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Hope this helps. And if anyone wants to question my advice I do happen to work in the industry! (reference to the recent attack by a 'professional' against one of the active members here who gave, IMHO, EXCELLENT advise and who has stopped posting here as a result! Said 'professional' has since disappeared from the board! Kind of says it all, don't it!) You might also want to read this thread! Thanks, I appreciate your response and the details.

Recently Ive been dealing with Hot Tub Rash... From the different threads on this forum and other forums, there seems to be a relationship about the CYA levels. 1) Say that 20ppm is a good level 2) Too much can make it difficult to maintain a good Free Cholrine level which in turn can lead to bacteria growing,= Itch 3) Test strips can not test for CYA levels 4) Two local Spa Service reps told me to ignore CYA, just make sure the Free Cholrine level is between 3 and 5 5) Drain, dont drain the spa, run the Filter more instead. Comments welcomed, I can tell you reading more documents, listening to more people , reading different forums, can just make this more confusing.

I am currently both an Administrator and Moderator at two Forum sites and a Moderator at a large site. Many times, when we delete posts, the remaining posts do not seem to make any sense (as was pointed out here). Its a difficult thing to do. Its clearer why the a specific post gets deleted. I've come to trust the moderators at forum sites. They have been given a responsibility that is pretty big and many times its a task that no one else really wants The best moderators I've come in contact with our teachers, helping the member community. I see this here. And at times, the moderator does have to become a police man. And then they make the best decision with the information available and for the best interest of the entire member community

I also have been thinking about the major difference and effects on electrical costs using Standard vs Economy mode I have a Masterspa Legacy Envison Tub (350gal 1 pump) My electrical costs have been sky high (Live in CT = 17 cents per KwH) Month Cost KwH Nov $306 1749 Hot tub installed 11/16/07 Dec $502 2904 $206 Increase Jan $512 3016 Again over $200 / month Talking with the electrical company, there calculator comes up with: 50 amp = apprx 1500 watts, 1.5-3hp, 720 months = $180, motor running 24 hours a day. Actual heating of the water would cost only $15 month. Now, they could not define what MOTOR is. So, I need help in defining these terms (if there is any difference) Motor Pump Heater To me, the motor is on 24 hours a day, thats just the power to the tub. The pump would be when the filter cycles kick in or any other time the low jets are on. And the heater is when it is necessary to bring the temperature up to the preset desired temperature. I have been set at Standard Mode and 102 degrees Today, I am switching to Economy Mode, same temp. I am using the FC default of 2 hours Should I see a difference in the electrical costs? Reading many different posts on this site, I am getting the feeling that the answer will be, maybe, just a little. Many people seem to prefer staying in Standard mode. I have a call into my dealer and into Masterspa. I can not believe I should be paying $200 extra a month for this tub. There are others living near me with old tubs that are paying $45 month with Standard Mode and 102-103 degrees. I was also told I could not add any insulation because that would void my warranty and a heat blanket on top of the water would not help that much. We love our tub, but boy $200 month x 12 months is pretty expensive. Any insights, suggestions, pointers would be appreciated. But I guess I really want to understand what the motor being on xx hours a day really means.

I have a question in terms of which Chlorine I can use. I have a Masterspa Envision Hot Tub. Currently, I am using the Sanitizer Chlorine that contain: 99% Sodium Dichloro 1% Triazintetrione Can I use the Chlorine tablets that contain: 99% Trichloro-S-Triazinetrione.

I am not sure where I posted something to this effect before, but: CT CL&P Electric (.18 kwh) Sept = $330 Oct = $305 Nov = $312 Hot Tub purchased and installed 11/16 Dec = $506 I was told a big portion of the additional charges was for the start up (getting the water temp up) and the fact that I was playing around with settings (Filter Settings, EC, Standard, temperature, etc) until I finally setting on Standard Mode at 102 degrees. I contacted my dealer and they are going to talk with MasterSpa if there is anything unusal. They are suppose to have a rep come to my house and look at the setup. At this point, I was told if I add anything my self I would void my warranty, but if the company finds a problems (what are those chances) they would address it. I will be interested to see the January bill. This past week the temps outside have been in the single figures here

I have a Masterspa Envision. I was told to use only Chlorine... and not Bromine Any difference between using the Tabs vs Granules? Right now I am using the Chlorine Santizer 4x week 1/2oz.

My wife and I spent about 4 months investigating different hot tubs. We visited show rooms, got reports, went to people's homes that had them, so overall I believed we had a good knowledge base on which models to chooice from and in what price range. We settled on the Masterspa Legacy Envision for its features, specifically the layout of the jets which is critical to my spinal problems, since the tub is basically being used for therapeutic reasons. We read about the different types of insulation, full, blown in, therompane, sheets, etc pros/cons of each. Seemed like different dealers had different views. Bottom line, it almost appears that without spending a lot more (ie > $8K) for a tub there are going to be some insulation concerns. Next came how to set it up and start to use it. Filling the 330 gallons with cold water and taking it up to 101 degrees was over 12 hours and at 50Amps and at .175 cents kwh that added up. Pluse because of some electrical problems and mis use of buttons, the entire unit had to be shut/started/shut/started 3 or 4 times. Of course, I was playing with settings/temperature until I settled on Standard Mode 102 degrees. I read so many posts about using Economy mode, the Electrical company themselves suggested keeping Standard mode and NOT playing around with the temp, keep it set and dont change it. The weather has been in the mid 20's and I am using the tub every night for about an hour, so I am enjoying it. assumptions: 1) Initial start electrical costs (bringing water up to temp, different settings ,etc) was a one time cost 2) Altering the settings daily increased electrical costs 3) Using the tub 7 days a week in 20 degree weather will increase cost Future: 1) Look to add some internal insulation (therompane?) 2) Adding a water blanket 3) Come warmer weather it should not cost as much Did we know everything we needed to know before hand? NO, We tried, we looked, we at least felt we were not blind going into the purchase. My view is its here now, how can it be optimzed... Thanks, there have been so many good ideas that have been shared on this site, I appreciate it

Thanks Nate, Up here, our Electrical rate is about $.17 per Kwh. So its a bit high. I forgot all about the time it took to go from 50 degrees to 100 degrees. That took me about 12-16 hours to reach. That had to be an added 'value' in this months bill. Just trying to rationalize how my next month's bill will not be as high

I would not wait. You need to insulate that spa better. Themopane insulation done right can work fine but I've seen a lot of people with your brand having the same issue (and others themopane brands as well). Do a search on this site and you'll find others in the same predicament talking about the methods they used to isualte teh psides and corners. Thanks I am looking into articles about Themopane insulation What are your feelings about those water blankets? Will they help? I've seen several calculators on this site for chemicals, does anyone have something for energy consumption?

Well, I got my first electric bill today! $502.... Thats $200 more than normal!!! went from 1760 kwh to 2909 in one month! Now, I know since this was my first month with the Legacy Envision I had some start up problems. Had to Start/Shutdown/Start/Shutdown several times Then it was playing with the different modes, Standard, Economy, FC... Then it was what temperature. First at 99, then at 100, then 101, 102...Probaby never let the machine stay in one setting for more than 3 days. So, now, I can not imagine that electric bill will be normal. Can the initial startup and changing settings frequently make that much a difference in electric? My dealer told me to expect between $40 and $60 as an average. Anyone living in the CT area, if you have any suggestions, I would love to hear ANY!

Do you have a bubble wrap material cover between the surface of the water and the cover, this may help by adding an addtional layer of insulation Am I hearing this right? You can put a layer of bubble wrap directly on the water surface of your hot tub? Wont the heat (100-103) and chemicals start to break down the plastics and leave some odor? Is there a special type of bubble wrap to do this? Heck, any idea to add another layer of insulation is always open for discussion

Chas, in the past 3 years I have had 6 Epidural injections (4 Thoracic and 2 Lumbar). The actual procedure is pretty straight forward and when done in the proper sterile environment it all goes quickly and you are out of the procedure in about 45 minutes (25 for the procedure itself, 15 or so in a recovery room, etc). The first 24 hours you can get some soreness, especially around the injection area. Then, the actual results of ESIs vary. The major objective of ESI's is to reduce inflammation around the injured disc area hoping to allow time for healing. Most doctors will admit that ESI's are not the cure all or given to eliminate the problem. In some milder cases, though it is enough to provide 'that' time of relief which is long enough to help the disc start to mend. There is tons of Information plus videos on ESI over on Spine-Health. For myself, 6 ESI, none of them did anything to make a differnece. Good luck

Mark, two of those things Heat and More blood circulation are two key items in reducing pain and aids towards healing. That works basically on the same principle of those medical therapy magnets. And yes, the Hot Tub, just lke the use of Tens Units, Acunpuncture and other conservative spinal treatments will NOT eliminate the pain, it provides pain relief , which in time can actually help correct the entire situation.

For the past week, my FCI level has been sitting at 0. I've been adding the chlorine sanitizer 1/2 to 1oz almost every other day to bring up this value. Last Friday, I added the weekly shock treatment and at my next reading the FCI went up to 3, which I've been told is the recommended value. What generally will cause the FCI value to be low? Should I be added more chlorine? I am using Spa Care Solutions chemicals

Chas, I can really sympathize with you! I know exactly what you are going through. Too bad there wasnt in easy way to get in and out of the tub, cause that would feel so good. Besides the normal conservative treatments, do you have access to any therapeutic pool? The rehab center I go to has a great pool (92 degrees) and its easy in/out and there are many patients pre-surgery and post-surgical spine problems. When you are sitting and I know it can't be for long periods of time, try moist heat on the lumbar area, it will just give you some temporary relief. If you want any details about the actual surgery, recovery period, what to expect, etc, please visit me at http://messageboard.spine-health.com/index.php , I know you have been there before. (Hope it was ok to mention another site, they are in the medical field, providing information to all, not selling any services)

Heat will not aggravate disc problems.. In fact most physical therapy or aqua therapy technicians will utilize heat therapy for patients with disc problems. Cold is used initially within the first 48 hours of a problem and also can be used after some strong exercise periods. The heat acts similar to magnet therapy where the main purpose is to get the blood vessels in the injured area moving rapidly. This can decrease some pain level while increasing recovery time. I'd be more than glad to go into more details about this... Send me an email or message. I dont know if others here want to have me go into details about spinal problems and how to recover from them.

Well, now we've hit a topic that I am close to an expert on. I have had 7 spinal (lumbar and cervical) surgeries over the past 30 years. I currently have another Lumbar disc that is herniated and 4 thoracic discs that are herniated. At this point, considering all the previous spinal disc surgeries, additional surgery is not being considered. Along with those problems, I have Spondy Grade 1.5, Severed Degenerative Disc Disease and Increasing severe Lateral Spinal Stenosis in the lumbar region. I currently go for Aqua Therapy 2 times a week for 2 hours each time in a theraputic pool heated to 92 degrees and I go weekly to a Thai Deep Tissue Massage therapist. I am on Oxycontin 20mg twice a day plus OxycodoneIR 5mg as needed. This has been ongoing nonstop for the past two years. So, my wife and I decided it was time to invest in a Hot tub. Its only been a week and half, but I go in every day and I feel wonderful while I am in the tub. I had researched so many tubs to find those with the right combination of jets for my spine. I do not do any stretching in the hot tub, because I get my aqua exercise as the Rehab Pool I pay for. But overall, warm water treatment is a definite plus for spinal problems. I moderate a large forum over at Spine-Health.com and have recommended Aqua therapy and Hot tubs to people for a while now. There is no question that you will see benefits in using the tub. But I do need to point it out, it will NOT correct any spinal disorder (as I described above), it will make it more comfortable. However, with muscular related back problems, the warm water CAN correct the situation.

My apologies. 20 yards, typo, not 200, no I am far from rich, but wish I was. The info on service techs came from a person who purchased one not to far away from here. Sorry, those were not my words. Masterspa, the service people are 3.4 miles away

To me besides the features of any piece of equipment, its the serviceability that is also so very important. When I buy a new washing machine, fridge, tractor, etc I always like to get hold of a service repair person to get their views on the product. I like their approach because most of the time their opinions would be unbiased and they do not have any ties to one particular brand. Now for Hot Tubs, are there any service personnel out there that can shed some light on: 1. Easiest Hot Tub to service 2. Which brand is the most reliable and requires less service 3. What part(s) of a Hot Tub are the ones generally that will need service 4. What action(s) can home owners take that will a) Increase the number of potential service calls Decrease the number of potential service calls 5, Is there a typical 'life span' of a Hot tub that is properly maintained. Appreciate any feedback

Hi Gary... My wife and I were considering purchasing a Hot tub from Costco about a month ago. I forget the model of Discovery it was, but it was on sale for $2,999.99 after a $500.00 discount. We researched the product and found out they were made by Keys Backyard. It appeared to be a decent tub, the only drawback about the tub from what I was reading is the lack of adequate insulation. A owner of one of these tubs (colder area similar to North East claimed to be spending $95 a month for electric gto keep the tub going. However, what finally deterred us from purchasing from Costco were: 1) Curbside delivery only. They would drop off the tub at the end of my driveway and then I would have to figure a way to move a 500 pound tub about 200 yards. 2) Service. While Costco would service the spa (through a contact) I was told that the wait would be long since there were no qualified service people for about 75 miles outside of Danbury, CT. Hope that helps We finally decided on a MasterSpa Legacy Envision

I recently purchased a MasterSpa Legacy Envision Hot Tub. My wife and I were doing research prior to purchasing this one and one of the factors was overall insulation. There was talk about full foam, vs foam panels vs insulating sheets. Several different dealers convinced us that the MasterSpa had a good amount of insulation. After seeing some specs and trying ot determine if a Rfactor is important, there seems to be so many people that are looking to add more insulation. I'd like to get a view on this ..... Will I really get better overall temperature control by adding more insulation? Do I risk overheating of the pumps/motor if I add more insulation? Has anyone gone through the exercise to add more? About 3 months ago, I was on another Hot tub forum (forgot the name) and they were talking about a Spa from Costco. I believe it made from KeyBackyard? There was a lot of discussions about the lack of insulation. One of the postes put together some pictures on how he added more I want to do the right thing and this forum and the people who provide technical details are really good I appreciate all the help

I am just new to Hot Tubs. I have a Masterspa Legacy Envision I am currently using the default Filtration cycle which is 2hours Do I know that its working? Heck no, I am still learning all the ins/outs of the tub, but from what I was told, the 2hour cycle is fine.

The FC level to start was 3, now its almost always 0-1. The santizer I am using is from the kit from my dealer, Spa Solutions. I was told that the MasterSpa Legacy Envision has an ozone generator, but I do not see it in the users manual. One week into my new spa, I am testing every other day: ph = 7.9 to 8.1 fc = 0-1 th = 380 Ah = 120 From the manual, it seems like I need to get the free cholrine up .. Not sure why it has dropped from the first two days. Temp is now set at 101 and the pumps are kicking in now to keep the temp level and when the filter cycle starts up. I am slowly getting the hang of it. So folks who have had spas for a while have told me they add all the chemicals at once (when needed), the manual indicates adding one at a time, waiting 15 minutes, etc. Does it really make a difference? Thanks for the help here

I was talking with my dealer this morning. He told me that in the area where live (Danbury, CT 75 miles north/east of NYC) that wit the CL&P electric billing rates, it would be more economical to keep the tub on Standard mode and at 100 or 101 degrees. He said dropping it to Economy Mode during the day and switching back up to SM or to get the temp back to 100/101 is going to send the electric meter spinning. I know in terms of pure house electric heat that is true. Keeping at one standard temperature all the time is more economical than raising/lowering the thermostat 5-10 degrees. I guess I never know until I get my first electric bill. But then again, I am not sure if that will be totally accurate. The first week of having my tub, I was playing around with the temperature, going from 98 to 103. Then with the switching in the filtering cycles, I wound up shutting the whole thing down twice and restarting from scratch. If there are others out there with a MasterSpa Legacy (or I guess most hot tubs) in the colder areas, but not frigid, what settings have you found to be most economical and at the same time provide you with the comfort you want when you go in the tub