what you're referring to) is kind of high. Do you have well water by chance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJ Hart Posted September 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 It's called sluggish water. Three questions: 1. Is your water balanced? 2. Are you using enough sanitizer? 3. How old is your water? Water is balanced (alk is bit low: 50/60, but pH is very stable at around 7.6, Hardness around 240). Using Bromine (always around 3-4). Water is about 2 months old. Have an ozone system. Thanks. I tend to agree with Dr. Spa, High TDS. Your Calcium Hardness (I assume that's what you're referring to) is kind of high. Do you have well water by chance? No, I actually added chemicals to to raise my hardness. We have very soft water in our area. thought that was causing it. I'm wondering if it is all the ALC increaser I added (and then had to reduce PH). Before you gave me the feedback to not add ALC increaser if my pH was stable. Maybe the water had had too much added to it. Next time I refill I'm going to try and minimize a bit. Thanks. SJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike J1 Posted September 26, 2009 Report Share Posted September 26, 2009 When I turn my air on, my water turns white, bubbles and fizzes like champagne gone wild! However, I notice that when I first change my water, it doesn't really do this. What causes this to happen over time? I do have an Ozone which seems to constantly pump "bubbles" into the spa. Thanks. SJ The same thing happens to me about 3 weeks after I change water. Water chemistry typically looks good. I figured this was typical? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2smart Posted September 26, 2009 Report Share Posted September 26, 2009 When I turn my air on, my water turns white, bubbles and fizzes like champagne gone wild! However, I notice that when I first change my water, it doesn't really do this. What causes this to happen over time? I do have an Ozone which seems to constantly pump "bubbles" into the spa. Thanks. SJ The same thing happens to me about 3 weeks after I change water. Water chemistry typically looks good. I figured this was typical? Alkalinity to low! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJ Hart Posted September 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2009 I know mine is low (50-60), but my water is balanced (solid pH with no drift) and was given feedback on this forum that this would be OK.... SJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike J1 Posted September 26, 2009 Report Share Posted September 26, 2009 When I turn my air on, my water turns white, bubbles and fizzes like champagne gone wild! However, I notice that when I first change my water, it doesn't really do this. What causes this to happen over time? I do have an Ozone which seems to constantly pump "bubbles" into the spa. Thanks. SJ The same thing happens to me about 3 weeks after I change water. Water chemistry typically looks good. I figured this was typical? Alkalinity to low! I will check...thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukmoon Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 When I turn my air on, my water turns white, bubbles and fizzes like champagne gone wild! However, I notice that when I first change my water, it doesn't really do this. What causes this to happen over time? I do have an Ozone which seems to constantly pump "bubbles" into the spa. Thanks. SJ The same thing happens to me about 3 weeks after I change water. Water chemistry typically looks good. I figured this was typical? Same thing happened to me. I have a fresh fill about 3 weeks ago. Used 2 pre-filters inline. And used the pool calculator to find best alkalinity. Started at: CH:200 AL:220 PH:8.3 Now at: CH:200 AL:90 PH:7.8 Borate:50 CYA:around 30 now using 6% bleach and occasional MPS shock when I find chlorine demand is getting too high. I'm not sure exactly when the fizzing and cloudy water with jets on started, and I'm tempted to drain and start over. I think it may be due to using too many balancing chemicals and too high initial TDS or just excessive usage (only had tub 2 months, this is the 2nd fill). Water is clear when jets are not on but then something precipitates out of the water with jets on. I've ordered some Sea-Klear to see if this will cure it. Will let you know how it goes. If it doesn't clear it up then the next fill will try using the water softener from the house and starting with a lower CH. I read somewhere that calcium can precipitate under certain conditions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukmoon Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 When I turn my air on, my water turns white, bubbles and fizzes like champagne gone wild! However, I notice that when I first change my water, it doesn't really do this. What causes this to happen over time? I do have an Ozone which seems to constantly pump "bubbles" into the spa. Thanks. SJ The same thing happens to me about 3 weeks after I change water. Water chemistry typically looks good. I figured this was typical? Same thing happened to me. I have a fresh fill about 3 weeks ago. Used 2 pre-filters inline. And used the pool calculator to find best alkalinity. Started at: CH:200 AL:220 PH:8.3 Now at: CH:200 AL:90 PH:7.8 Borate:50 CYA:around 30 now using 6% bleach and occasional MPS shock when I find chlorine demand is getting too high. I'm not sure exactly when the fizzing and cloudy water with jets on started, and I'm tempted to drain and start over. I think it may be due to using too many balancing chemicals and too high initial TDS or just excessive usage (only had tub 2 months, this is the 2nd fill). Water is clear when jets are not on but then something precipitates out of the water with jets on. I've ordered some Sea-Klear to see if this will cure it. Will let you know how it goes. If it doesn't clear it up then the next fill will try using the water softener from the house and starting with a lower CH. I read somewhere that calcium can precipitate under certain conditions? Put more thought into this and i've not tried the Sea-Klear yet, it will take another week to be delivered, but I don't think a clarifier is going to help. Our town water is known to be notoriously hard. I think I will drain and refill with soft water so I can then hold a higher alkalinity and still have balanced water (due to lower CH) and then the higher alkalinity should stop the fizzing/cloudy water with jets on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aschwartz Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 When I turn my air on, my water turns white, bubbles and fizzes like champagne gone wild! However, I notice that when I first change my water, it doesn't really do this. What causes this to happen over time? I do have an Ozone which seems to constantly pump "bubbles" into the spa. Thanks. SJ The same thing happens to me about 3 weeks after I change water. Water chemistry typically looks good. I figured this was typical? Same thing happened to me. I have a fresh fill about 3 weeks ago. Used 2 pre-filters inline. And used the pool calculator to find best alkalinity. Started at: CH:200 AL:220 PH:8.3 Now at: CH:200 AL:90 PH:7.8 Borate:50 CYA:around 30 now using 6% bleach and occasional MPS shock when I find chlorine demand is getting too high. I'm not sure exactly when the fizzing and cloudy water with jets on started, and I'm tempted to drain and start over. I think it may be due to using too many balancing chemicals and too high initial TDS or just excessive usage (only had tub 2 months, this is the 2nd fill). Water is clear when jets are not on but then something precipitates out of the water with jets on. I've ordered some Sea-Klear to see if this will cure it. Will let you know how it goes. If it doesn't clear it up then the next fill will try using the water softener from the house and starting with a lower CH. I read somewhere that calcium can precipitate under certain conditions? Put more thought into this and i've not tried the Sea-Klear yet, it will take another week to be delivered, but I don't think a clarifier is going to help. Our town water is known to be notoriously hard. I think I will drain and refill with soft water so I can then hold a higher alkalinity and still have balanced water (due to lower CH) and then the higher alkalinity should stop the fizzing/cloudy water with jets on. Foaming or fizzing can be a sign of a bacterial biofilm contamination. When spas are free of biofilm and the water chemistry is in balance, the water will be clear and foam free. Bacterial biofilms are everywhere in our enviornment when water and a surface come together. Hot tubs are the perfect opportunity for biofilm formation because bacteria love temperatures of 98 dgrees or higher. Once biofilm is formed, sanitizers in normal dosages do not penetrate them leaving up to 99% of the bacteria present to remain active and multiply. This understanding of biofilm and how to treat it is important because scientists now recognize that more than 80% of water management issue are biofilm related. You can learn more about biofilm research by going to Montana State University's Center for Biofilm Engineering's web site at http://www.erc.montana.edu/. It appears as though Combined Chlorines can result from biofilm contamination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukmoon Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 When I turn my air on, my water turns white, bubbles and fizzes like champagne gone wild! However, I notice that when I first change my water, it doesn't really do this. What causes this to happen over time? I do have an Ozone which seems to constantly pump "bubbles" into the spa. Thanks. SJ The same thing happens to me about 3 weeks after I change water. Water chemistry typically looks good. I figured this was typical? Same thing happened to me. I have a fresh fill about 3 weeks ago. Used 2 pre-filters inline. And used the pool calculator to find best alkalinity. Started at: CH:200 AL:220 PH:8.3 Now at: CH:200 AL:90 PH:7.8 Borate:50 CYA:around 30 now using 6% bleach and occasional MPS shock when I find chlorine demand is getting too high. I'm not sure exactly when the fizzing and cloudy water with jets on started, and I'm tempted to drain and start over. I think it may be due to using too many balancing chemicals and too high initial TDS or just excessive usage (only had tub 2 months, this is the 2nd fill). Water is clear when jets are not on but then something precipitates out of the water with jets on. I've ordered some Sea-Klear to see if this will cure it. Will let you know how it goes. If it doesn't clear it up then the next fill will try using the water softener from the house and starting with a lower CH. I read somewhere that calcium can precipitate under certain conditions? Put more thought into this and i've not tried the Sea-Klear yet, it will take another week to be delivered, but I don't think a clarifier is going to help. Our town water is known to be notoriously hard. I think I will drain and refill with soft water so I can then hold a higher alkalinity and still have balanced water (due to lower CH) and then the higher alkalinity should stop the fizzing/cloudy water with jets on. Foaming or fizzing can be a sign of a bacterial biofilm contamination. When spas are free of biofilm and the water chemistry is in balance, the water will be clear and foam free. Bacterial biofilms are everywhere in our enviornment when water and a surface come together. Hot tubs are the perfect opportunity for biofilm formation because bacteria love temperatures of 98 dgrees or higher. Once biofilm is formed, sanitizers in normal dosages do not penetrate them leaving up to 99% of the bacteria present to remain active and multiply. This understanding of biofilm and how to treat it is important because scientists now recognize that more than 80% of water management issue are biofilm related. You can learn more about biofilm research by going to Montana State University's Center for Biofilm Engineering's web site at http://www.erc.montana.edu/. It appears as though Combined Chlorines can result from biofilm contamination. Thanks! I will read up on biofilm. I did not mention that I did 'lose' control of my tub once on this current fill. On day 4 and 5 day of fresh fill I didn't add my dichlor (because dealer said I wouldn't have to keep it always above 0ppm because of MPS) and tub went cloudy (without jets) I got it back by shocking and then found this forum and switched to bleach. So maybe biofilm was created and still exists in tub. So the tub can be crystal clear before getting in and still contain biofilm? I'm going to try increasing Alkalinity tonight from 80 to 100 to see if it changes fizzing. If not I will refill this weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukmoon Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 When I turn my air on, my water turns white, bubbles and fizzes like champagne gone wild! However, I notice that when I first change my water, it doesn't really do this. What causes this to happen over time? I do have an Ozone which seems to constantly pump "bubbles" into the spa. Thanks. SJ The same thing happens to me about 3 weeks after I change water. Water chemistry typically looks good. I figured this was typical? Same thing happened to me. I have a fresh fill about 3 weeks ago. Used 2 pre-filters inline. And used the pool calculator to find best alkalinity. Started at: CH:200 AL:220 PH:8.3 Now at: CH:200 AL:90 PH:7.8 Borate:50 CYA:around 30 now using 6% bleach and occasional MPS shock when I find chlorine demand is getting too high. I'm not sure exactly when the fizzing and cloudy water with jets on started, and I'm tempted to drain and start over. I think it may be due to using too many balancing chemicals and too high initial TDS or just excessive usage (only had tub 2 months, this is the 2nd fill). Water is clear when jets are not on but then something precipitates out of the water with jets on. I've ordered some Sea-Klear to see if this will cure it. Will let you know how it goes. If it doesn't clear it up then the next fill will try using the water softener from the house and starting with a lower CH. I read somewhere that calcium can precipitate under certain conditions? Put more thought into this and i've not tried the Sea-Klear yet, it will take another week to be delivered, but I don't think a clarifier is going to help. Our town water is known to be notoriously hard. I think I will drain and refill with soft water so I can then hold a higher alkalinity and still have balanced water (due to lower CH) and then the higher alkalinity should stop the fizzing/cloudy water with jets on. Foaming or fizzing can be a sign of a bacterial biofilm contamination. When spas are free of biofilm and the water chemistry is in balance, the water will be clear and foam free. Bacterial biofilms are everywhere in our enviornment when water and a surface come together. Hot tubs are the perfect opportunity for biofilm formation because bacteria love temperatures of 98 dgrees or higher. Once biofilm is formed, sanitizers in normal dosages do not penetrate them leaving up to 99% of the bacteria present to remain active and multiply. This understanding of biofilm and how to treat it is important because scientists now recognize that more than 80% of water management issue are biofilm related. You can learn more about biofilm research by going to Montana State University's Center for Biofilm Engineering's web site at http://www.erc.montana.edu/. It appears as though Combined Chlorines can result from biofilm contamination. I read some on biofilm and i don't think this can be my issue. my tub is only 2 months old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukmoon Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 When I turn my air on, my water turns white, bubbles and fizzes like champagne gone wild! However, I notice that when I first change my water, it doesn't really do this. What causes this to happen over time? I do have an Ozone which seems to constantly pump "bubbles" into the spa. Thanks. SJ The same thing happens to me about 3 weeks after I change water. Water chemistry typically looks good. I figured this was typical? Same thing happened to me. I have a fresh fill about 3 weeks ago. Used 2 pre-filters inline. And used the pool calculator to find best alkalinity. Started at: CH:200 AL:220 PH:8.3 Now at: CH:200 AL:90 PH:7.8 Borate:50 CYA:around 30 now using 6% bleach and occasional MPS shock when I find chlorine demand is getting too high. I'm not sure exactly when the fizzing and cloudy water with jets on started, and I'm tempted to drain and start over. I think it may be due to using too many balancing chemicals and too high initial TDS or just excessive usage (only had tub 2 months, this is the 2nd fill). Water is clear when jets are not on but then something precipitates out of the water with jets on. I've ordered some Sea-Klear to see if this will cure it. Will let you know how it goes. If it doesn't clear it up then the next fill will try using the water softener from the house and starting with a lower CH. I read somewhere that calcium can precipitate under certain conditions? Put more thought into this and i've not tried the Sea-Klear yet, it will take another week to be delivered, but I don't think a clarifier is going to help. Our town water is known to be notoriously hard. I think I will drain and refill with soft water so I can then hold a higher alkalinity and still have balanced water (due to lower CH) and then the higher alkalinity should stop the fizzing/cloudy water with jets on. Foaming or fizzing can be a sign of a bacterial biofilm contamination. When spas are free of biofilm and the water chemistry is in balance, the water will be clear and foam free. Bacterial biofilms are everywhere in our enviornment when water and a surface come together. Hot tubs are the perfect opportunity for biofilm formation because bacteria love temperatures of 98 dgrees or higher. Once biofilm is formed, sanitizers in normal dosages do not penetrate them leaving up to 99% of the bacteria present to remain active and multiply. This understanding of biofilm and how to treat it is important because scientists now recognize that more than 80% of water management issue are biofilm related. You can learn more about biofilm research by going to Montana State University's Center for Biofilm Engineering's web site at http://www.erc.montana.edu/. It appears as though Combined Chlorines can result from biofilm contamination. I read some on biofilm and i don't think this can be my issue. my tub is only 2 months old. I checked Alkalinity before increasing it and it was not 90 like I thought it had dropped to 50! Bringing up the Alkalinity slowly will see if fizzing/cloudy water (with jets on) starts to disappears. What is the difference between Alkalinity increaser Ph increaser/baking soda? Alkalinity increaser will raise alkalinity and not Ph? and Ph increaser/baking soda will raise Ph and Alkalinity as a result? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJ Hart Posted October 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 I can't seem to raise my Alkalinity without raising/impacting my pH. pH seems to be something you want to have correct and therefore I've left my Alkalinity low. Sometimes it goes as low as 40-50, but pH remains solid. Might be time to empty my spa, but at 580 gallons and with high water costs/drought conditions in our area, I don't like to do it more than I need to! SJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukmoon Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 Brought Alkalinity up to 110 and added some clarifier last night. This morning water was as clear as new. Turned jets on full and fizzing started again and water goes cloudy. Turn of jets and it does clear much faster now. Its not the end of the world, not going to spend much more time on it but just curious as to what causes this. I guess I will wait till next fill and watch when it starts to fizz again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aschwartz Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 When I turn my air on, my water turns white, bubbles and fizzes like champagne gone wild! However, I notice that when I first change my water, it doesn't really do this. What causes this to happen over time? I do have an Ozone which seems to constantly pump "bubbles" into the spa. Thanks. SJ The same thing happens to me about 3 weeks after I change water. Water chemistry typically looks good. I figured this was typical? Same thing happened to me. I have a fresh fill about 3 weeks ago. Used 2 pre-filters inline. And used the pool calculator to find best alkalinity. Started at: CH:200 AL:220 PH:8.3 Now at: CH:200 AL:90 PH:7.8 Borate:50 CYA:around 30 now using 6% bleach and occasional MPS shock when I find chlorine demand is getting too high. I'm not sure exactly when the fizzing and cloudy water with jets on started, and I'm tempted to drain and start over. I think it may be due to using too many balancing chemicals and too high initial TDS or just excessive usage (only had tub 2 months, this is the 2nd fill). Water is clear when jets are not on but then something precipitates out of the water with jets on. I've ordered some Sea-Klear to see if this will cure it. Will let you know how it goes. If it doesn't clear it up then the next fill will try using the water softener from the house and starting with a lower CH. I read somewhere that calcium can precipitate under certain conditions? Put more thought into this and i've not tried the Sea-Klear yet, it will take another week to be delivered, but I don't think a clarifier is going to help. Our town water is known to be notoriously hard. I think I will drain and refill with soft water so I can then hold a higher alkalinity and still have balanced water (due to lower CH) and then the higher alkalinity should stop the fizzing/cloudy water with jets on. Foaming or fizzing can be a sign of a bacterial biofilm contamination. When spas are free of biofilm and the water chemistry is in balance, the water will be clear and foam free. Bacterial biofilms are everywhere in our enviornment when water and a surface come together. Hot tubs are the perfect opportunity for biofilm formation because bacteria love temperatures of 98 dgrees or higher. Once biofilm is formed, sanitizers in normal dosages do not penetrate them leaving up to 99% of the bacteria present to remain active and multiply. This understanding of biofilm and how to treat it is important because scientists now recognize that more than 80% of water management issue are biofilm related. You can learn more about biofilm research by going to Montana State University's Center for Biofilm Engineering's web site at http://www.erc.montana.edu/. It appears as though Combined Chlorines can result from biofilm contamination. I read some on biofilm and i don't think this can be my issue. my tub is only 2 months old. Biofilm can be present in a brand new spa. Spa builders test their spa with water that is used repeatedly. There is no way to completely remove the water in the spa once it is introduced. They then seal the spa with a wrap and store the spa for delivery. This is a perfect opportunity for bacterial biofilm development. We have found biofilm in the majority of new spa we have tested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukmoon Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 What can you do to clean Biofilm if you have it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillbilly Hot Tub Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 Its the TDS Dr. Spa tells of this in the beginning posts and I agree. Foam and fizz are different, biofilm is involved with foam, Everytime you add chemicals you are adding to the TDS. Everytime a body is in the tub it adds to the TDS. The cloudy is just air mixed in the water if it is clearing within 5 minutes off shutting the jets off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukmoon Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 Thanks HHT! You have calmed my nerves. It clears even faster now, in about 30 seconds, now that I have added a bit of clarifier. I am not getting any foam only the fizz with jets and air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJ Hart Posted October 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 I agree. My water does NOT foam up. It just gets really fizzy and cloudy with the air jets on. Clears right up after I turn the air off. Even if I run the jets without the air, the water stays fairly clear. SJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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