My First Power Bill After Hot Tub!

[spatech (the unreal one)]

[

'thestallion' I'm not sure of what your saying since I have no agenda and could care less what a person decides to purchase.

Relax Biggzy, he was referring to Soakerman.

[biggz]

Mike, the difference between your September and October bill was a big difference. The difference between your November and October bill was big. The difference between September and November was huge! My point...it may not just be your tub effecting your bill. Dirty furnace filters, extra loads of laundry, longer showers, outside temperatures, can all effect power bills. One lady was on here absolutely freaked out about her huge power bills since owning a spa, ends up she had added a room onto her home. I think it's really hard for you to get a clear picture since you can't compare apples to apples (power bill for last year at this time). And look at it this way, you paid $236 in September to enjoy your ac, this month you only paid $177 to enjoy your spa. There does seem to be a big difference between the energy consumption of full foam vs. non-full foam spas, but if you are enjoying your spa, then put it in perspective. Maybe you could get set up on a levelized billing program with your power company. It is nice, however, to hear your experience so that others can make an informed decision when they are purchasing a spa. I hope your insulation helps you out.

I own a Keys spa... <snip> All tubs will have problems over time but to learn the luxury of a good soak doesn't mean soaking your wallet the first time out the gate. <clip>

Biggz

true true, personally I bought a floor model at a show and got a unbeatable deal (time will tell). Buying a spa is alot like reading this thread <heh> Hey I looked at the Keys spas because I could get credit through HomeDespot and I don't think that is quite the same thing as Costco in terms of what level of service you can expect... and while they were very fairly priced, I don't think there has been much labeling of Keys spas as a "Box Store" item. In fairness to our victim...I mean the new Forum member, I reposted TinyBubbz' post so we could maybe do Mike some good, thanks Biggz for bringing up Tiny's post.

And for Mike, you can search the forum for the word "insulation" and find lots of information...although reading through all the BS takes dedication, there is some excellent detailed info to be gathered. A recent post gave a great link but it was just a "look here" and might be hard to find, but should be in this top level of topics. Whittle down all the little things that can add up dollar by dollar... like leaving the air jets open when you get out. That allows your spa to suck in cold air during filter cycles and cool the water. When you get out close the little levers that add bubbles. Then there's thing like "blankets", a sheet of custom cut bubble wrap type material that lies directly on your water surface... and different spa covers etc. Hopefully you have looked at some of these topics already as you are not the only one suffering the woes of winter heating a big kettle of allegedly clear and sparkling people stew.

what?

I was paying you a compliment the person with an agenda is Soakerman. You were very fair and reasonable in your assessment of the spa. I was totally sincere when I said congratulations.

Duh, My Bad

[B0Darc]

[

'thestallion' I'm not sure of what your saying since I have no agenda and could care less what a person decides to purchase.

Relax Biggzy, he was referring to Soakerman.

[chuckling] We love ya Biggz

..and shouts out to the soakerman. Here's a little forum hug for ya, bro {{{soakerman}}} Everyone is so free with their opinion... another day on Internet forums. Pardon my aging cynicism... the times they are a' changin' and it's not always for the best... forgive my Devil's Advocacy.

Bo "Shinin' the Darc light"

[Joe_Spa]

So I Have anxiously been waiting for my first power bill to come. I got my hot tub in early November right when my billing cylce began and I just got the bill for 1 full month of Electricity since owning my Hot Tub.

My Last three electric Bills were as follows:

September: $236 (AC was cranked)

October: $137

November: $95

Then December came and it was $177!!!!

That's a pretty big difference... I keep it on economy mode (101) and turn on to STD just about every night to I can soak for 20-30 minutes or so then it goes back to economy. I did have Christmas Lights on but that could only have been maybe $5-$10.

Any help???

We've got a Keys 7-person which was basically un-insulated, and our electric bill ran about $60 higher per month in the winter after it's installation (upstate NY - 13084 zip-code for weather info).. Just finished insulating it yesterday, and am curious to see what the impact is.. If you live in a cold-weather climate I'd suggest poking around under the tub to see what you've got for insulation. I added 1.5" foil-faced foam board to bottom and sides, with Reflectix applied as a "curtain" across the bottom and around the sides (inside of the 2x4 frame), and ensured air-space between the foam board and reflectix - then taped the seams between foam boards, and applied Tyvec house-wrap around the exterior before re-attaching the side pieces. Had to remove the 3/8" plywood blocking that was attached to the inside of the side pieces to get them to go back on.. Entire job took just over 8 hours, and cost around $200...

[thestallion]

Nice post Joe,

Sounds like you do a through job. I hope it saves you some dollars down the road...

[biasedhistorian]

So I Have anxiously been waiting for my first power bill to come. I got my hot tub in early November right when my billing cylce began and I just got the bill for 1 full month of Electricity since owning my Hot Tub.

My Last three electric Bills were as follows:

September: $236 (AC was cranked)

October: $137

November: $95

Then December came and it was $177!!!!

That's a pretty big difference... I keep it on economy mode (101) and turn on to STD just about every night to I can soak for 20-30 minutes or so then it goes back to economy. I did have Christmas Lights on but that could only have been maybe $5-$10.

Any help???

We've got a Keys 7-person which was basically un-insulated, and our electric bill ran about $60 higher per month in the winter after it's installation (upstate NY - 13084 zip-code for weather info).. Just finished insulating it yesterday, and am curious to see what the impact is.. If you live in a cold-weather climate I'd suggest poking around under the tub to see what you've got for insulation. I added 1.5" foil-faced foam board to bottom and sides, with Reflectix applied as a "curtain" across the bottom and around the sides (inside of the 2x4 frame), and ensured air-space between the foam board and reflectix - then taped the seams between foam boards, and applied Tyvec house-wrap around the exterior before re-attaching the side pieces. Had to remove the 3/8" plywood blocking that was attached to the inside of the side pieces to get them to go back on.. Entire job took just over 8 hours, and cost around $200...

Sounds like it came out great. I did the same thing yesterday, except I could not access the bottom because of the framing. I am hoping that reflective stuff does the trick, it was easy to work with. I used that on the sides and foam peanuts in garbage bags to fill up the dead areas inside the tub.

Let us know the energy savings!

[sasha]

We live in the Toronto area and have a J-280. We have noticed a $30.00 hydro bill increase, this is also with a drain and refill 4 weeks ago. We are in our tub at least 4 times a week minimum.

[thestallion]

We live in the Toronto area and have a J-280. We have noticed a $30.00 hydro bill increase, this is also with a drain and refill 4 weeks ago. We are in our tub at least 4 times a week minimum.

Don't let soakerman know that and also don't let him know that is a spa that you can find for under 6 grand. It makes all his rants look foolish and he seems to hate to have to deal with what you can really get from a dealer for the same money as a Costco spa costs.

[Chas]

We live in the Toronto area and have a J-280. We have noticed a $30.00 hydro bill increase,

Thanks for the info, but it is incomplete. We would need to know the KWH used. It would then be interesting to know what you pay per KWH, just as a comparison. You may have a very low rate per KWH, and be consuming more than other spas, while returning a low dollar amount.

[cplarsen]

Just got my bill for a cold month.

1998 D1 Arena, set at 103F.

Average outside temp was 18F, used 10.2 kwh more per day at $0.09 kwh.

Total increase in the bill was $36.30 over last year, when you throw in taxes and whatnot.

Couple of things going on here, which makes a strict comparison tough. It was warmer last winter, and I replaced an electric dryer with a gas one. But at a guess, I'd say the spa probably burned $50-$60. Not bad, all things considered.

[mck75]

Hi. I'm getting a new spa in a couple of weeks. I've been reading all the suggestions about energy conservation. Most of the posts are about spa covers and putting insulation inside or around the cabinet. What about underneath the tub? I'm planning to put it on a concrete patio. In an earlier post I asked about mylar and BODarc opined that condensation might be a problem. Is there something I could set the tub on that might help and wouldn't hurt? Short of building a special structure. The climate here is mild and not very humid.

[Chas]

Invest the money and time into a better tub. A brand-name tub will save you on energy costs, hassles, and is generally easier to live with.

And, they are well insulated right from the factory. We put our tubs right on slabs with no special insulation beneath them, we live in a mild climate, and we get very low operating costs. That's pretty important here because our electricity costs a lot.

Just a thought.

[ivieisme]

I just got my first bill! SCARY!!!!!! $341 in November, $460 in December!!!!!!!! OK, I have lights....so maybe $20? But, I used my A/C less in December, plus I was away for 3 days!

Last December I used 2771 kw, this Dec I used 3590. Same amount of Christmas lights.

Spa is a new Caldera Niagra. I'm in South Florida, where until today it has been very warm. I only keep the heat at 98, and soak about 3-4 times per week. Each time our toddler came in (maybe 4 times?) he turns all the jets on and off a bunch of times.

How much should an average spa high end 6-7 person spa cost to operate per month?

Should I have my house audited to see where the power drain is? Is there even such thing?

[mck75]

I'm getting a Marquis which is supposed to be well insulated. I just thought that if I was going to put something underneath that now would be the time.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

I just got my first bill! SCARY!!!!!! $341 in November, $460 in December!!!!!!!! OK, I have lights....so maybe $20? But, I used my A/C less in December, plus I was away for 3 days!

Last December I used 2771 kw, this Dec I used 3590. Same amount of Christmas lights.

Spa is a new Caldera Niagra. I'm in South Florida, where until today it has been very warm. I only keep the heat at 98, and soak about 3-4 times per week. Each time our toddler came in (maybe 4 times?) he turns all the jets on and off a bunch of times.

How much should an average spa high end 6-7 person spa cost to operate per month?

Should I have my house audited to see where the power drain is? Is there even such thing?

That's about a 27 KWH per day increase so something seems off. I know someone else had this issue last month on this site or at WTBHT and in the end they found that the utility company had estimated their usage and when they came out and actually read the meter the issue was not real. You might want to call and ask for a meter reading.

[Chas]

I'm getting a Marquis which is supposed to be well insulated. I just thought that if I was going to put something underneath that now would be the time.

That IS a brand-name tub - and well insulated. I don't think you should need anything under it.

Enjoy!

[Chas]

I just got my first bill! SCARY!!!!!!

Should I have my house audited to see where the power drain is? Is there even such thing?

Relax - the first bill is always the highest. And no, it's not just that you are heating the thing up from cold, because even water changes later on don't cost that much. But after having done this for 21 years, I always see the first month jump, and then it level off lower.

Don't have the place audited: most power companies do not know the first thing about what a tub costs to run, and they label them all as power hogs. They may even simply not do the audit if they find out you have a tub. I think this is totally ignorant on their part, and I would love to find a way to teach them that not all tubs consume the same amount of power.

If you are still worried about it in a few months, let me know and I will rent you my power meter to spec out your tub.

[mck75]

I'm getting a Marquis which is supposed to be well insulated. I just thought that if I was going to put something underneath that now would be the time.

That IS a brand-name tub - and well insulated. I don't think you should need anything under it.

Enjoy!

Thanks, Chas. I enjoy reading your posts as they are always very positive.

[dilauro]

I am not sure where I posted something to this effect before, but:

CT CL&P Electric (.18 kwh)

Sept = $330

Oct = $305

Nov = $312 Hot Tub purchased and installed 11/16

Dec = $506

I was told a big portion of the additional charges was for the start up (getting the water temp up) and the fact that

I was playing around with settings (Filter Settings, EC, Standard, temperature, etc) until I finally setting on

Standard Mode at 102 degrees.

I contacted my dealer and they are going to talk with MasterSpa if there is anything unusal. They are suppose to have

a rep come to my house and look at the setup. At this point, I was told if I add anything my self I would void my warranty, but if the company finds a problems (what are those chances) they would address it.

I will be interested to see the January bill. This past week the temps outside have been in the single figures here

[Chris W]

Ron, I think you'll find several factors contribute to your bill. Some things to keep in mind. Try to compare that bill to another month with similar conditions and rates to see how much of the contribution is from the tub. The 1st month or two seem to be ugly for new spa owners. We tend to play with things a lot more when they're brand new. My 1st bill showed an extra 1000 kwh over last December, and I'm in AZ . There were other factors as well, but the new spa didn't help. Neither did the fact that I was home to pay with it most of the time Some other things to consider; MasterSpa is not known to be the best thermopane design out there, and there have been several instances discussed on the forums of installation / service people further compromising the insulation during install or service. Another thing is the fact that MasterSpa uses a fairly large pump as the circulation/filter/heater pump and it runs 24/7. If I were you, I'd look for any obvious gaps in the side panels and corners. Make sure the refective bubble wrap stuff is intact and properly placed inside the side panels. If I were going to add insulation, the 1st thing I'd try would be another continuous layer of the reflective stuff, only cut out for the vents that are there by design.

Chris W

[FREDERICKSBURG]

A 6 HP pump would require over twenty amps at normal load. That is about 4500 watts at 220 volts - compare it to three 1500 watt room heaters running full blast or 75 light bulbs of 60 watts each.

If things are not designed well, or if a dirty filter puts more load on it, or if you can shuttle a divert valve to flow through a single large jet - in other words as the load on the motor goes up - the amps will spike.

That will draw a lot of amps - and that equals a lot of money. The good news in this regard is that there isn't a 6 HP pump available in the pool and spa industry, so you may not really have the size you were told - or the size it is even marked.

Also - I'm sorry to say that brand of tub is not well insulated, so I would agree with your statement above that you might want to investigate supplimenting the insulation.

I bought some insulation today and insulated the tub I really think it will make a difference, i used pink insulation i found at home depot for $10 for a roll of 40 feet. Its rated R-13 and i put it in insulation towards the tub (brown paper toward cabinent). Left out the insulation near the pump and electric.

I think this will hopefully help me dilemna...i think the motor HP is either 4.5 or 5 maybe not 6...the manual is in the files.

You can't make a silk purse from a sows ear, it's not the highest quality spa out there and putting home insulation inside it will probably keep the mice inside it warm.

[FREDERICKSBURG]

Hi. I'm getting a new spa in a couple of weeks. I've been reading all the suggestions about energy conservation. Most of the posts are about spa covers and putting insulation inside or around the cabinet. What about underneath the tub? I'm planning to put it on a concrete patio. In an earlier post I asked about mylar and BODarc opined that condensation might be a problem. Is there something I could set the tub on that might help and wouldn't hurt? Short of building a special structure. The climate here is mild and not very humid.

Buy an Arctic Spa the floor is gelcote fiberglass pedistal base insulated r27 per sqin

[mck75]

]

Buy an Arctic Spa the floor is gelcote fiberglass pedistal base insulated r27 per sqin

Unfortunately there are no Arctic Spa dealers in this part of California. (Anyway, we're already committed to getting a Marquis spa.) But thanks for your information.

[Joeybobby]

I just hooked up a Spa last month and am very afraid to get my next power bill....... Doesn't seem to be insulated very well for cold temperatures... The lack of spray foam and gap in the thermal blanket wrapped around the inside of the skirt probably isn't going to help... Oh ya, lets not forget the heat loss around the top of the skirt also where there is no place for the thermal blanket to even attach to..... Also, I can actually see snow down through the sides where the skirt attaches...... argh..... Manufacturer is sending me new insulation and foam but gawd what a pain in the rump to do that in the middle of winter.......

[Coastside Spas]

A 6 HP pump would require over twenty amps at normal load. That is about 4500 watts at 220 volts - compare it to three 1500 watt room heaters running full blast or 75 light bulbs of 60 watts each.

If things are not designed well, or if a dirty filter puts more load on it, or if you can shuttle a divert valve to flow through a single large jet - in other words as the load on the motor goes up - the amps will spike.

That will draw a lot of amps - and that equals a lot of money. The good news in this regard is that there isn't a 6 HP pump available in the pool and spa industry, so you may not really have the size you were told - or the size it is even marked.

Also - I'm sorry to say that brand of tub is not well insulated, so I would agree with your statement above that you might want to investigate supplimenting the insulation.

I bought some insulation today and insulated the tub I really think it will make a difference, i used pink insulation i found at home depot for $10 for a roll of 40 feet. Its rated R-13 and i put it in insulation towards the tub (brown paper toward cabinent). Left out the insulation near the pump and electric.

I think this will hopefully help me dilemna...i think the motor HP is either 4.5 or 5 maybe not 6...the manual is in the files.

As previously stated by posters above your issues have NOTHING to do with the pump size or HP rating... You pump is industry standard. Your problems with excessive energy costs are specific to Keys tubs. I know this because I service Keys tubs all the time and actively pursue feedback from my customers who own them. THEY ALL SAY THE SAME THING. A whopping big energy bill. Now here's the reasons:

1. Poorly insulated - Nothing on the shell and a thin layer on the side panels. Air gaps at the top where the panels go up under the shell lip. Air gaps at the bottom and big air gaps at the corners.

2. Poorly engineered plumbing causing pumps to over work and use more energy than required - This is noticeable when the pump or pumps are running on high speed and you can see the skimmer cavitating with the spa full, even with an anti-vortex skimmer top! This is also noticeable to the trained spa tech's ear when you hear the pump laboring to move water through far too many 90 degree turns and restrictive plumbing. This is evidenced when you see collapsed plumbing lines at the intake of the pump. This is evidenced when you hear the noisy rattle of the heater manifold from a excessive amount of suction, because the heater manifold is located on the suction side of a 4/5HP pump on sevral models.

3. Some models sport single speed pumps for the primary circulation pump. This means its running at high speed for filtration too.

My first suggestion would be to not buy it. If you have already, then insulate it and close up the skirting as tight as possible to reduce heat loss. This might also cut down on the excessive noise these spas produce.