I Am Ripping Mad Right Now...

[kateyc61]

We purchased a D1 Nautillus spa at the San Diego County Fair in July. We were vacillating between that one and a smaller Jacuzzi model.

Our one sticking point with the D1 was it's size. We are putting on an addition, and once the cement gets poured for the sidewalks and patio, we will have just 8 feet of clearance.

We informed the salesperson of this, and he IMMEDIATELY came back with "NO PROBLEM at ALL! We'll just take the spa off the dolly, and lay some PVC pipe and roll it back there"

OK, that sounded reasonable. We put down half the price and bought the D1 spa.

Yesterday we called the local store to tell them we are three weeks out and to start putting the spa together, and the manager asks about clearance etc, and my husband relates what we were told at the fair.

"Oh no way" says she immediately. "There is no way you can do that" and then the clincher "Those people will tell you anything to sell you a spa, you'll have to get a crane "

UMMMM ---THOSE PEOPLE?? The people who work for you??

What kind of BS is this??

He told them to not start building the spa after all.

I want to cancel the order and go elsewhere, he wants me not to jump the gun, and that we will figure it out.

I still say it's bullshit, and I'm pissed as hell.

Any thoughts from the peanut gallery?

[cooltoy2000]

I am not from the peanut gallery, but I hope you will accept my reply.

Give your dealer an opportunity to make things right, and if they do not go elsewhere.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

I am not from the peanut gallery, but I hope you will accept my reply.

Give your dealer an opportunity to make things right, and if they do not go elsewhere.

Give them a chance but let them know they're on their final chance. What size spa did you order that they can't get in an 8' clearance?

As far as the fair goes, it's a nice place to shop because you get to see many spa makers but you don't get any better deal than you get at a dealer and you often run into hired traveling sales people who do tend to tell you what you want to hear to get the sale knowing they won't be around later to have to resolve issues. He may have thought his advice was accurate or he may have figured "I'll tell them what they want to hear to make the sale and let others straighten it out", tough to say for sure.

[poollady]

Give them a chance but let them know they're on their final chance. What size spa did you order that they can't get in an 8' clearance?

As far as the fair goes, it's a nice place to shop because you get to see many spa makers but you don't get any better deal than you get at a dealer and you often run into hired traveling sales people who do tend to tell you what you want to hear to get the sale knowing they won't be around later to have to resolve issues. He may have thought his advice was accurate or he may have figured "I'll tell them what they want to hear to make the sale and let others straighten it out", tough to say for sure.

I agree with the above comment. Shop at the fair, but don't let them push you into buying there. If it's a deal, it will still be a deal next week. Shop at the fair, but go to the dealership to talk to the actual people who will you will be dealing with for many years to come.

[Kreg]

I agree with the above comment. Shop at the fair, but don't let them push you into buying there. If it's a deal, it will still be a deal next week. Shop at the fair, but go to the dealership to talk to the actual people who will you will be dealing with for many years to come.

If the dealer is hiring salespeople like that, they are to blame as well! I still don't understand why you would need a crane if you have 8 ft of clearance. Sounds like there is more to the story about your backyard?

[spatech (the unreal one)]

If the dealer is hiring salespeople like that, they are to blame as well! I still don't understand why you would need a crane if you have 8 ft of clearance. Sounds like there is more to the story about your backyard?

That was my initial thought which is why I asked what size it was (or model) so we would know the situation better.

[kateyc61]

That was my initial thought which is why I asked what size it was (or model) so we would know the situation better.

Thanks guys. ST--it's the D1 Nautilus seven person---let me see if I can find the link to it. The sich is that all is good except for an over hang from the eaves/roof that is too low once we put in the sidewalk, I think I have that right, I can let you all know once my hubby gets home and I can get specific measurments from him

The song and dance I got from the local dealer is that she is NOT responsible for the guys at the fair or anything they promise??

And that it is an ongoing problem and the bane of her existance. Sheesh. She did more bitching than I did, asked me to write a letter to corporate, etc.

However she told us it was a binding contract and we would not be getting our $$$ back. I said "oh yes we will, if we need to, we used Amex"

here is the link to the spa:

Darn. I was so excited about it!

http://www.d1spas.com/spa_selector.asp?spa=9

I agree with the above comment. Shop at the fair, but don't let them push you into buying there. If it's a deal, it will still be a deal next week. Shop at the fair, but go to the dealership to talk to the actual people who will you will be dealing with for many years to come.

Yes, I see thast now poollady. HA! Hindsight is a beautiful thing. I did post when I first was considering buying it at he fair, that's how I found you guys, but I think it got buried in the D1 topic.

If only I had started a topic I bet you all would have warned me off the fair wheeling and dealing, eh?

She called them "closers" and "sharks that would say anything to sell a spa"

Then she bemoaned the fact that they got the commission and she didn't.

I need to go soak my head.

In a spa.

[Kreg]

Thanks guys. ST--it's the D1 Nautilus seven person---let me see if I can find the link to it. The sich is that all is good except for an over hang from the eaves/roof that is too low once we put in the sidewalk, I think I have that right, I can let you all know once my hubby gets home and I can get specific measurments from him

The song and dance I got from the local dealer is that she is NOT responsible for the guys at the fair or anything they promise??

And that it is an ongoing problem and the bane of her existance. Sheesh. She did more bitching than I did, asked me to write a letter to corporate, etc.

However she told us it was a binding contract and we would not be getting our $$$ back. I said "oh yes we will, if we need to, we used Amex"

here is the link to the spa:

Darn. I was so excited about it!

http://www.d1spas.com/spa_selector.asp?spa=9

Yes, I see thast now poollady. HA! Hindsight is a beautiful thing. I did post when I first was considering buying it at he fair, that's how I found you guys, but I think it got buried in the D1 topic.

If only I had started a topic I bet you all would have warned me off the fair wheeling and dealing, eh?

She called them "closers" and "sharks that would say anything to sell a spa"

Then she bemoaned the fact that they got the commission and she didn't.

I need to go soak my head.

In a spa.

They should offer to pay for half of the crane, if necessary. That seems reasonable to me. Unfortunately, the salesman at the show didnt ask the right questions in regards to your backyard. It probably wasnt intentional, but I have found that most salesmen don't understand the little things that can make a delivery difficult.

[kateyc61]

They should offer to pay for half of the crane, if necessary. That seems reasonable to me. Unfortunately, the salesman at the show didnt ask the right questions in regards to your backyard. It probably wasnt intentional, but I have found that most salesmen don't understand the little things that can make a delivery difficult.

Ah, no kreg, the hubby was very specific. he is an Engineer and they knew full well not getting the spa in the back was a deal breaker and we would go with the Jacuzzi.

Hence the song and dance I guess.

I feel really stupid right now to have swallowed that BS, but you get excited about something.....

[Kreg]

Sorry about your experience. Spas are supposed to relax you!

[Rolexor]

First I have worked selling custom furniture so I know a little about how this can play out so you need to get your ducks in a row now before either you or your husband say anything more. I would talk to him and see what it is that you guys will accept from them whether that is for them to incurr whatever costs or for them to split it or whatever. Also find out exactly what your contract reads. My guess is that they have covered their ass and it was just an oral promise, in which case AMEX will side with the retailer, been through this several times, so I know they will go with what is in black and white, it may be a thorn in the side of the retailer but a letter is all they need to provide to keep your money.

Next, I would find out from them (without showing your cards) what are they willing to do to make this right. If it lines up with what you wanted than you are all set, if it doesn't though, then I would serve them with papers for small claims court, usually an arbitrator will be assigned to talk to both parties and try to resolve the issue in a case like this. Courts will usually side with the Consumer in these instances, but you probably won't get back all of your money, because the contract I'm sure reads something like what the manager alluded to that your deposit is forfeit. So at that point you will need to decide if you want to go with what the arbitrator thinks is fair or if you want to continue in front of a judge.

If it gets that far I would either find a way to inform the manager that you are recording the conversation and get her to repeat her thoughts on the phone about how they will lie to make a sale or get her to write a statement to that effect. I wouldn't hold my breath for either of those to happen, so you might want to check into a personal recording device, and the legality of wearing it and recording a conversation in a public place (like their showroom), where you might get her to say something like that. With anything like this you have an absolute winner, otherwise you have a little better than a 50/50 chance of coming out on top depending on the circumstances.

But the biggest thing is not to lose your temper and don't say I'll see you in court or anything like that. You will get much further by being cooperative and pleasant than, by making people who may otherwise help you feel like they need to be on the defensive.

Good Luck,

Greg

[Canadian Kahuna]

I think your best bet to get it recorded would be to go into the store first and have a tape recorder (one of those minny dictating ones with the sensitivity set on "high") BEFORE you try to do it over the phone . . . the reason being is i know law here in Canada because we've dealt with something similar (recording conversations) . . . it is perfectly legal and will stand up in court if it's hidden and done person to person, but if it's done on the phone, the other party MUST be told the conversation is being recorded. Needless to say, once the recording on our end was heard, we won. But, if you do go into the store, be calm, go about like you are trying to resolve the situation and casually get them to mention about the sales tactics used, otherwise they could become suspiscious and shut up. And DO NOT tell them in the end you have it recorded. If they meet you and decide to do something, you will not need the recording and you won't have a bad rep with the store, who after all will be the ones taking care of you in the future. But, if they don't resolve the situation, the Ace is now in your hand as they have no idea what you have for evidence, and are likely to blow them out of court . . . but check with local laws, most lawyers will give quick free advice in hopes of gaining buisniness should the need arise.

[kateyc61]

Sorry about your experience. Spas are supposed to relax you!

Well thank you for the shoulder to cry on !

It really does help.

greg and kahuna, I very much appreciate your calm reasoned approach to this as I blather away too. This is a great forum.

...except for you guys missing the part where I was buying it at the fair and not warning me...mutter mutter mutter... KIDDING!!!

bwaaaahahahhaa!

[Wmartin]

It really stinks when you are really clear and people misrepresent themselves. For the retailer not take any portion of the responsibility is wrong regardless of the loose relationship with the sales people. The retailer is still making $$$ (and the retailer has a legitimate grip they can take up with their rep, its not your job to do that, your not the retailer!).

[as2240]

We purchased a D1 Nautillus spa at the San Diego County Fair in July. We were vacillating between that one and a smaller Jacuzzi model.

Our one sticking point with the D1 was it's size. We are putting on an addition, and once the cement gets poured for the sidewalks and patio, we will have just 8 feet of clearance.

We informed the salesperson of this, and he IMMEDIATELY came back with "NO PROBLEM at ALL! We'll just take the spa off the dolly, and lay some PVC pipe and roll it back there"

OK, that sounded reasonable. We put down half the price and bought the D1 spa.

Yesterday we called the local store to tell them we are three weeks out and to start putting the spa together, and the manager asks about clearance etc, and my husband relates what we were told at the fair.

"Oh no way" says she immediately. "There is no way you can do that" and then the clincher "Those people will tell you anything to sell you a spa, you'll have to get a crane "

UMMMM ---THOSE PEOPLE?? The people who work for you??

What kind of BS is this??

He told them to not start building the spa after all.

I want to cancel the order and go elsewhere, he wants me not to jump the gun, and that we will figure it out.

I still say it's bullshit, and I'm pissed as hell.

Any thoughts from the peanut gallery?

Here is your first problem.... you bought a hot tub at a fair!!! They are like a circus act at those things!!! Granite, some places you go even if its in a store, will tell you what you want to hear to make a sale, but then that person is still there for you to go bitch at!!! Second of all the pricing at those things is unbeliveable!! how can anyone really think they are getting a good deal there??? they say the prices are 12 grand but "its on sale now for 8500 if you buy it today" Basically im trying to say that you should do a little more shopping around before you go and buy a tub at a fair!!

[kateyc61]

Here is your first problem.... you bought a hot tub at a fair!!! They are like a circus act at those things!!! Granite, some places you go even if its in a store, will tell you what you want to hear to make a sale, but then that person is still there for you to go bitch at!!! Second of all the pricing at those things is unbeliveable!! how can anyone really think they are getting a good deal there??? they say the prices are 12 grand but "its on sale now for 8500 if you buy it today" Basically im trying to say that you should do a little more shopping around before you go and buy a tub at a fair!!

Yeah, for damn sure it was a circus act. Just as irritating as car buying IMO, and NO air conditioning or new car smell!

We shopped around a lot, actually. We went to the fair to do side by side comparisons, went to the Hallmark Pools store the next day and talked to the manager. She said she could do no better on the D1 nautilus than they did.

Shopped around some more, compared prices on the net, and looked at a few other spas. narrowed it down to the jacuzzi and D1 (really wanted the D1 tho)

Went back to the fair on the last day, and the spa shark salesman actially took another 400 dollars off when we voiced an interest in the Jacuzzi.

Of course about 300 of that will be sucked up with the crane we need to use. They did a site inspection yesterday and said there was no way it could be dolleyed back

We ended up out the door with the d1 Nautilus for 7995 (before tax)

Howzat?

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Shopped around some more, compared prices on the net, and looked at a few other spas. narrowed it down to the jacuzzi and D1 (really wanted the D1 tho)

Of course about 300 of that will be sucked up with the crane we need to use. They did a site inspection yesterday and said there was no way it could be dolleyed back

Howzat?

So are you going with the crane? If you have an 8' overhang the delivery guys won't want to go much beyond 7' square spa and I can understand that so unless you're willing to go with a smaller spa it sounds like the crane is the way to go. Most large spas are square so it's typical to find 7.5' sq, 7' sq ... but there are some rectangular ones that can be 7'x7.5' that might fit better wihtout getting much smaller if you're against the crane.

Just out of curiosity, who else (from what you remember) did you look at to get it down to D1 and Jacuzzi?

[kateyc61]

So are you going with the crane? If you have an 8' overhang the delivery guys won't want to go much beyond 7' square spa and I can understand that so unless you're willing to go with a smaller spa it sounds like the crane is the way to go. Most large spas are square so it's typical to find 7.5' sq, 7' sq ... but there are some rectangular ones that can be 7'x7.5' that might fit better wihtout getting much smaller if you're against the crane.

Just out of curiosity, who else (from what you remember) did you look at to get it down to D1 and Jacuzzi?

Whoo boy, let's see

Caldera (not at fair)

LA Spas

Cal spas (not at fair)

Costco (not at fair)

Dynasty (liked them too)

I took the kids on rides, the hubby looked at a few more--some steel framed job with an unbelievable price for the TV/SPA/Gazebo/surround sound (like 3000?) I can't remember the name. I was fried by then.

Some no name spa at Leslies Pool supply---scary.

We were not looking for all the bells and whistles/waterfalls/light shows/stereos/TV

Oh , and yes, we ae going with the crane.

I will be writing to the VP of Sales and Marketing of D1 and outlining our experience as well.

l

[pzeeker]

Whoo boy, let's see

Caldera (not at fair)

LA Spas

Cal spas (not at fair)

Costco (not at fair)

Dynasty (liked them too)

I took the kids on rides, the hubby looked at a few more--some steel framed job with an unbelievable price for the TV/SPA/Gazebo/surround sound (like 3000?) I can't remember the name. I was fried by then.

Some no name spa at Leslies Pool supply---scary.

We were not looking for all the bells and whistles/waterfalls/light shows/stereos/TV

Oh , and yes, we ae going with the crane.

I will be writing to the VP of Sales and Marketing of D1 and outlining our experience as well.

l

Thanks for the informative post. I was at a fair last night and was skeptical when walking up to the SUNDANCE sales cretin. I didn't have to worry about his lying because I turned and walked away when he actually said "If you are not smart enough to see that Sundance is the best spa made, then go buy something else"

GEE, insult me first and then I'll write that check to buy your spa. what rock do they find these people under. it's a shame but it seems that there is a portion of this industry that deserves the horrible reputation.

[cooltoy2000]

[Brulan1]

A crane is a small portion of what the tub costs. In NY it costs $500 to lift it up on the 14th floor. In long island it costs 450 in residential. Now that is cheap enough after a 8K dollar tub. I beleive the D1 is alot nicer than the Jacuzzi. If your husband is an engineer he should of realized by common sense that it wasn't going to fit.

[thestallion]

Based on the size of the spa and the clearance you have while it will be tight, I do not see why it will not work ? Has anyone from the dealer come to do a site inspection if not that would clear up any doubt. My thoughts if a crane is needed make the dealer pay or cancel. The dealer can take it out of the salesman commission since he was not accurate based on what you have shared.

[Brulan1]

Based on the size of the spa and the clearance you have while it will be tight, I do not see why it will not work ? Has anyone from the dealer come to do a site inspection if not that would clear up any doubt. My thoughts if a crane is needed make the dealer pay or cancel. The dealer can take it out of the salesman commission since he was not accurate based on what you have shared.

That salesman was payed more commision at the fair than an average salesperson that workes in house. But mabye they can meet half way on the crane job. Chances they get a jacuzzi the same size to fit is not probable.

[Amanda]

Katey,

It sounds like you've been through quite a bit. Sorry to hear of your troubles.

It may be a good idea to find out exactly where this "hired saleperson" came from and who hired him. I have heard of this many times before unfortunately. If the person representing the company is not complete with his information, the company should know about it. Perhaps informing the company about the error of his ways and how it has effected you will help stop this from happening to unsuspecting folks in the future. I think this may have been what the dealer was trying to explain but may have lacked some tact. If he simply did not know to ask about that, it seems a bit more education for the sales staff would need to happen. If he knew it was going to make the deal and simply avoided it to get his commission, that would be slimey character. While everyone else is running around trying to help make things right for you, he is sitting back with a fatter wallet and not having to deal with the repercussions of his ignorance or lack of care. Maybe there is a way to transfer the salesperson from his name to the dealer who is caring for you.

Sometimes if you let someone know that you are recording a conversation, it will help get the truth out a bit faster and eliminate the "run-around". I don't know if I would agree with secretly recording a conversation, but documenting everything very clearly with names, dates, and what was said is always a good idea and should protect you just as well. Best of luck to you.

-Amanda

[Jim_The_Jim]

Here is some truth about Home and Garden shows

http://www.xxxx.com/feb2000.html