Good Filter Soaking Chem?

[tjbrew]

I've had my spa for less then six months and am constantly learning ...

I have two sets of filters that I rotate weekly. My owner's manual and other sources

suggested that I use TSP to soak the filters. I found TSP to be a far from stellar performer.

It did not do a great job cleaning the filters, leaving them looking a little dirty and sometimes

not smelling so good, even after drying. TSP also ruined my Zorbo scum absorbers, which I

had to throw out. (I never had a scum line while using them, so I think they work well. Now I have a line,

time to get some new Zorbos).

Being a homebrewer I have several cleaning and soaking methods for various vessels and equipment.

I use PBW (Powdered Brewery Wash) for the toughest brew kettle and fermenter cleaning.

I recently switched to PBW for soaking my spa filters and it works great! They come out looking like new

and smell fresh after they're dry.

I'm interested to hear what Chemgeek thinks about using sodium metasilicate (active ingredient in PBW)

for cleaning spa equipment (filters). Below is a link to the MSDS:

http://www.fivestarchemicals.com/msds/pbw.pdf

I'm not endorsing or selling this product for profit. In fact I'd like to find a more generic source of sodium metasilicate

because PBW is kind of expensive (~ $4-5/lb.)

[Nitro]

Interesting. I'm curious to know also.

[chem geek]

Are you sure that you used real TSP and not what is normally sold today as a TSP substitute? Real TSP is only trisodium phosphate. Substitute TSP is often mostly sodium carbonate and is not an effective cleaner for filters -- most products labeled as TSP have other ingredients and either no or less than half actual TSP. Sodium metasilicate, trisodium phosphate, and sodium carbonate all have in common the property that when dissolved in water the pH rises (i.e. the water is alkaline). Sodium metasilicate is a fairly strong base. All of these have the property similar to lye (think Drano) that breaks down organic compounds (think grease) mostly via the very high pH.

As for whether sodium metasilicate or even plain lye would be as effective as a cleaner, that's something to determine by experience. If you really used true TSP, then it would seem sodium metasilicate could be better. If you used what was claimed to be TSP but was really a substitute, then it wasn't a fair comparison.

Waterbear may know more about sodium metasilicate or other alternative cleaners.

Richard

[tjbrew]

Are you sure that you used real TSP and not what is normally sold today as a TSP substitute? Real TSP is only trisodium phosphate. Substitute TSP is often mostly sodium carbonate and is not an effective cleaner for filters -- most products labeled as TSP have other ingredients and either no or less than half actual TSP. Sodium metasilicate, trisodium phosphate, and sodium carbonate all have in common the property that when dissolved in water the pH rises (i.e. the water is alkaline). Sodium metasilicate is a fairly strong base. All of these have the property similar to lye (think Drano) that breaks down organic compounds (think grease) mostly via the very high pH.

As for whether sodium metasilicate or even plain lye would be as effective as a cleaner, that's something to determine by experience. If you really used true TSP, then it would seem sodium metasilicate could be better. If you used what was claimed to be TSP but was really a substitute, then it wasn't a fair comparison.

Waterbear may know more about sodium metasilicate or other alternative cleaners.

Richard

[tjbrew]

I believe I was using the real thing. I have two boxes of TSP ... one is the more environmentally acceptable one (substitutes) and one is just plain TSP. I didn't think either one worked well.

Now after a few weekly soakings in PBW my filters are clean and white all the way to the innermost part of the pleats.

PBW is marketed to brewers as a safe, environmentally friendly alternative to the customary caustic cleaners:

"PBW stands for Powdered Brewery Wash, which is a non-hazardous buffered alkaline brewery cleaner. It is the cleaner of choice for many breweries where it out performs more hazardous caustic chemicals without removing the flesh off your bones. It will not corrode soft metals. " - from morebeer.com

Is PBW greener than TSP?

Is either one going to prematurely break down your filters?

[Benjamin Deming]

If you're looking for a more available form of TSP, you can find it in many pressure/power washing solutions. Most of them are real TSP. Look in Home Depot, Lowe's, or any home supply store. Try soaking it in a solution like that.

[Jim F]

I have read on this forum that filters can be soaked in a 5 or 10% muriatic solution to remove mineral and other residues.

Does it make sense to routinely disinfect filters by soaking them during the cleaning process in a solution of bleach/ 12% liquid chlorine?

If so, what would be the correct dilution?

(Nitro, you didnt cover this in your Decontamination post)

[Nitro]

I have read on this forum that filters can be soaked in a 5 or 10% muriatic solution to remove mineral and other residues.

Only if the filter is clean (free of oils etc.) using TSP. Otherwise you'll ruin the filter.

Does it make sense to routinely disinfect filters by soaking them during the cleaning process in a solution of bleach/ 12% liquid chlorine?

My opinion is no, as long as it's kept dry. As soon as you put the filter in the tub, it will be sanitized.

(Nitro, you didnt cover this in your Decontamination post)

In the Decon procedure I said, "Make sure you remove your filter before adding this product. Better yet, buy a new filter.". This is because, usually if the tub needs Decontaminated, the filter is probably bad.

With that said, you can (should) put the filter back in before step 5, if you plan on keeping the old one. The high Chlorine will supershock the filter also. I'll edit the post. Thanks for mentioning it.

[nube]

I haven't had much luck with TSP either.  I'll check to be sure it's really TSP.  I am a home brewer also and am planning to try PBW. 

tjbrew, what solution of PBW did you use?  How much did you mix into your cleaning solution?

Thanks

[RDspaguy]

Hi nube. Tjbrew has not been to this forum since 2011. I doubt he will respond. You should start a new thread instead of responding to an 11 year old dead thread. You will get more notice and therefore more help.