Infinity Sunpeak Reliablity

[kengorman]

Biz quoted an email message which stated:

Our tubs have the 2lb high density foam insulation sprayed on the cavity of the tub (most spa manufacturers use 1lb or 1.5lb spray foam). We also have the artic wrap, aka subzero, insulation that goes around the cabinet of the tub and this keeps the hot air in and the cold air out.

As you can see her answer to my question on insulation clearly indicates "2 inch foam insulation".

I see that she indicated they used 2 pound foam insulation and not 2 inch of foam insulation. 2 lb. foam insulation refers to the type of spray on foam insulation and is called "2 lb." because when fully expanded it weighs 2 pounds per cubic foot. It doesn't, however, refer to the thickness of the applied insulation.

My Infinity tub has 2 lb. (pound not inch) foam insulation, however, its thickness is nominal - perhaps 0.25 inches.

The design of the Infinity tub is a "thermopane" (aka TP) design - it relies on the warm air cavity between the cabinet and the shell to provide an insulation barrier. Some companies TP designs are extremely good (for instance, Arctic), however, some aren't as efficient.

Other manufacturs use the "full foam" method where a thick barrier of foam is applied to the tub's shell. There are pros and cons to these methods and they have been hashed out on this board many times.

My reading of your post suggests that you were expecting a full-foam tub with 2 inches of thick foam applied to your tub. My reading of the original ad, Infinity's web-site, and Infinity's email response to your query doesn't indicate to me that that is what was advertised.

Regards,

Ken

[Biz]

Ah, again your correct. I saw the number 2, and read it as 2 inch foam insulation, when actually she said 2 LB high density foam insulation.

In another email, I was sent, she said the following though:

"I do apologize for the changes of the spa.. we were not informed of them until all had shipped out. I can fill out a service request for us to pay for a tech to come out and put the proper foam insulation on the tub, buff the scratches, and also switch the electrical pack from a 4 to a 5.5KW. As for the jets, the spa was supposed to come with 1 master blaster in the footwell and then 2 4” jets and then there are some 2” jets in the footwell as well, but we do not make the tub with a master blaster in the footwell anymore."

"The shell has a new type of insulation on it called Isotek Yarn Insulation, it is painted on"

I have tried to do a search for this type of insulation on the internet but have found nothing. Do you know if this is a "high density foam insulation" as was advertised.

Biz quoted an email message which stated:

Our tubs have the 2lb high density foam insulation sprayed on the cavity of the tub (most spa manufacturers use 1lb or 1.5lb spray foam). We also have the artic wrap, aka subzero, insulation that goes around the cabinet of the tub and this keeps the hot air in and the cold air out.

As you can see her answer to my question on insulation clearly indicates "2 inch foam insulation".

I see that she indicated they used 2 pound foam insulation and not 2 inch of foam insulation. 2 lb. foam insulation refers to the type of spray on foam insulation and is called "2 lb." because when fully expanded it weighs 2 pounds per cubic foot. It doesn't, however, refer to the thickness of the applied insulation.

My Infinity tub has 2 lb. (pound not inch) foam insulation, however, its thickness is nominal - perhaps 0.25 inches.

The design of the Infinity tub is a "thermopane" (aka TP) design - it relies on the warm air cavity between the cabinet and the shell to provide an insulation barrier. Some companies TP designs are extremely good (for instance, Arctic), however, some aren't as efficient.

Other manufacturs use the "full foam" method where a thick barrier of foam is applied to the tub's shell. There are pros and cons to these methods and they have been hashed out on this board many times.

My reading of your post suggests that you were expecting a full-foam tub with 2 inches of thick foam applied to your tub. My reading of the original ad, Infinity's web-site, and Infinity's email response to your query doesn't indicate to me that that is what was advertised.

Regards,

Ken

[fiveofakind]

Olivia,

Thanks for the reply.........Is Laura brown still at Infinity....she was quite helpful in the past with service problems as well....she was in the Tenn location.......

I have owned a Sun Peak since April 2008 with no known problems......have used this spa regularly since buying....

A great deal at a value price.......

Sun Peak Owners,

I am a DIY'er who is very familiar with this tub.....please PM if you have any questions with the operation or service of this tub.....I will help you out if I can....

Roger,

Sandi is a great gal....dont be so sensitive about her comments.......

Jeff

[sandi]

Roger,

Sandi is a great gal....dont be so sensitive about her comments.......

Jeff

Jeff,

Thanks! Roger and I are good - just a minor misunderstanding that we have straightened out.

Sandi

[Roger]

Jeff,

Thanks! Roger and I are good - just a minor misunderstanding that we have straightened out.

Sandi

[rosee]

I still work for Infinity and yes we are having to file bankruptcy because our major suppliers won't pay us so we don't service Costco, Home Depot or Sams Club anymore. I would imagine that any manufacturer who does business with them will end up in the same position. Our bad, thinking we could be different.It is nice to see that someone online has some positive things to say. Yes, we have had issues but a lot of them have been out of our control. When you are receiving incoming money, you have to cut corners in any way you can to keep going but we never changed our suppliers. We just laid off over 100 people and Dave, the owner of the company did it himself. He did not send some one to do it in a suit and had the option. He barely got the words out between the tears. Seems to me that if you guys need any parts, Costco, Home Depot or Sams Club should pay them. After all, they have your money and not us. We are currently working on another owners manual that is a lot more informative than the previous one. I will be happy to post it when it's available. I wish all our customers could have had the good sense that you have in figuring out simple problems. Air locks are frequent when filling and refilling a spa and seems you guys have just breezed through that. If any of you need anything at all, please feel free to contact me at whlsllsrandrctn@gmail.com. I will help you in anyway I can. I can probably even get a speaker out the door for the guy in need of one. Just need to know how old the Sun Peak is so I get the right one. Infinity is trying to pull back out of this but we'll see. They have every intention of paying people they owe that serviced the spas correctly and needless to say, there are a lot of rip off spa techs out there so ask for references if you happen to need one. Thanks again everyone for the positive. Seems like when you are down, people just keep on kicking and I just don't get that.

My husband purchased an Infinity Cascade spa as a surprise for me for my birthday/our anniversary in July. We've had problems with it since the first use. The first thing was the stereo working/not working intermittently, 2 speakers not working at all, none of the speaker led lights working, and the headrests popping off and floating around in the tub constantly. We had a tech come out in August and they ordered a new stereo and speakers, but we didn't hear from them again for 4-6 weeks. When we contacted them they said they were "having trouble" getting the parts from Infinity. We at least could still use the tub and the stereo worked most of the time so we were patient. By late August/early September the jets started to pop out from different areas and we would find them floating in the tub. We live in Michigan and by late October/early November when the temps. started dipping we noticed the water level dipping also. We added water and chalked it up to evaporation or a poor seal on the cover. Two weeks ago we went to use the spa and there was about a foot of water in the bottom! We had just checked it 2 days before so we knew it was more serious than a poor seal on the cover. We again filled the tub back up, not wanting to believe that a 4 month-old tub could actually be malfunctioning this bad. We wanted to believe that it was something we did and that we hadn't just put thousands of dollars into a luxury item that was defective. The next day the tub was empty again. There are thousands of gallons of water draining down into my brick and sand patio that will probably be trashed once the temps make it expand from freezing. Not to mention the fact that the wood frame inside the tub is totally soaked and will probably fall apart at some point. We finally heard from the company that sold us the tub and were informed that since Infinity had filed for bankruptcy and since they were out of business parts were not available, the warranty that we thought we had will not be honored, and we'll probably never see the stereo and speakers that were on backorder since August/September.

I understand how you feel about being kicked when you are down, but from the consumer's end it is a horrible feeling to feel that we were ripped off. We own a business also that is retail based and are in hard financial times. We have a son in college, one graduating in 2 more years, and a one in grade school. With a mortgage, car payments, orthodontia, etc., this was really a difficult decision to purchase the tub. After a decent deal which included a trade-in on our old tub we took the plunge, thinking it would give us years of relaxation and a substitute for vacations and other luxuries we wouldn't be able to afford for awhile. I am just sick to my stomach now after I found out that Infinity had closed up shop and I was scrambling on the internet to figure out what to do and I discovered that they had 62 complaints against them with the Better Business Bureau. This was purchased out of the goodness of my husband's heart as a surprise for me. Unfortunately, it will be surprising us for years to come.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

I still work for Infinity and yes we are having to file bankruptcy because our major suppliers won't pay us so we don't service Costco, Home Depot or Sams Club anymore.

Somehow I missed this post. Of course suppliers don't pay, they supply. Customers pay, but I'll assume she meant simply meant "customers". So she seems to be saying Infinity's issues are with Costco, HS and Sam's not paying? I'm finding that a bit hard to believe that those customers are actually delinquent.

I'm guessing the issue is with numerous returns eating up the sales. When a spa gets returned to Costco (their #1 account) I imagine they debit that spa from what they owe Infinity and that snowball turned into an avalanche. So maybe its not that they are not paying but rather that the quality issues (customers love that Costco return policy) have been their undoing as was the case with Keys and Hydro before them.

Costco has it easy, they just move on to the next “pump ‘em out” spa company. Living Waters will probably end up in the same position as Infinity and the others. No one will ever win the Costco game unless they can build quality and make a certain margin but Costco won’t sell at prices allowing spa companies to build in the quality AND make a suitable profit based on the features they require. Pick your poison, build a quality spa and sell it too cheap therefore cutting your throat now or build it cheaply to make money up front but pay later when the quality bites you in the butt.

[sandi]

We finally heard from the company that sold us the tub and were informed that since Infinity had filed for bankruptcy and since they were out of business parts were not available, the warranty that we thought we had will not be honored, and we'll probably never see the stereo and speakers that were on backorder since August/September.

I understand how you feel about being kicked when you are down, but from the consumer's end it is a horrible feeling to feel that we were ripped off. I am just sick to my stomach now after I found out that Infinity had closed up shop and I was scrambling on the internet to figure out what to do and I discovered that they had 62 complaints against them with the Better Business Bureau. This was purchased out of the goodness of my husband's heart as a surprise for me. Unfortunately, it will be surprising us for years to come.

rosee,

Here is Costco's return policy:

Returns

Membership: We will refund your membership fee in full at any time if you are dissatisfied.

Merchandise: We guarantee your satisfaction on every product we sell with a full refund. Exceptions: Televisions, projectors, computers, cameras, camcorders, iPOD / MP3 players and cellular phones must be returned within 90 days of purchase for a refund.

How to Return: For an immediate refund (including shipping and handling), simply return your purchase at any one of our Costco warehouses worldwide. If you are unable to return your order at one of our warehouses, please email customer service or call our customer service center at 1-800-955-2292 for assistance. To expedite the processing of your return, please reference your order number.

If you request an item be picked up for return, the item must be packaged and available for pick up in the same manner as it was delivered.

If your order was delivered “curb side,” it will need to be available for curb side pick up.

If the item arrived to you in a box, it will need to be in a box at the time of pick up.

So, you can call Costco and ask them to pick up the spa and refund your money. They will - others on this forum have done it.

Or, if you want to try to get it fixed, call this guy:

I just want to confirm that Costco.com will stand behind the original warranty on your spa regardless what happens with the Infinity Spa buyout.

Please contact me if you ever have any spa issue.

Sincerely,

David Lilley

E-commerce Resolution Team

425.313.8100 x111746

800.955.2292

I spoke with him when Infinity first went out of business to find out what Costco was going to do for customers who own Infinity spas and may need them serviced while they are under warranty.

Good luck.

Sandi

[rosee]

Hi Sandi,

Thanks for the info, but unfortunately we didn't buy it through Costco. We got it through a pool and spa dealer. They are trying to fix the pump right now where the leak is but we have to pay for it and try to get the cost back from Infinity. I'm sorry...I'm laughing so hard I can't type...I can't even get them to answer the phone!!

[KIALDA]

I received a phone call from a Rep for Hot Tub services. He was located in Connecticut. We live about 250 miles away in Vermont. His call was to find out what repairs we will need for our Infinity tub. Though our tub is running ok, it was delivered without the 2 inch foam insulation that Costco advertised, along with only a 4 kw heater and not the 5.5 kw heater they advertised.

We are hoping that Hot Tub services will at least come insulate inside the cabinet with 2 inch rigid foam panels which we hope will help minimize the loss of water temps for us. We also want the larger heater, hoping that it will speed up the warming process by at least 1 degree per hour. I have been told that it is not recommended to add the 2 inch foam to the shell of the tub now.

Hot tub services indicated that they are hammering out a contract with Costco now, and will get back to us soon about repairing our tub.

Anyone have any idea how their service will be? After all we are located about 250 miles from them, about a 4 hour drive.

If I am not mistaken Hot Tub Services is owned by Thermospas. I think that pretty much says enough..

[Biz]

I received a phone call from a Rep for Hot Tub services. He was located in Connecticut. We live about 250 miles away in Vermont. His call was to find out what repairs we will need for our Infinity tub. Though our tub is running ok, it was delivered without the 2 inch foam insulation that Costco advertised, along with only a 4 kw heater and not the 5.5 kw heater they advertised.

We are hoping that Hot Tub services will at least come insulate inside the cabinet with 2 inch rigid foam panels which we hope will help minimize the loss of water temps for us. We also want the larger heater, hoping that it will speed up the warming process by at least 1 degree per hour. I have been told that it is not recommended to add the 2 inch foam to the shell of the tub now.

Hot tub services indicated that they are hammering out a contract with Costco now, and will get back to us soon about repairing our tub.

Anyone have any idea how their service will be? After all we are located about 250 miles from them, about a 4 hour drive.

If I am not mistaken Hot Tub Services is owned by Thermospas. I think that pretty much says enough..

Well Hot tub services did come take a look at our tub about 10 days ago. First the tech tried to replace the 4.0KW heater with a new 5.5KW heater. For some reason though, the new heater does not work with our current control panel. He is going to order a new control panel and come back to replace both control panel and heater.

Second, he indicated that when he returns he will wrap the inside of the cabinet with Thermo Foil which I understand should help insulate it much better.

Overall, he drove over 500 miles round trip though and nothing else was done. I was confused since other people have replaced their heaters and did not need a new control panel, and was also confused as to why he did not at least bring the Thermo Foil with him on the first trip, since he was aware that one of our complaints was with the lack of insulation.

I will say though that a rep from Costco called us a few days ago wanting an update on what the tech from Hot Tub services did for us. She said she will continue to check back with us, until the work we asked for is complete. I hope with Costco's backing, these issues can be resolved shorty.

The tech had to order the new control panel, so we are awaiting for him to return.

[Carleen]

Work them tubs hard for the next year. I got a feeling Infinity is gona tank.

I think I will have to agree with you. We ordered an Infinity Spa through Costco and we have had nothing but problems. From the time I ordered it on Aug. 3, 2008, 3 weeks after we get a phone call saying that our order had been damaged. And that they would have to redo it. They promised us only 2 more weeks. Well Oct 22, 2008 we finally took delivery of it and there was still damage. The top edges were all scuffed, there was a gouge in one side of the fiberglass and on the inside there was a 6" and a 3" scratch, not to mention the cover was torn and missing a part. I could just scream. So I had been working with Infinity Spas/Speedy Spa Delivery (yeah right) Anyway, all their promises were non-existant as yet. They promised that they would compensate us, which they have some, but promised more for all the problems, still they haven't and they have not sent out a new cover or had anyone contact us to fix the spa. So it sat for about 2 weeks empty and I finally told them that I wanted to use it so they promised to compensate me if I decided not to fix the scratches on the inside, then I could go ahead and start using it. Still more time went by and not a single contact. So now I am really fed up and I contact Costco, who also wrote me back right away and told me that they would take care of getting it fixed and get back with me and let me know when we could schedule a repair and etc. That was 2 weeks ago, it is now Dec. 5th, 2008 and I still do not have anything resolved. So I would strongly caution ANYONE who is thinking of buying from Infinity Spas or Costco, to think TWICE about it! In the mean time I am not giving up and are continuing to try to contact both places. It was a hard lesson learned, but I do love the spa, I hope it doesn't break down or I think I will be screwed, this is one company that it wouldn't surprise me if they go under!!! My last spa I had for 20 years. But it was not from a company like this that is for sure. Good luck all if you have bought from these people.

[Roger]

So I would strongly caution ANYONE who is thinking of buying from Infinity Spas or Costco, to think TWICE about it! In the mean time I am not giving up and are continuing to try to contact both places. It was a hard lesson learned, but I do love the spa, I hope it doesn't break down or I think I will be screwed, this is one company that it wouldn't surprise me if they go under!!! My last spa I had for 20 years. But it was not from a company like this that is for sure. Good luck all if you have bought from these people.

Don't waste your time trying to contact Infinity, they are gone.