Arctic Refresh

[Wet in ChiTown]

I am still leaning this chem thing for my spa and I have a Arctic spa with a Onzen system (salt and ozone that produces something). I was told all I need to do is add 7 oz of this Arctic Refresh once a week. Is this once a week 7oz of Arctic Refresh doing a "shock" to my water?

Also when my Alk is low I add 2 oz of Arctic Balance and when my Alk is high I add 2 oz of Arctic ph lower.

When my ph is high I add 1 oz of ph lower.

When my ph is low I add 2 oz of ph raise.

I guess my questions are : Am I doing this chem thing right ? Do I need to add other chem also ?

Am I added these in the correct doses? I am always afraid that I am added too much or not enough.

Sometimes my Free Clorine is just about down to nothing but I can smell the clorine. What should I do then? Doesn't my salt and ozone make clorine? Should I add this Refresh (whatever that is, it doesn't say what it is on the label).

I'm not sure if I am doing it right or I am not.

I think I get the Alk and PH thing. I'm just not sure if I am adding too much or too little and not sure when to test it again after I add the chem.

Any advise on this salt/ozone thing. What does it do and what should I be doing.

I guess I am just looking for a pat on the back or a slap in the face. LOL

[Hillbilly Hot Tub]

I am still leaning this chem thing for my spa and I have a Arctic spa with a Onzen system (salt and ozone that produces something). I was told all I need to do is add 7 oz of this Arctic Refresh once a week. Is this once a week 7oz of Arctic Refresh doing a "shock" to my water?

Also when my Alk is low I add 2 oz of Arctic Balance and when my Alk is high I add 2 oz of Arctic ph lower.

When my ph is high I add 1 oz of ph lower.

When my ph is low I add 2 oz of ph raise.

I guess my questions are : Am I doing this chem thing right ? Do I need to add other chem also ?

Am I added these in the correct doses? I am always afraid that I am added too much or not enough.

Sometimes my Free Clorine is just about down to nothing but I can smell the clorine. What should I do then? Doesn't my salt and ozone make clorine? Should I add this Refresh (whatever that is, it doesn't say what it is on the label).

It is making chlorine, if your free chlorine is low you are either not producing enough or it is getting turned into chlorimines(working on contaminants) and this is what I think is happening since you have a strong smell. That means you need to shock, which is either bringing up your chlorine level to 10 or adding a non chlorine shock. Since refresh does not say what it is, I can't help you there. I would go to your Arctic dealer to have them help you with the system to get it coreect.

I'm not sure if I am doing it right or I am not.

I think I get the Alk and PH thing. I'm just not sure if I am adding too much or too little and not sure when to test it again after I add the chem.

How much PH adjusters you add depends on how far your PH is off. It should say on the bottle to add "(x)ounces if PH is (x) per (x) gallons" Just throwing 2 ounces in may not be the correct thing depending if your reading is 7.8 or 8.2.

Any advise on this salt/ozone thing. What does it do and what should I be doing.

I guess I am just looking for a pat on the back or a slap in the face. LOL

You paid good money for your spa from a dealer, make them do the after purchase service you deserve so you do not get frusterated. You bought the spa to relax

[Wet in ChiTown]

Oh I am. I am using this forum to verify what they are telling me and using my dealer to verify what this forum is telling me.

Thanks, but a response of telling me to asking someone else does doesn't really help me. Although I do use that one on my kids, "Go ask your mother"

[Hillbilly Hot Tub]

Oh I am. I am using this forum to verify what they are telling me and using my dealer to verify what this forum is telling me.

Thanks, but a response of telling me to asking someone else does doesn't really help me. Although I do use that one on my kids, "Go ask your mother"

I did give you a response about the PH, you can't just throw some in, you need to add the amount needed for your gallons and how much the PH needs to be adjusted. You did not list the chemical components in refresh, so I am not sure what it is. It is labled specially for Arctic, so they should know what it is. I do know the salt systems are pretty good now, that you should rarely have to adjust the PH and they need to be shocked once and awhile. The idea to be able to keep the water in them for up to a year is that you are not adding a bunch of chemicals which contribute to high TDS.

[cpumodem]

I am still leaning this chem thing for my spa and I have a Arctic spa with a Onzen system (salt and ozone that produces something). I was told all I need to do is add 7 oz of this Arctic Refresh once a week. Is this once a week 7oz of Arctic Refresh doing a "shock" to my water?

Also when my Alk is low I add 2 oz of Arctic Balance and when my Alk is high I add 2 oz of Arctic ph lower.

When my ph is high I add 1 oz of ph lower.

When my ph is low I add 2 oz of ph raise.

I guess my questions are : Am I doing this chem thing right ? Do I need to add other chem also ?

Am I added these in the correct doses? I am always afraid that I am added too much or not enough.

Sometimes my Free Clorine is just about down to nothing but I can smell the clorine. What should I do then? Doesn't my salt and ozone make clorine? Should I add this Refresh (whatever that is, it doesn't say what it is on the label).

I'm not sure if I am doing it right or I am not.

I think I get the Alk and PH thing. I'm just not sure if I am adding too much or too little and not sure when to test it again after I add the chem.

Any advise on this salt/ozone thing. What does it do and what should I be doing.

I guess I am just looking for a pat on the back or a slap in the face. LOL

Let me answer the Arctic Refesh question. I have an Arctic Glacier Signature that I got in late July. My wife and I use the tub 3 to 5 times a week.

When I get out each time I use 1 tablespoon of Arctic Refresh. You will need to use more refresh if you have more bathers about 1/2 tablespoon per each bather. Turn both pumps on and add Arctic Refresh than after about 2 minutes I shut both pumps off.

Then I engage the Boost mode by pushing down on pump 2 until I see BOO on the LCD read out. I leave the cover off for about 20 to 25 minutes and then close the cover. On Sunday I put 1 cap full of Arctic refresh and run boost mode. When you are running boost mode both the Onzen system is on and pump 1 runs on high speed for 45 minutes.

ALso you have to be careful and not use to much Refresh as the salt in the sytem will amplify the oxidizing effect.

Refresh is a non chlorine oxidzer and you need to use it after each use to burn off the bad stuff in the tub. That is the reason you are seeing almost zero free chlorine.

The Onzen user guide from Arctic is missing a lot of information and more useful information needs to be added so users like us can understand and maintain the Onzen system with better confidence.

[Wet in ChiTown]

Thanks, cpumodem...so do you just ignore your chlorine reading on your test strip and follow that method? What if after I get out and my chlorine on my test strip looks OK, should I still add Refresh or can I skip adding it. Is it the Refresh that gives me a higher reading on my strip?

A lot of times I go in three seperate times, morning, late afternoon and then again at night before bed. Should I still add Refresh after each use or can I just add it one time after the last dip of the day ?

And when you add a capfull of Refresh every Sunday is that considered "shocking" the water. I hear everyone saying you have to "shock" and I'm not really sure what that means. Can you shock with a non chlorine oxidzer ?

[Tom]

The Onzen user guide from Arctic is missing a lot of information and more useful information needs to be added so users like us can understand and maintain the Onzen system with better confidence.

Thanks to CPU who provided some helpful suggestions earlier; I expect that the brochure will be updated at the next printing (I do not have a date for this). The updated brochure will be made available to customers through our eNewsletter (and, eventually, our new web site). Arctic/Coyote/Apollo owners are invited to subscribe or check out back issues here.

According to our supplier's spec sheets, Refresh is MPS, a standard non-chlorine oxidizer.

One problem with the present Onzen manual is that it says to use "small amounts" of Refresh. I consulted one of our R&D team who was on the Onzen project. Here's what he said:

- The amount of Refresh you need depends on the level of usage. Use approximately 1/2 capful per session (try 1/4 capful per person, about 2 level teaspoons)

- With very light usage (1 person in the spa for 15 min) you don't need Refresh. The ozone will eventually burn off the combined amines. So if it's just you in the tub, ChiTown, you can add up to 1/2 capful after the last dip of the day. If you skip it, keep a very close eye on your sanitizer level.

- After heavy use (a tub party), it may take up to 24 hours for the system to generate measurable levels of sanitizer. Use small amounts (1/2 capful at a time) of Refresh to bring the sanitizer level up more quickly.

- Using the recommended normal dose (4 capfuls per 400gal/1500 litres) is not harmful--the excess will drive up your sanitizer level temporarily, as ChiTown observed--but this does waste Refresh.

Remember to leave your cover off for 20 minutes after using Refresh (see Owner manual, p. 25)

While I'm on Onzen, we are finding that some owners are using too much salt or too high a setting, I guess on the idea that "if some is good, more is better." WRONG! After heavy use, add Refresh rather than cranking up the Onzen setting or dumping in salt. (cpu, is that the kind of thing you meant?)

I hope this information is useful and helpful.

[cpumodem]

The Onzen user guide from Arctic is missing a lot of information and more useful information needs to be added so users like us can understand and maintain the Onzen system with better confidence.

Thanks to CPU who provided some helpful suggestions earlier; I expect that the brochure will be updated at the next printing (I do not have a date for this). The updated brochure will be made available to customers through our eNewsletter (and, eventually, our new web site). Arctic/Coyote/Apollo owners are invited to subscribe or check out back issues here.

According to our supplier's spec sheets, Refresh is MPS, a standard non-chlorine oxidizer.

One problem with the present Onzen manual is that it says to use "small amounts" of Refresh. I consulted one of our R&D team who was on the Onzen project. Here's what he said:

- The amount of Refresh you need depends on the level of usage. Use approximately 1/2 capful per session (try 1/4 capful per person, about 2 rounded teaspoons)

- With very light usage (1 person in the spa for 15 min) you don't need Refresh. The ozone will eventually burn off the combined amines. So if it's just you in the tub, ChiTown, you can add up to 1/2 capful after the last dip of the day. If you skip it, keep a very close eye on your sanitizer level.

- After heavy use (a tub party), it may take up to 24 hours for the system to generate measurable levels of sanitizer. Use small amounts (1/2 capful at a time) of Refresh to bring the sanitizer level up more quickly.

- Using the recommended normal dose (4 capfuls per 400gal/1500 litres) is not harmful--the excess will drive up your sanitizer level temporarily, as ChiTown observed--but this does waste Refresh.

Remember to leave your cover off for 20 minutes after using Refresh (see Owner manual, p. 25)

While I'm on Onzen, we are finding that some owners are using too much salt or too high a setting, I guess on the idea that "if some is good, more is better." WRONG! After heavy use, add Refresh rather than cranking up the Onzen setting or dumping in salt. (cpu, is that the kind of thing you meant?)

I hope this information is useful and helpful.

Tom

Thanks for the update on the Onzen manual. And thanks for your input on using Refresh this is the instructions that I was looking for.

Chuck

[Whoneedsavacation]

If I'm understanding this system properly, it sounds as if there is no EPA-registered sanitizer in use. So you are taking some risk. Unless the "salt" in question contains bromine or chlorine in some usuable form. I believe MPS used as shock needs some free chlorine or bromine to react with. Ozone alone is not considered sufficient, but it does allow for less added chemical, I believe. (I'm really only familiar with bromine tablet sanitization, since that's all I have hands-on experience with).

I am aware of bromine systems that use periodically added sodium bromide and MPS rather than a bromine floater (the tabs we use in floaters contain chlorine as well). Perhaps the "Salt" in this system contains sodium bromide?

If I were the OP, I'd be asking the dealer what the active sanitizer in the system is.

[Tom]

If I'm understanding this system properly, it sounds as if there is no EPA-registered sanitizer in use. So you are taking some risk. Unless the "salt" in question contains bromine or chlorine in some usuable form

Thank you for putting it as you did; you are indeed misunderstanding the system. Salt systems are widely used in swimming pools worldwide, and have recently been developed for spas. The "salt" used in Onzen will be either sodium bromide or sodium chloride, and the system will release as the active sanitizer either bromine or chlorine depending on which salt is used.

Onzen also incorporates ozone as an oxidizer and silver ions (US only) as a bacteriostat. (Please google those terms for further information).

I think the Pioneer site (makers of the Genesis System salt sanitizer) has a good explanation about how saline sanitization works.

[larrys1]

I went to a Spa Chemical 101 class this last weekend at Apollo Spas and was told to turn my Onzen inside the cabinet ALL THE WAY UP and then use just the top control panel to control Onzen output. Does that sound right?

Also, he made it sound like I should adjust Alk and PH FIRST and then add salt, but the Onzen manual shows adding the salt first and then doing the other checks. Which is correct?

[larrys1]

Here is the answer I received from Onzen Support:

Using the low level programming to control your Onzen system is the correct

method of operation. Turning the dial all the way up allows the generator

to operate 24 hours a day but only when power is supplied. The power

supplied to the generator is now controlled by the pack and topside through

low level programming controlling how long the generator will now stay on.

Checking and stabilizing the PH and Alkalinity prior to adding the salt

makes certain the levels are correct. Usually the levels are correct as the

water is stabilized from the city supply. Once you add salt the PH and

Alkalinity levels can change and therefore you should check those levels

again once the salt is added.

[Wet in ChiTown]

I have decided not to worry so much about my water chemistry so much. It's starting to drive me nuts worrying about if I am doing it right or not. All I know is toes look crystal clear when my feet are at the bottom, my water isn't a weird color and it doesn't smell. I have my Onzen set for 8 hours a day and at the end of the day I add 1/2 tablespoon of Refresh for every person that was in that day, and once a week I add 8 tablespoons. And if that keeps me seeing my toes, then I'm just going to keep doing what I am doing.

Hi my name is Wet in ChiTown and I'm a recovering "worry about water chemistryaholic." I knew I hit rock bottom when I when was using 10 test strips a day, and that wasn't enough. And thanks to the Betty Rubble clinic I am now down to 1 test strip a week and I never felt better.

[Tom]

Here is the answer I received from Onzen Support:

Using the low level programming to control your Onzen system...

A quick note here for international readers: I believe that the North American and International versions operate differently. Please contact Onzen Support for specific instructions.

[Souk]

Hello All,

I just got my Arctic Yukon Spa two days ago and was also wondering about the chemicals and also wanted verification that I'm doing things right. Thanks for the clarification and also thanks to Tom; his support on the forums was one of the factors for me in choosing Arctic Spa over other brands. Tom is always there to help out and get owners the answers they are looking for. So far I'm loving my Yukon and I don't regret going with an Arctic Spa.

The one thing that I'm still fuzzy on is the Ultra Spa chemical that came with my chemical kit. I remember the installer said it made the water silky and conditioned the water. My water is already silky now and I don't want to add any, is there any guidelines on how much and when to add the Ultra Spa chemical?

TIA

[Tom]

The one thing that I'm still fuzzy on is the Ultra Spa chemical that came with my chemical kit. I remember the installer said it made the water silky and conditioned the water. My water is already silky now and I don't want to add any, is there any guidelines on how much and when to add the Ultra Spa chemical?

I'm not familiar with that product but did find it here. (scroll down, it's low on the page). Looks interesting. As far as I can tell, it's an algecide. Since it also claims to kill bacteria, it requires EPA registration. EPA is ghastly to search. Anybody?

As far as I know, the only factory-approved chemicals are our own Arctic Pure line. However, our dealers often find something that they like that works well in their market area for local water conditions. Your dealer should be your first source of instruction for this product.

[Souk]

Hi,

The Ultra Spa is actually a Arctic Pure product. I found it online here

[Tom]

The Ultra Spa is actually a Arctic Pure product.

That's interesting.

I'll have to look into this.

Update: I received the MSDS from our supplier. Ultra-Spa is a proprietary blend of borates used as a "spa water conditioner and buffer."

According to the supplier, it's been in our chemical lineup since 2001, though I have never encountered it since joining the company in 2003. We don't have it in the Factory Showroom. It's not on the Chemicals Order Form our supplier provided in 2005 for our dealers' use and it's not on my list of Arctic Pure Spa Care Products.

This is mildly embarrassing.