Buying Used

[awitowsk]

Hi all. I started looking into buying a used spa a few weeks ago and have been searching the internet and this forum for tips and advice. I am looking to get the best value in a used spa. I have already found quite a bit of good information, but would like any input from members who would make changes if they were buying again. I am going to a spa show at a convention center for some general information this weekend, (not to buy) anything particular I should look for/ask in general?

I am 26, wife, no children. Our primary criteria is the reliability over the massaging features. We basically want something to soak in and water movement more for ambiance than massage. We rent a vacation house every year with a large sundance spa (very nice) and most of the time have the jets turned off and use the seats more than the lounger. We are still up in the air on weather to get a small 3/4 person or larger size. Most of the time it will be just us. Opinions?

Buying new is out of the question. I realize with used installation will be entirely up to us as well as the maintenance with no warranty. I liked the sundance and there is a 2003 optima available locally. If we really won't be using the jets/blower all that much are the extra features worth the potential possible problems over a less complex system? Used Leisure bay tubs seem to be very easy to come by and half the price of the sundance. However I have read the horror stories of them and rec warehouse, hard to tell if its the terrible service or the tubs are really that poorly made. (I know they are cheap and weigh half as much as quality spa) What would your suggestions be for the most headache free? Quality name brand and more advanced, or simple and less complicated? Most likely the spa will already be 5-10 years old. Any specific brands or models to look for?

As far as moving one I have a trailer and 4 guys, which isn't all that much. I see the larger spas can weigh upwards of 900lbs empty. Would removing the pumps/blower if it has one be worth the hassle to try and reduce the weight? Are there any certain dollies/methods/advice to recommend outside of a forklift or crane?

Thanks, Alex

[elbrecht]

As far as moving one I have a trailer and 4 guys, which isn't all that much. I see the larger spas can weigh upwards of 900lbs empty. Would removing the pumps/blower if it has one be worth the hassle to try and reduce the weight? Are there any certain dollies/methods/advice to recommend outside of a forklift or crane?

My tub is about 8x8overall and weighs 600lbs empty. I have a 4x8 trailer. I removed the sides so it was a flatbed and put a couple 4x4s down so the tub would clear the fenders. tied it down good and drove slow- I wouldn't have taken it on an interstate, but it was fine for 20 miles of secondary roads.

4 lengths of 3"pvc pipe, a couple levers, and 2 1/2 men rolled it up on the trailer. [actually we got it almost there & it was crooked, so one guy lifted the back and pushed it on while the others watched & said. .. 'whaaaa. . . ?' I unloaded it by myself, but I used some lube on the 4x4s and a come-along to get it started up the grade where I wanted it. Worked on it there for a week, then slid it in place [about 10 feet away and down 3 feet] by myself.

I got my 2001 thermospa off Cragslist for $600. The owner said it had heating problems and the pump didn't seem to be working as well as it used to. I ended up buying a new pump online for $200 [the impeller wouldn't come off the old one- it is in the basement & will become a backup pump when I get to it. Probably the lack of flow was the heater problem, but I replaced the element for $30 while I had things torn up. New insulation & electrical service ran a couple hundred more. So for $1000 or so we've got a tub that I use every day. Couldn't be happier.

The only thing I'd do differently is follow HillbillyHottubs advice for sanitizing a tub- over on the chemistry forum. I haven't had any troubles, but get the creepy crawlies every time I read about folliculitis over there.

Jim

[Trigger]

I'm going to bet dollars to donuts that the spa show you are going to is going to be a sham. I be this is the infamou Master Spa traveling road show that a shady dealer brings across the US every year.

Be warned. There wont be 16 different spa manufactuers there. There will be only one; Master. There might be a few gazebo's and such as well. This is an incrediably high pressure sales enviroment. DO NOT BUY A SPA THERE. I don't care what they tell you. Do not buy there.

That being said, I wouldn't remove any equipment when trying to move the spa. I think that would be an unncessary risk.

As far as what to stay away from? I'd stay away from spas with TV's or fancy gimmicks.

Stick with the major brands, make sure yuo see the used tub filled and running. There's a reason you see a lot of the lower end spas being sold. Folks aren't happy with them.

If you live in a cold climate, you'll notice a big increase in electrical costs. The budget brand tubs are notorious for poor insualtion.

Stick with a quality brand. And the better names usually don't have a ton of bells and whistles, get a nice basic Hotpsrings, or Sundance, Tiger river, Caldera....all good names.

Plan on adding new filters, and chances are you may have to invest in a new cover too. But in this economoy, I bet there are quite a few deals out there.

As far as size goes, Unless you have space restrictions, I'd suggest at least a 5-6 seater. That will usually fit 4 adults comfortably. You want a nice variety seats and jetting. Even if it's just you and your wife, it's nice to have a variety of seating and jets to choose from. When I soak I typically work my way around the whole tub, and let each seat massage it's targeted group (upper back, lower back, calfs, neck...etc).

good luck.

[awitowsk]

Thanks Guys, good advice.

I am planning to rent a U haul flatbed which I have used for projects in the past. I like the skid idea and levers. Once I find one and know what type of location I will be moving it from I will try to work out a plan. Is there a safe way to move them standing up on edge? Possibly building a temporary frame? To get from the driveway to the back yard is only about 4' wide unless I remove fence and posts.

I don't have too high of an expectation for the show. Certainly not buying anything, just hoping there will be several manufactures so I can get an idea of the brands in person. May be a total bust, at least its free. I stopped by rec warehouse as a starting point last weekend and it was what I expected.

Thanks for the sterilization tip, I will go read up on it.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

I don't have too high of an expectation for the show. Certainly not buying anything, just hoping there will be several manufactures so I can get an idea of the brands in person. May be a total bust, at least its free. I stopped by rec warehouse as a starting point last weekend and it was what I expected.

Thanks for the sterilization tip, I will go read up on it.

Let us know how the show goes. Hoepfully its not the infamous traveling Master scam show, those are a waste of time and you'll want to take a shower after you leave their den of lies.

[Dnepr Dave]

My wife and I bought a used Caldera Kauai, We have had no problems with it, I wired it in myself.

The guy I bought it from runs a hot tub storage and moving business. Moving the tub to our house was included in the purchase price. He moved it on it's side, around the house on a sled made from 2" PVC electrical conduit and about 30 1"x4' schedule 40 PVC conduit rollers, they just kept taking them from the back and put them at the front of the sled. Two guys schlepped it around the house and onto our patio. It only took them about 15 minutes to get it into place.

I had seen that same hot tub come and go on Craig's List for about a year. The weird two breaker sub panel wasn't included with the tub. The local Caldera dealer didn't want to sell me a new sub panel because I didn't buy the tub from him. It took a couple of weeks for me to round up the parts and assemble a sub panel myself. I think that is the reason the same tub kept popping up on Craig's list, no one could wire it up without the sub panel. The last guy, before me, to own it was an employee of the hot tub mover/storage guy. The employee moved out of state and left the tub with his employer to sell.

I wouldn't change anything in the way I got the tub, I am pleased with the deal I got and am happy with the tub.

Dave

[Trigger]

I had seen that same hot tub come and go on Craig's List for about a year. The weird two breaker sub panel wasn't included with the tub. The local Caldera dealer didn't want to sell me a new sub panel because I didn't buy the tub from him.

I bet if you called Caldera they'd be more than happy to have sold you a panel.

[Dnepr Dave]

It turned out it was cheaper to buy the parts and put it together.

Dave

[Hubjeep]

I got my Vita LC500 from my neighbor, 6 of us loaded it atop of my trailer and we towed it across the yard. I strongly suggest at least 6 people to lift a big tub, more the better. They are not the easiest things to hold onto.

The patio was sloped about 3" every 8', so I ripped four pressure treated 4X4's diagonally, like long wedges, placed the 8 of them parallel to each other every 8" or so and screwed 3/4" exterior plywood to them to level out the tub, worked great. Tub has been in place for over 3 years.

[awitowsk]

The show was about what was expected, maybe 2 dozen spas, looked to be one outfit selling mostly jacuzzi brand tubs. We went over after work yesterday and had changed from our office clothes into some jeans and winter coats since it was pretty cold out. A salesman came up and asked if we needed anything. I said we were just looking and he said"don't worry, you can take your time, we wont throw you back out in the cold" I wasn't sure if he was joking or thought we were vagrants. Was enough to make it a quick stop for me though.

We are going to look at the optima tomorrow. Talked to the owners today, they seemed pretty straight forward. Said the temp sensor was repaired once under warranty, everything else is original. Never had any problems with it. Its drained right now, but they said they would fill it for us to see it working. Is there anything in particular I should look for or ask?

Here is the tub:

Optima listing on CL

Thanks!

[Pool Clown]

Ask him if you can jump in and try it out...

[Raeven]

Hi, awitowsk,

I wet-tested 2 different Hot Spring spas owned by private owners. They were both very helpful and kind. In both cases, wet-testing is what caused me make my decision. The first spa was wrong for me; the second one was right. So yes, if you can overcome your natural sense of embarrassment, I encourage you to wet-test even used spas -- it's still a big investment!

Get the serial number. Head to your local Sundance dealer and ask what they can tell you about the spa, if they have the repair history, best way to care for the spa, etc. I think private owners are mostly honest brokers, but it's still good to get it all from the horse's mouth. Doing this will also give you an idea about if the dealer will support a used spa, and that's an important thing to know. Sooner or later, you'll have to go to them for something.

The other thing I did was download the owner's manuals for spas I was considering buying. That gave me a fair idea of what I was getting myself into with respect to upkeep, how the jet systems worked, what to make sure functioned properly when I wet-tested, etc. Really invaluable.

Good luck with it all!

Raeven

[usguys spa service]

Hi all. I started looking into buying a used spa a few weeks ago and have been searching the internet and this forum for tips and advice. I am looking to get the best value in a used spa. I have already found quite a bit of good information, but would like any input from members who would make changes if they were buying again. I am going to a spa show at a convention center for some general information this weekend, (not to buy) anything particular I should look for/ask in general?

I am 26, wife, no children. Our primary criteria is the reliability over the massaging features. We basically want something to soak in and water movement more for ambiance than massage. We rent a vacation house every year with a large sundance spa (very nice) and most of the time have the jets turned off and use the seats more than the lounger. We are still up in the air on weather to get a small 3/4 person or larger size. Most of the time it will be just us. Opinions?

Buying new is out of the question. I realize with used installation will be entirely up to us as well as the maintenance with no warranty. I liked the sundance and there is a 2003 optima available locally. If we really won't be using the jets/blower all that much are the extra features worth the potential possible problems over a less complex system? Used Leisure bay tubs seem to be very easy to come by and half the price of the sundance. However I have read the horror stories of them and rec warehouse, hard to tell if its the terrible service or the tubs are really that poorly made. (I know they are cheap and weigh half as much as quality spa) What would your suggestions be for the most headache free? Quality name brand and more advanced, or simple and less complicated? Most likely the spa will already be 5-10 years old. Any specific brands or models to look for?

As far as moving one I have a trailer and 4 guys, which isn't all that much. I see the larger spas can weigh upwards of 900lbs empty. Would removing the pumps/blower if it has one be worth the hassle to try and reduce the weight? Are there any certain dollies/methods/advice to recommend outside of a forklift or crane?

Thanks, Alex

[usguys spa service]

Hi all. I started looking into buying a used spa a few weeks ago and have been searching the internet and this forum for tips and advice. I am looking to get the best value in a used spa. I have already found quite a bit of good information, but would like any input from members who would make changes if they were buying again. I am going to a spa show at a convention center for some general information this weekend, (not to buy) anything particular I should look for/ask in general?

When buying a used spa I would try to see the spa running if possible to feel the power of the jets and what type. Is there a variety of styles, are they adjustable,plastic (low end)or stainless steel. remove several jets from the housing and see if there is alot of white chalky hard water build up? this will tell you if the previous owner maintained the spa properly if not you will be replacing jets. use the back of your hand to get an idea of what they will feel like against your body. Do they feel comfortable or are they just forcing high pressure through a small port. can neck and shoulder jets be turned off. ask about the size and number of the pumps 2-5hp or more is best. inspect the cover and skirting. look for maintenance free skirting as opposed to wood. wood will require yearly maintenance and covers cost $400+. open the cabinet and look for water spots as an indication of previous leeks. spas such as beachcomber that have the whole cabinet filled with foam are a nightmare to repair if there is a leak. spas with stereos sound great but rarely last longer than the warranty. most lighting systems work well so don't be shy. open the spa pack look inside for rusty fuses and or water damage.is the spa equiped with a uv ozone generator? if so has the uv light bulb ever been replaced as they have a limited lifespan(3-4 years).

As for moving the spa spas are usually shipped on there sides (motors down) to fit through gates. 3-4 sections of pvc pipe used as rollers will work if dolly not available or even a length of cardboard will slide spa on its side along. most spas companies will offer a moving service usually starting at around $200 depending on difficulty of move (is it sunk into a deck?) and travel distance.

I hope this helps enjoy.

[usguys spa service]

When buying a used spa I would try to see the spa running if possible to feel the power of the jets and what type. Is there a variety of styles, are they adjustable,plastic (low end)or stainless steel. remove several jets from the housing and see if there is alot of white chalky hard water build up? this will tell you if the previous owner maintained the spa properly if not you will be replacing jets. use the back of your hand to get an idea of what they will feel like against your body. Do they feel comfortable or are they just forcing high pressure through a small port. can neck and shoulder jets be turned off. ask about the size and number of the pumps 2-5hp or more is best. inspect the cover and skirting. look for maintenance free skirting as opposed to wood. wood will require yearly maintenance and covers cost $400+. open the cabinet and look for water spots as an indication of previous leeks. spas such as beachcomber that have the whole cabinet filled with foam are a nightmare to repair if there is a leak. spas with stereos sound great but rarely last longer than the warranty. most lighting systems work well so don't be shy. open the spa pack look inside for rusty fuses and or water damage.is the spa equiped with a uv ozone generator? if so has the uv light bulb ever been replaced as they have a limited lifespan(3-4 years).

As for moving the spa spas are usually shipped on there sides (motors down) to fit through gates. 3-4 sections of pvc pipe used as rollers will work if dolly not available or even a length of cardboard will slide spa on its side along. most spas companies will offer a moving service usually starting at around $200 depending on difficulty of move (is it sunk into a deck?) and travel distance.

I hope this helps enjoy.

[awitowsk]

Thanks again for the advice. I made a bit of a mistake over the weekend and missed the one I was looking at. The optima was perfect, excellent shape and we were very impressed with it. No comparison to the other units we had looked at. Standing next to it looking at moving it out of their yard and then the 50 miles down the highway and across the bridge/tunnel to my house no longer looked like a good idea though. Somehow seemed easier on paper. I had no clue how much a mover would cost so I wanted to get a few estimates first. Moving ended up would be about $450, which wasn't great, but doable. By the time I called back this morning after getting the estimates they had sold it. Oh well. I have learned quite a bit at least so far.

I did find the owners manual online and impressed the sellers a bit when I respectfully knew a bit more about it than they did.

I am in no hurry and willing to wait for the right unit, so my next question regards demand and pricing. I am in Virginia Beach, so its around freezing this time of year and in the 90s during the summer. Has anyone noticed any general trends with seasons and demand? I have only been looking a few weeks and quality models are rare to come by. Are people more likely to sell a certain time of year?

[usguys spa service]

Thanks again for the advice. I made a bit of a mistake over the weekend and missed the one I was looking at. The optima was perfect, excellent shape and we were very impressed with it. No comparison to the other units we had looked at. Standing next to it looking at moving it out of their yard and then the 50 miles down the highway and across the bridge/tunnel to my house no longer looked like a good idea though. Somehow seemed easier on paper. I had no clue how much a mover would cost so I wanted to get a few estimates first. Moving ended up would be about $450, which wasn't great, but doable. By the time I called back this morning after getting the estimates they had sold it. Oh well. I have learned quite a bit at least so far.

I did find the owners manual online and impressed the sellers a bit when I respectfully knew a bit more about it than they did.

I am in no hurry and willing to wait for the right unit, so my next question regards demand and pricing. I am in Virginia Beach, so its around freezing this time of year and in the 90s during the summer. Has anyone noticed any general trends with seasons and demand? I have only been looking a few weeks and quality models are rare to come by. Are people more likely to sell a certain time of year?

Have you also sourced out the often overlooked electrical costs and requirements. The cost of breakers, outside disconnects,#6-3 wire, labour all add up quickly.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

ask about the size and number of the pumps 2-5hp or more is best.

I don't buy into that. First of all any spa that touts 5 HP pumps is giving you the deceptive Brake Horsepower rating, beyond that, its not the HP that matters but how well the jets feel. Some spas will put in higher HP pumps to wow you but they don't make the spa experience better and only cause higher energy bills.

Its a combination of the jets, the plumbing and the pump that matters, not the Hp (real HP or bogus BHP) that makes the difference and in a used spa I wouldn't do anything more than feel how the jets work (as always, I would NEVER buy a used spa from a homeowner without seeing it in operation).

[tony]

ask about the size and number of the pumps 2-5hp or more is best.

I don't buy into that. First of all any spa that touts 5 HP pumps is giving you the deceptive Brake Horsepower rating, beyond that, its not the HP that matters but how well the jets feel. Some spas will put in higher HP pumps to wow you but they don't make the spa experience better and only cause higher energy bills.

Its a combination of the jets, the plumbing and the pump that matters, not the Hp (real HP or bogus BHP) that makes the difference and in a used spa I wouldn't do anything more than feel how the jets work (as always, I would NEVER buy a used spa from a homeowner without seeing it in operation).

I completely agree. That particular spa, the 2003 Optima, has two 2.5 BHP therapy pumps along with a circ pump and air blower. It does have a redwood cabinet, though I would not be afraid of the wood. It takes a little maintenance but looks and feels great. The Optima is Sundance's best selling spa and looks like a nice buy at that price. It probably still has the original cover, so you would expect to need a new one in the near future if it were still available.

[QueenQuad]

Okay, here's my two cents!

We bought a used Caldera Tahitian spa just last month from an ad on Craigslist. The spa is a 1999 model, but very well maintained. When moving it we had to go thru a gate opening of about 38", so we had to turn the spa on it's side. What we did was take a pallet jack, covered the part the tub would be on with towels (duct taped on), screwed in two short boards(to protect the side walls) to the side of the spa and then flipped the spa on the side with the boards onto the pallet jack. There were 5 of us, and it was so easy! Moved very easy, no problem at all. Then we got it to the trailer, layed it towards the trailer and slid it up on to the trailer. Very easy for us. Before all that we had to disassemble the attached gazebo and cover. So, we had quite the load, but we were able to travel home going 60 - 65 miles per hour (2 hour drive). Take plenty of tie downs and use them all! Don't be afraid to buy used, but look for a good model, be patient, and make sure it is hooked up and running! You want to make sure all the jets are working and that it maintains heat. You should be able to tell from looking at the spa whether they maintained it or not. Good luck!