confusedbuyer Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 I have a freind doing my wiring for my new spa. YES he is liscenced and insured. He is doing this at no charge to me, so good to have smart freind. HOWEVER, he works off shore, and I am unable to get in touch with him, only when he is in town 1 weekend a month. I would like to purchase everything he needs to hook spa up for me, when he is here next week. I have purchased GFCI load center with spa. I live in trailor, so I have electrical pole and box in back yard for electrical to trailor ,aprox. 25 ft. from sun deck where spa is. My directions to spa says ELECTRICAL REQIREMENT CHART spa series Coastal Rating 220V Branch Circuit 4 wire GFCI protection 50amp COPPER CONDUCTOR CHART Circut Breaker 50a Max. Amp 40a Min Wire size 6 OK OK ???? will it be hooked to my exsisting electrical box, then to purchased GFCI box? According to the measured 25 ft. distance from pole to where spa is located what do I need 25 ft. of #6 copper wiring? What electrical wire do I need to buy? Its says 4 wire, how long or is that for just in box? GOSH I know, I am confusing myself. PLEASE dont tell me to wait and ask him. WHAT I NEED TO KNOW IS WHAT ALL DO I NEED TO PURCHASE FOR HIM TO HOOK UP SPA??? IF You can help me a Miracle will occur LOL THANKS Vickie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
confusedbuyer Posted August 31, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 yOU NEED 3/6 WITH GROUND yes thats 4 wires total, the hot,hot,neutral should be #6 the ground does not have to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
confusedbuyer Posted August 31, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 I guess that means he will be hooking up load center on my already excisting electrical pole and box? 25ft of 3/6 with ground. does that mean the 3/6 is the copper wire required plus whatever wire I need. LOL In other words all I lack buying is 25 ft. of3/6 with ground, since I have GFCI box already? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spa Dr. Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 I guess that means he will be hooking up load center on my already excisting electrical pole and box? 25ft of 3/6 with ground. does that mean the 3/6 is the copper wire required plus whatever wire I need. LOL In other words all I lack buying is 25 ft. of3/6 with ground, since I have GFCI box already? yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
confusedbuyer Posted August 31, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 yes ALRIGHTY THEN!! AGAIN I LOVE THIS SITE AND THE PEOPLE! THANKS AGAIN wish I could bake ya a cake LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfish Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 ALRIGHTY THEN!! AGAIN I LOVE THIS SITE AND THE PEOPLE! THANKS AGAIN wish I could bake ya a cake LOL The proper term for the wire is 6/3, 6 guage 3 wire. If it is 25' measured distance does that include down the pole and wire for the inside of the spa cabinet? On your pole outside do you have an elictrical panel or just a meter pan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfish Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 6/3 my bad I even misspelled eletrical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nocando Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 If this is ouside shouldn't it be wired with 4 individual 6 gauge conductor wires run inside of PVC or EMT? John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfish Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 If this is ouside shouldn't it be wired with 4 individual 6 gauge conductor wires run inside of PVC or EMT? John Yes, I would go with the PVC. The other question I have is what type of panel is on the pole. The line may have to come from the main panel in the trailer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim_The_Jim Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 I have a freind doing my wiring for my new spa. YES he is liscenced and insured. He is doing this at no charge to me, so good to have smart freind. HOWEVER, he works off shore, and I am unable to get in touch with him, only when he is in town 1 weekend a month. I would like to purchase everything he needs to hook spa up for me, when he is here next week. I have purchased GFCI load center with spa. I live in trailor, so I have electrical pole and box in back yard for electrical to trailor ,aprox. 25 ft. from sun deck where spa is. My directions to spa says ELECTRICAL REQIREMENT CHART spa series Coastal Rating 220V Branch Circuit 4 wire GFCI protection 50amp COPPER CONDUCTOR CHART Circut Breaker 50a Max. Amp 40a Min Wire size 6 OK OK ???? will it be hooked to my exsisting electrical box, then to purchased GFCI box? According to the measured 25 ft. distance from pole to where spa is located what do I need 25 ft. of #6 copper wiring? What electrical wire do I need to buy? Its says 4 wire, how long or is that for just in box? GOSH I know, I am confusing myself. PLEASE dont tell me to wait and ask him. WHAT I NEED TO KNOW IS WHAT ALL DO I NEED TO PURCHASE FOR HIM TO HOOK UP SPA??? IF You can help me a Miracle will occur LOL THANKS Vickie Whatever is stated here is just suggestions. You need to contact your local building officials for their requirements. I ran an electrical contracting business for 7 years and have installed thousands of spas. You need to put a 50 AMP breaker in the panel. Recommended is number 6 AWG Copper Stranded THHN/THWN insulation rating for the two "Hots". Number 8 AWG Copper stranded THHN/THWN for the ground and neutral. If the run is over 100 feet go to the next size up. Place the GFCI no closer than 5 feet, measured horizontally, from the water line. The maximum distance is 50 feet but that varies from locality to locality. All the wires need to be in conduit. The minimum is pvc shedule 40. If you have to run underground, because you can't have conduit out above the ground it needs to be 18 inches or deeper, unless it is under concrete. Check with your local building officials on this depth. At the spa, you should switch to liquid tight, water proof flexible conduit and run that into the spa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 I ran an electrical contracting business for 7 years and have installed thousands of spas. Jim, in a recent post, you stated that were an electrical engineer. Is that true? Thanks, Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chas Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 I would just dig any trenches that you need, 18" deep, move any large items that might be in the way, and find a supply house that opens early the day of your friend's appearance. Drive him to the store, or leave him doing prep work while you head to the store with his list. My $2 worth. Man, even that price has gone up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altazi Posted September 1, 2006 Report Share Posted September 1, 2006 Regardless of how you all may feel about Jim Arjuna, his first point of advice was critical. The NEC and local electrical code should be consulted for information regarding any wiring project of this magnitude. You should also get a wiring permit, and have the work inspected by the local authorities. A 240VAC/50A circuit is LETHAL. There is a reason electricians are licensed. When poorly designed or improperly implemented wiring is done, people can die and property can be destroyed. I can imagine what would happen if you had a fire at your house caused by faulty wiring, and your insurance company discovered the wiring wasn't done exactly according to the rules. The rest of Jim Arjuna's advice may or may not be appropriate for your location. This is where your local wiring code comes in. For example: in my location (Oregon), I need to have a 50A GFCI breaker in my main panel, and a service cutoff located near the spa. Do it right, do it safely, and everyone will be happier in the long run. NEVER try to go cheap on things related to electricity. I make a living pushing electrons around, so I do know what I am talking about. Regards, Altazi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim_The_Jim Posted September 1, 2006 Report Share Posted September 1, 2006 Regardless of how you all may feel about Jim Arjuna, his first point of advice was critical. The NEC and local electrical code should be consulted for information regarding any wiring project of this magnitude. You should also get a wiring permit, and have the work inspected by the local authorities. A 240VAC/50A circuit is LETHAL. There is a reason electricians are licensed. When poorly designed or improperly implemented wiring is done, people can die and property can be destroyed. I can imagine what would happen if you had a fire at your house caused by faulty wiring, and your insurance company discovered the wiring wasn't done exactly according to the rules. The rest of Jim Arjuna's advice may or may not be appropriate for your location. This is where your local wiring code comes in. For example: in my location (Oregon), I need to have a 50A GFCI breaker in my main panel, and a service cutoff located near the spa. Do it right, do it safely, and everyone will be happier in the long run. NEVER try to go cheap on things related to electricity. I make a living pushing electrons around, so I do know what I am talking about. Regards, Altazi The problem with placing a GFCI breaker in the panel then running out a disconnect is that you can get a ground fault in the pipe run to the disconnect, especially on a long run. It is much better to put a regular breaker in the house panel then the GFCI out near the Spa. This makes the run from the GFCI to the spa much shorter and reduces the possible ground faults just from induction across the hots to the ground in the wires in the conduit. GFCI's are in the miliamps. I have never seen any problem in Oregon doing it that way. It follows the National code exactly and we have installed them on new homes in Oregon with permits. The local electricians in many places do other things. I saw a spa hooked up with Machine (MJ Type) cord in Florida by a licensed master electrician. That would never pass in Colorado or Califorinia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altazi Posted September 1, 2006 Report Share Posted September 1, 2006 Hi Jim, Kindly note that I never said that all of the local codes were completely LOGICAL! Sometimes they just seem like hoops to jump through. Even so, it is usually easier to just do the jumping than trying to fight city hall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spa User Guy Posted September 1, 2006 Report Share Posted September 1, 2006 Hi Jim, Kindly note that I never said that all of the local codes were completely LOGICAL! Sometimes they just seem like hoops to jump through. Even so, it is usually easier to just do the jumping than trying to fight city hall. Just 1 other small note to add: There can only be (4) 90 degree bends per each run of conduit. This means only (4) 90 degree bends from your service box to the disconnect and from there only (4) 90 degree bends from the disconnect to the spa not including the flexible liquid tight section from the end of your schedule 40 to the spa electrical connection box. This is helpful to know for planning purposes prior to digging your trenches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfish Posted September 1, 2006 Report Share Posted September 1, 2006 Just 1 other small note to add: There can only be (4) 90 degree bends per each run of conduit. This means only (4) 90 degree bends from your service box to the disconnect and from there only (4) 90 degree bends from the disconnect to the spa not including the flexible liquid tight section from the end of your schedule 40 to the spa electrical connection box. This is helpful to know for planning purposes prior to digging your trenches. Unless the NEC has changed it is 270 degrees of bend or 3 90's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chas Posted September 1, 2006 Report Share Posted September 1, 2006 Unless the NEC has changed it is 270 degrees of bend or 3 90's. Code says 270 degrees. If you have to put more than that, you simply put in a junction box or pull elbow. It is up to the inspector on this one though, I have seen some jobs pass because the homeowner used 1" pvc, or beacuse they had too many turns but all the turns were 45 els without any 90's etc. However, the fact is that this part of the code exists to make it possible to pull the wire through the conduit, or to replace it at a later date if needed, so it is wise to follow it to the letter. If you have to have more than 270 degrees worth of turn, put in a Pull Elbow or junction box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spa User Guy Posted September 1, 2006 Report Share Posted September 1, 2006 Code says 270 degrees. If you have to put more than that, you simply put in a junction box or pull elbow. It is up to the inspector on this one though, I have seen some jobs pass because the homeowner used 1" pvc, or beacuse they had too many turns but all the turns were 45 els without any 90's etc. However, the fact is that this part of the code exists to make it possible to pull the wire through the conduit, or to replace it at a later date if needed, so it is wise to follow it to the letter. If you have to have more than 270 degrees worth of turn, put in a Pull Elbow or junction box. Code says 360 degrees currently, please see the information listed below with the code reference in brackets. Verified today by an Electrical contractor and State Inspector. Conduit Systems General Requirements Access covers to conduit system must remain accessible [370-29] [4405.10] No common plastic boxes with metal raceway, BX or MC cable [370-3] [4405.1] Splicing in conduit bodies only if cu.in. capacity is marked & of sufficient size [370-16c] [4405.14.1] Bends- max. 360° between pull points [348-10] [t 4302.1] Crimps (kinks) in pipe not permitted [348-9] [4302.5] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chas Posted September 1, 2006 Report Share Posted September 1, 2006 Code says 360 degrees currently, You are right! I sit corrected. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim_The_Jim Posted September 3, 2006 Report Share Posted September 3, 2006 Unless the NEC has changed it is 270 degrees of bend or 3 90's. That is not correct, it is 4 90's or 360 degrees total turns. That is between junction boxes. I am an electrician and that has been in the code for 20 or more years. If you put in a j-box you can run another 360 degrees in turns. So, you can run the 90's then put a junction box. Then run the 90's again. It is in the pipe run, not the total run. We used to call them "pull boxes" and you do not need to make a juction. You can pull all the wire out then start a new run from the pull box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim_The_Jim Posted September 3, 2006 Report Share Posted September 3, 2006 Hi Jim, Kindly note that I never said that all of the local codes were completely LOGICAL! Sometimes they just seem like hoops to jump through. Even so, it is usually easier to just do the jumping than trying to fight city hall. There is no electrical building official that does not allow a sub panel with a GFCI. I have spas in most all states and nearly all of them have been inspected. It is up to the customer to get the permits. We have a Fallsburg in Sisters Oregon for about 6 or 7 years. http://www.soundclick.com/havenhead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Autoplay Posted September 3, 2006 Report Share Posted September 3, 2006 There is no electrical building official that does not allow a sub panel with a GFCI. I have spas in most all states and nearly all of them have been inspected. It is up to the customer to get the permits. We have a Fallsburg in Sisters Oregon for about 6 or 7 years. Altazi....next he'll discuss his knowledge of the electrical wheel in 64 degrees/grin. Keep pushing the internet for sales LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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