geoffkhall Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 I was wanting to buy a small cheap spa. Home Depot has the Keys 330T 3 person corner spa for $1999. I read a few posts about people not liking theses brands because of the lack of insulation and the related energy costs. My question is would it be worth it to spend a little extra and buy some spray insulation, pipe insulation and insulate it myself? I'm not expecting this $2k spa to perform the same at a $5k spa. I know I get what I pay for. I just can't justify spending $5k if I only use it a few times a week. Thanks, Geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaamus Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 How many cans of spray foam were you looking to purchase at HD at $8/can to fill a spa cavity? That's a bigger cost than you think. There are other ways to insulate though, just do a search for it on this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffkhall Posted February 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 How many cans of spray foam were you looking to purchase at HD at $8/can to fill a spa cavity? That's a bigger cost than you think. There are other ways to insulate though, just do a search for it on this forum. I was looking at a large tank to do the spray insulation. Perhaps something like http://www.fomofoam.com/. I was also thinking of using bags of insulation like packing peanuts to fill the larger spaces. I don't know what the inside of the corner tub looks like so I don't know what I would need just yet. Anyone have any pics? My main question is, is it worth it to try to insulate myself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spatech (the unreal one) Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 If you really only have $2k to spend one of your choices is a cheap big box spa but you need to be a real handy person IMO because issues will arise on these because they're less than stellar and you'll be on your own (the warranty is often little more than a piece of paper). You do at least seem to understand what you're getting unlike many who just assume "a spa is just a spa". Another option is getting a good used spa for $2k and if you're patient and look around I think you'd be better off that way. There are plenty of them out there on Craigslist (some great deals some not so great). Of course you'd be your own service guy for this also except you can get some very good used spas nowadays and quality ones at that. Good luck either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillbilly Hot Tub Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 If you're looking to spend $2k on a spa your choices are a cheap big box spa but you need to be a real handy person IMO because issues will arise on these because they're less than stellar and you'll be on your own (the warranty is often little more than a piece of paper). You do at least seem to understand what you're getting unlike many who just assume "a spa is just a spa". Another option is getting a good used spa. There are plenty of them out there on Craigslist. Of course you'd also be your own service guy for this also except you can get some very good used spas nowadays and quality ones at that. Good luck either way. The blow up cover you get with that spa will be an issue too. Fill the spa with foam to have all the heat leak out the cover...heat rises. I would not spray all your plumbing with foam, you are probley going to have soom leak issues to deal with and if you can get them to cover the warrant, they will not pay the extra time to dig off the foam. You also have to be careful with spray on foams, they cause major heat when they cure which can casue other issues. Look into a foil foam insulation board or foil bubble insulation and plan on purchasing a cover. If you want to deal with all this, add up the costs to the savings see how close you are....don't forget the prorated warrany (unless Infinity is going to change that) and see what you are really saving. There are some other companies out there that have "entry level" tubs for less than 5 grand, and will better back the warranty ect, so look around a bit. This time of year look for an 07 leftover or possibly a second/dent and scratch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chas Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 The blow up cover you get with that spa will be an issue too. Fill the spa with foam to have all the heat leak out the cover...heat rises. Not again. OK, here we go - heat does NOT rise. It will go in any direction from hot to cold. This is one of the most fundamental laws of physics, next to conservation of motion. Hot air is less dense than cold air, so hot air does rise. But that is not the same thing at all. A tub needs to have a good cover, no doubt about that, but to be energy efficient a tub needs good insulation all around, top to bottom. And please, let's not go directly to, "you wouldn't want your house to..." No comparison, for a dozen reasons. OK - I'm over it. Thanks for listening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TinyBubbles Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 The blow up cover you get with that spa will be an issue too. Fill the spa with foam to have all the heat leak out the cover...heat rises. Not again. OK, here we go - heat does NOT rise. It will go in any direction from hot to cold. This is one of the most fundamental laws of physics, next to conservation of motion. Hot air is less dense than cold air, so hot air does rise. But that is not the same thing at all. A tub needs to have a good cover, no doubt about that, but to be energy efficient a tub needs good insulation all around, top to bottom. And please, let's not go directly to, "you wouldn't want your house to..." No comparison, for a dozen reasons. OK - I'm over it. Thanks for listening. More importantly when dealing with spas, if the surface of your water cools, warm water will rise to replace it and the cold water on the surface will sink and lower the temp of the water in your spa. Then your heater will need to turn on. A good cover on your spa is kinda like a lid on your coffee cup. A poor quality cover would be kinda like blowing on your coffee to cool it down. Ok, no eye rolling at the analogy. Like Chad said, heat is going to radiate to colder surroundings. Hopefully, a spa with quality insulation will keep the cold outside air from coming in contact with the warm shell, slowing the heat flow. Spa manufacturers using thermo-pane insulation claim the heat from the motors fill the air in the cabinet and that's what insulates their spa. If you fill that airspace with bags of peanuts, aren't you defeating this design? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillbilly Hot Tub Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 The blow up cover you get with that spa will be an issue too. Fill the spa with foam to have all the heat leak out the cover...heat rises. Not again. OK, here we go - heat does NOT rise. It will go in any direction from hot to cold. This is one of the most fundamental laws of physics, next to conservation of motion. Hot air is less dense than cold air, so hot air does rise. But that is not the same thing at all. A tub needs to have a good cover, no doubt about that, but to be energy efficient a tub needs good insulation all around, top to bottom. And please, let's not go directly to, "you wouldn't want your house to..." No comparison, for a dozen reasons. OK - I'm over it. Thanks for listening. Correct me if I am wrong, but i did bring up about insulating the sides too. I have seen a lot of cases of inexspensive, thinner covers that lose heat, hence the snow melting in certain places or more quickly on thin chinese covers. Thin cover would be colder, then attacting the warm air and so on. Without a good cover, at least here in the North, we lose a lot of heat. The blow up covers are also not allowed in a lot of towns. They do not comply with BOCA codes. I was trying to show the cost that he would have to put in to bring the tub up to better effciency, never mind the other quality issues, thats all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffkhall Posted February 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2008 So makes a good "corner spa" cover? Most of the website i have looked at are square covers only. Anyone else out there have one of these Keys Corner spas? Pics would be great! -Geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdx_soaker Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 It's not worth it to try and fill the whole cavity. The dead air itself is a pretty good insulator. I'd say just get some of those solid sheets and insulate the sides. That way you've got the foam on the tub itself + dead air + extra insulation around the sides. It's not like there is going to be a lot of air movement between the hot air in the tub and the outside anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Spa Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 Air is a GREAT insulator,in fact, almost all insulation relys on air to achieve their insualation properties. BUT, air only insulates when it's contained in tiny spaces (that's what "insulation does", it contains air in tiny spaces). Anything over 1/4" to 1/2" is NOT "dead air" and convection eliminates any insulation value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 Air is a GREAT insulator,in fact, almost all insulation relys on air to achieve their insualation properties. BUT, air only insulates when it's contained in tiny spaces (that's what "insulation does", it contains air in tiny spaces). Anything over 1/4" to 1/2" is NOT "dead air" and convection eliminates any insulation value. As a matter of fact air, in a situation like that, is the worst insulator you could get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joeybobby Posted February 15, 2008 Report Share Posted February 15, 2008 How many cans of spray foam were you looking to purchase at HD at $8/can to fill a spa cavity? That's a bigger cost than you think. There are other ways to insulate though, just do a search for it on this forum. I was looking at a large tank to do the spray insulation. Perhaps something like http://www.fomofoam.com/. I was also thinking of using bags of insulation like packing peanuts to fill the larger spaces. I don't know what the inside of the corner tub looks like so I don't know what I would need just yet. Anyone have any pics? My main question is, is it worth it to try to insulate myself? I called an insulation company and they said they would top mine up for $400 bucks and I live in Canada.. In the US it would probably be cheaper.. I would go that route instead of ordering that stuff...... It would probably be cheaper and easier for you...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastside Spas Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 I was wanting to buy a small cheap spa. Home Depot has the Keys 330T 3 person corner spa for $1999. I read a few posts about people not liking theses brands because of the lack of insulation and the related energy costs. My question is would it be worth it to spend a little extra and buy some spray insulation, pipe insulation and insulate it myself? I'm not expecting this $2k spa to perform the same at a $5k spa. I know I get what I pay for. I just can't justify spending $5k if I only use it a few times a week. Thanks, Geoff Hopefully you have not gone ahead and bought this tub... Let me air some problems you can expect. I work on Keys tubs regularly and this particular model is imported from China and has numerous issues: 1. Single speed pump is very noisy 2. Spa frame is metal, with no insulation for dampening noise 3. The plumbing to the pump is subject to collapsing from weak plumbing and numerous tight bends in the piping 4. Unit is difficult to prime and often requires unscrewing the panel and loosening pump unions to accomplish this. 5. Cover provided is a soft cover and has problems staying on without falling into the water. Overall this is a substandard product and I have seen most returned in short order. While the price is cheap, I hope your sanity is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxphoenix Posted February 20, 2008 Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 I was wanting to buy a small cheap spa. Home Depot has the Keys 330T 3 person corner spa for $1999. I read a few posts about people not liking theses brands because of the lack of insulation and the related energy costs. My question is would it be worth it to spend a little extra and buy some spray insulation, pipe insulation and insulate it myself? I'm not expecting this $2k spa to perform the same at a $5k spa. I know I get what I pay for. I just can't justify spending $5k if I only use it a few times a week. Thanks, Geoff Hopefully you have not gone ahead and bought this tub... Let me air some problems you can expect. I work on Keys tubs regularly and this particular model is imported from China and has numerous issues: 1. Single speed pump is very noisy 2. Spa frame is metal, with no insulation for dampening noise 3. The plumbing to the pump is subject to collapsing from weak plumbing and numerous tight bends in the piping 4. Unit is difficult to prime and often requires unscrewing the panel and loosening pump unions to accomplish this. 5. Cover provided is a soft cover and has problems staying on without falling into the water. Overall this is a substandard product and I have seen most returned in short order. While the price is cheap, I hope your sanity is not. Didn't get in a hurry and picked up a 2004 Jacuzzi J375 like new for 1350.00. Bought new filters and getting ready to install ozonator. That was in Dec. and have used it everyday since. Even the ice in your hair days. Love it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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