Spa-pilot Experiences And/or Opinions

Chris W · December 22, 2007

I was looking at the Spa-Pilot today at the local pool store. I have the Autopilot digital on my pool and I am pleased with water quality and the ease of maintenence of my pool. Does any one know if the Spa-Pilot has a similar effect on Spas? And besides MPS, does anyone know what's in the power pouches and what's in their salt besides salt?

Chris W

lancef1 · April 2, 2008

I was looking at the Spa-Pilot today at the local pool store. I have the Autopilot digital on my pool and I am pleased with water quality and the ease of maintenence of my pool. Does any one know if the Spa-Pilot has a similar effect on Spas? And besides MPS, does anyone know what's in the power pouches and what's in their salt besides salt?
Chris W

I don't know if you got it yet but it will have a similar effect on spas. I have used a similar device since December 07 called the ColorCHlor which is similar with a few more features and cheaper. www.colorchlor.com

PS. you can also use it with stuff you can get at the grochery store.

Lance

Chris W · April 3, 2008

That's great information, no doubt that 2 competing products in the marketplace will make these units less expensive for everyone.

I did buy a Spa-Pilot and have been using it for the last few weeks. I know there were a few people on here who were interested in my experience and even though it's only been a few weeks, I can say that I'm quite pleased with my purchase so far. I'm basically using the Spa-Pilot to very consistently maintain a FC residual of 2.5-3.5 PPM. It took some tweaking to get the dial set in the right place. The instructions start

you out with a setting which is known to be too high, then you back it down a little at a time until it stabilizes where you want it.

It acts just like my SWCG in my pool, when it's turned up too high, it drives the pH up very slightly every day. I've got it adjusted now so that if I use about 1/2 tbsp of unbeffered KMPS before and after using the spa, it keeps the pH very stable :-)

Shortly after i installed it, we went to SoCal for about 4 days with the kids, and I came back to a perfectly clear spa. The FC was a little high (I was still tweaking it then.) and the pH had drifted from 7.5 up to about 7.7 over the course of the 4 days.

Now that I have it tweaked pretty well, I can comfortably go for a few days without testing, but the pool geek in me dosn't seem to let that happen very often :-)

So far, so good.

The best street price I found for the Spa-Pilot was within $5 of the online price of the ColorChlor, so they seem to be at the same price point so far. The ColorChlor calls for a higher salt level than the Spa-Pilot, but I run my spa at the upper end of the range called out in the spa-pilot manual. Most SWCGs seem to run better with a little more salt.

There's a few things in the ColorChlor manual that I wouldn't choose to do, but not because it woudn't work, just my preference.

If Tinybubbles is out there, the only stainless I have in my spa is on the Waterway handheld jet. So far, no signs of any ill effect from the salt. I really don't expect there will be, but I'll watch it since you asked :-)

Chris W

I was looking at the Spa-Pilot today at the local pool store. I have the Autopilot digital on my pool and I am pleased with water quality and the ease of maintenence of my pool. Does any one know if the Spa-Pilot has a similar effect on Spas? And besides MPS, does anyone know what's in the power pouches and what's in their salt besides salt?
Chris W

I don't know if you got it yet but it will have a similar effect on spas. I have used a similar device since December 07 called the ColorCHlor which is similar with a few more features and cheaper. www.colorchlor.com

PS. you can also use it with stuff you can get at the grochery store.

Lance

KeeperJones9 · May 26, 2008

I have not seen much on effects of salt on a hot tub. I notice at both the spa-pilot and colorchlor website they don't say anything, positive or negative, on the pottential effects. Any thoughts on this?

How do you guys like your salt water tubs?

iasky · June 6, 2008

I have not seen much on effects of salt on a hot tub. I notice at both the spa-pilot and colorchlor website they don't say anything, positive or negative, on the pottential effects. Any thoughts on this?
How do you guys like your salt water tubs?

Hi guys. Thought I would chime in here. I too was looking for a good solution to chlorination. I have a MasterSpa LSX, and I love it. I had a hip replacement and this spa is perfect. It has a different seat for each area or the body. Anyway, it requires chlorine and I hated adding it daily. My first week of ownership, I forgot a dose or two and my son and his girlfriend got a Staph skin infection...bad! So I moved to a floating tri-chlor method, which works great despite what other say, as long as you adjust your release perfectly and watch the pH carefully. I did this by using a permanent marker and marking on the floater the chlorine level at each small turn of the opening control. Bad new was that if you don't adjust your pH every few days, the acid from the tri-chlor increases and destroys your pillow and starts to work on the seals. That's where I read about salt chlorination. Did not want to spend a fortune on built in one, and was not sure if it would void my warranty so I had the choice of Spa-pilot, which require the constant addition of chlorine according to its manufacture! or a riskier move by going with the Colorchlor by a relatively unknown company. Well I selected Colorchor since it claimed no additional chorine was necessary. The review follows after two weeks of use.

Colorchlor Review:

1. Customer service 5/5 Fast delivery. Discounted web price. Free Shipping.

2. Ease of use 4.5/5 The directions are well written, but they engineered this product so well that you need to

read them carefully to understand how you can do so many things without a single button.

3. Engineering 5/5 This company is amazing. They thought of everything for example.

A. Reversed polarity to avoid calcium buildup on the electrodes

B. Automatic increase in chlorination after use. You do this by lifting the colorchlor out of the

water when you get in. When you lift it out, it lets you chose from 10 different light shows

which last for ten minutes after which it kicks up you chlorine output 2 notches for the next

four chlorination cycles.

C. Automatic temperature and salt detection.

The only thing missing is automatic chlorine detection, and if that were available, I'm sure they would have included it.

4. Function 5/5 Started working immediately and chlorine levels were detectible within 1 hour. Chlorine levels

were actually too high the next morning, so I decrease the chlorine output cycle a couple time

until they were perfect. They have remained there for two weeks so far.

Concluding remarks. I am a scientist and not affiliated with this company in any way. I wrote this review because I love the product so far and I love good engineering (You find so few examples of good engineering anymore!).

As for your original question. I have had no problems with the salt. You can barely detect its existence. I do not have metal on my spa, but if you do I would suggest adding zinc balls in the filter area to prevent corrosion. (This is how car and boat manufactures prevent corrosion). I have a stone patio surrounding my hot tub, and have not seen any salt marks whatsoever. None of my son's friends even noticed that I changed to salt water. The salt actually has a smooth feeling to it. Finally, I use latex bands to stretch my hips in the spa, and I noticed that these no longer stick to themselves when they are dry like they did before the salt.

The only small downside is that it does require a GFI circuit that if it trips will shut down your chlorination. This happened to me once during a rainstorm, so I need to relocate the outside box.

Hope this helps and happy hottubing!

Chris W · June 21, 2008

Sounds like the ColorChlor is working great! That's awesome.

I've been using the Spa-Pilot for about 4 months now, and I couldn't be happier. I'm getting ready to do my 1st water change at 4 months, and it would have gone longer had I not tried a little "Salt-Water Magic".....bad idea!! great for my pool, lousy for the spa. Foam, foam, and more foam. After a week or so it settled down a little, but the water quality was never quite the same.

Clarification: The Salt Water Magic Liquid causes foam. The liquid is enzymes +phosphate removers etc. I use the Salt Water Magic Startup in my Spa and it works great. As far as I can tell from the label, the startup has some CYA (monosodium cyanurate) and Borates (boric acid and sodium borate penthydrate.) The startup seems to stabilize the pH nicely.

I think the comment about adding chlorine daily with the Spa pilot was probably referring to the Power-Pouches that Autopilot uses with the Spa-Pilot. The Power pouches are primarily KMPS. Since they aren't available locally, I just use unbufferd KMPS which works well.

I really like the sounds of the ColorChlor logic as well. The cells appear to have plenty of capacity to handle the load, but the Spa-Pilot lacks the logic to "boost" after each use.

To answer and earlier question. After 4 months of use, there is no detectable effect on any of the stainless in the spa.

Still doing great with the Spa-Pilot, and testing about twice a week now.

The battle right now is keeping the tub cool in the 115 degree weather. Surprisingly, if I get the tub down to 100 at night, it will stay below 105 throughout the heat of the day. I guess the cover works the other way as well

Chris W

lancef1 · July 8, 2008

I have not seen much on effects of salt on a hot tub. I notice at both the spa-pilot and colorchlor website they don't say anything, positive or negative, on the pottential effects. Any thoughts on this?
How do you guys like your salt water tubs?

After several years of using salt, I have found no negative effects of using it. I have tried most of the "alternative" systems out there and have found chlorine generation to be the best alternative to using packaged chemicals. When people have issues, it usually boils down to improper water balance. Tri-Chlor and bromine tabs are very corrosive and lowers the pH and total alkalinity which leaves the water in a "corrosive" state. This erodes metals and makes plastics brittle.

Occasionally, I have found that improper grounding of the vessel can lead to electrolysis that will erode metals. The comment on this site about using zink balls is very effective in helping to prevent this problem. I have used them for years in pools with these kinds of problems. When using zink balls it is important to check them every month or 2 to see if they have a scale build up on them. If so, lightly acid wash them or soak them in vinegar to get the scale off or they will no longer be effective.

I have numerous customers using chlorine generation on their pools and hot tubs and they all love it. They tell me how nice it is even after several years of having it. The ColorChlor is my personal favorite for hot tubs because of the economy of use and some of its features but the Spa Pilot would also be a good choice. I would recommend that everyone with a tub get a chlorine generator. Look at both systems, compare their features and get the one that suits your needs. I know you will be impressed by the water quality chlorine generation offers as it will be better than any other system I've seen.

Hope this helps

Lance

1bad88 · August 14, 2008

Chris and Iasky,

How are your SWG systems working out? What are the lifetimes that you have been told these units will have in a spa?

Cheers!

J

1bad88 · August 18, 2008

Another quick question, what do salt water systems users do about CYA?

lancef1 · August 18, 2008

Another quick question, what do salt water systems users do about CYA?

If it is a spa or hot tub it is not a good idea to be used. (I can give further explanation if needed) For pools, you need to add it manually 1 or 2x a year. Does this answer your question? If not let me know

1bad88 · August 26, 2008

Bump...Is anyone out there?

beernut · August 29, 2008

Bump...Is anyone out there?

Well, I don't have a spa-pilot yet but I think that it is the answer to my spa maintenance concerns. After spending countless hours reading and re-reading post after post on this forum about water treatement, spending wakeless nights thinking about how copper/silver/aquafinesse are not primary sanitizers, about how chlorine is only a real problem when the FC gets too low and causes chloramines, about shocking (chlorine or MPS?) and using bleach, etc...... I have made an impulse decision and decided that a SWG (salt water generator like spa-pilot) is probably what I am looking for. It looks like once it is dialed in that one can just relax and test ph and FC and even miss several days and still be in fine shape. It is using one of the three primary sanitizers (chlorine, bromine, and biguanide) and automatically keeps the FC levels up without daily additions.

From this link it looks like corrosion with SWGs in pools is usually (always?) associated with very high FC levels and/or no use of CYA. Now in a spa we have much higher temps and presumably much faster reaction times so if there is going to be a problem we would experience its effects much faster than pool users.

The only other con's on that link relate to:

1) PH rise -- a con also related to using Dichlor then bleach.

2) Cost -- for me my time is more than worth the extra cost.

So corrosion is going to be the big issue.

I would add that I am also concerned about where I can drain the spa water out of a SWG spa? Is it safe to put on a lawn or garden? I am guessing that it isn't which is going to make dumping the spa water much more complicated for me.

The reasons I went with Spa-pilot over colorchlor are:

1) Spa-Pilot has analog dial to adjust rate while colorchlor is only adjustable in 10% increments (correct me if I am wrong). This seems to suggest that I can adjust the spa-pilot more precisely.

2) I didn't wan't the light show.

3) Spa-pilot suggests (and includes in the startup kit) the use of CYA which colorchlor doesn't (they suggest just adding plain salt). While the jury is still out about the importance of CYA in preventing corrosion my guess (supported by chem-geek Richards analysis) is that it is quite important. Thus, getting the startup with CYA in it was a bonus with the spa-pilot.

4) I found Spa-Pilot at a very slightly better price.

Note: neither require the use of any additional chlorine. There is some confusion in a previous post where the spa-pilot literature says to occasionaly shock (as all systems need) with MPS or chlorine shock. This applies to both the spa-pilot and the colorchlor however I guess that the colorchlor's dosage increase might help oxidize the contaminants I would still think that a non-chlorine shock is needed occasionally

My plan is to continue to use the "blue juice" copper based system that I got with the tub combined with the ozonator and spa-pilot. From my readings on this forum it seems that the fastest kill rates come from copper combined with chlorine and since I have the stuff I might as well use it. Combined with the ozonator I should be able to keep FC on the low side and still have good sanitation. My thinking is that if the spa isn't used for several days or more, with the spa-pilot set to generate low levels, I should have fewer problems with too high FC which *could* cause corrosion.

Anyway, in the great tradition of early-adopters taking the risk and absorbing the expense I am jumping in and am going to try the spa-pilot. I will try to remember to post any success/failure with the system. I imagine as with any other on-line forum we will most certainly hear of any failures but might not hear all the successes (they will be too busy enjoying their spa.

Mark

lancef1 · August 31, 2008

Bump...Is anyone out there?

Well, I don't have a spa-pilot yet but I think that it is the answer to my spa maintenance concerns. After spending countless hours reading and re-reading post after post on this forum about water treatement, spending wakeless nights thinking about how copper/silver/aquafinesse are not primary sanitizers, about how chlorine is only a real problem when the FC gets too low and causes chloramines, about shocking (chlorine or MPS?) and using bleach, etc...... I have made an impulse decision and decided that a SWG (salt water generator like spa-pilot) is probably what I am looking for. It looks like once it is dialed in that one can just relax and test ph and FC and even miss several days and still be in fine shape. It is using one of the three primary sanitizers (chlorine, bromine, and biguanide) and automatically keeps the FC levels up without daily additions.

From this link it looks like corrosion with SWGs in pools is usually (always?) associated with very high FC levels and/or no use of CYA. Now in a spa we have much higher temps and presumably much faster reaction times so if there is going to be a problem we would experience its effects much faster than pool users.

The only other con's on that link relate to:

1) PH rise -- a con also related to using Dichlor then bleach.

2) Cost -- for me my time is more than worth the extra cost.

So corrosion is going to be the big problem.

I would add that I am also concerned about where I can drain the spa water out of a SWG spa? Is it safe to put on a lawn or garden? I am guessing that it isn't which is going to make dumping the spa water much more complicated for me.

The reasons I went with Spa-pilot over colorchlor are:

1) Spa-Pilot has analog dial to adjust rate while colorchlor is only adjustable in 10% increments (correct me if I am wrong). This seems to suggest that I can adjust the spa-pilot more precisely.

2) I didn't wan't the light show.

3) Spa-pilot suggests (and includes in the startup kit) the use of CYA which colorchlor doesn't (they suggest just adding plain salt). While the jury is still out about the importance of CYA in preventing corrosion my guess (supported by chem-geek Richards analysis) is that it is quite important. Thus, getting the startup with CYA in it was a bonus with the spa-pilot.

4) I found Spa-Pilot at a very slightly better price.

Note: neither require the use of any additional chlorine. There is some confusion in a previous post where the spa-pilot literature says to occasionaly shock (as all systems need) with MPS or chlorine shock. This applies to both the spa-pilot and the colorchlor however I guess that the colorchlor's dosage increase might help oxidize the contaminants I would still think that a non-chlorine shock is needed occasionally

My plan is to continue to use the "blue juice" copper based system that I got with the tub combined with the ozonator and spa-pilot. From my readings on this forum it seems that the fastest kill rates come from copper combined with chlorine and since I have the stuff I might as well use it. Combined with the ozonator I should be able to keep FC on the low side and still have good sanitation. My thinking is that if the spa isn't used for several days or more, with the spa-pilot set to generate low levels, I should have fewer problems with too high FC which *could* cause corrosion.

Anyway, in the great tradition of early-adopters taking the risk and absorbing the expense I am jumping in and am going to try the spa-pilot. I will try to remember to post any success/failure with the system. I imagine as with any other on-line forum we will most certainly hear of any failures but might not hear all the successes (they will be too busy enjoying their spa.

Mark

The issue of corrosion continually comes up as a mystery and it really doesn’t have to be. Before chlorine generators arrived on the scene here in the US, we had regular old pools that had corrosion issues. Many of these pools & spas were treated with liquid chlorine and had high TDS levels. The reason for this is that high TDS levels increase the conductivity of the water letting stray currents to run through the water. Further investigation with sensitive instruments revealed that these bodies of water were not grounded properly. This was the cause of the corrosion. The only practical way to deal with this was to place zinc balls in the skimmers and inspect them monthly to make sure there was no scale buildup on them as this makes them ineffective and they will need to be acid washed so they will do their job which is to help neutralize the stray currents in the water. It takes such a small amount of current that most people would never even detect its presence. This problem is much easier to deal with in a hot tub as you can make sure it is properly grounded with minimal effort.

I know of several hot tubs that have been on chlorine generation for 3 years or more without any signs of corrosion whatsoever.

What about CYA? This can be a controversial subject but here is the reality. CYA is not recommended for spa use because it lowers the ability of the chlorine to oxidize. (ORP – Oxidation Reduction Potential) This can be witnessed in any pool or spa with an ORP controller. With a spa, the hot water will degrade the chlorine faster than sunlight and since I rarely ever see a hot tub that isn’t covered, why use it? CYA itself has a corrosive nature and the thought of it preventing corrosion is nothing more than folklore. If you use CYA in a spa, it will take more chlorine to keep it sanitized. Very high levels of chlorine will cause corrosion.

Here are some excerpts from the Pennsylvania Department of Health which is in agreement with most other state agencies.

8. What are the effects of higher levels of cyanuric acid? – As the level of cyanuric acid rises, the “killing power” of the free chlorine residual weakens. At above 50 ppm of cyanuric acid, the time it takes to kill bacteria in the water is much longer compared to swimming pool water without cyanuric acid. As the level of cyanuric acid builds up, the chlorine will become increasingly less effective in keeping the water clean and problems such as increased cloudiness in the pool water, high bacterial test results, and even algae growth can occur.

9. Should cyanuric acid be used in hot tubs or spas? – At even moderate levels of cyanuric acid, the amount of time it takes chlorine to kill pseudomonas aeruginosa (the bacteria that causes “hot tub itch”) can be as much as a hundred times as long as in a hot tub or spa without cyanuric acid. For this reason, the Pennsylvania Department of Health does not recommend the use of cyanuric acid or stabilized chlorine in any hot tubs or spas

This is why hot tubs treated with dichlor or trichlor have to be dumped on a regular basis. As the CYA buildup occurs, it becomes impossible for the chlorine to do its job. This same effect will also happen with bromine tablets as the BCDMH found in the tablets have the same effect on bromine as CYA has on chlorine. This is why when you start with fresh water the first month is generally less trouble to maintain water quality and then it goes downhill from there.

As far as the pH is concerned, it is far better to have a sanitizer that increases the pH than one that lowers it. Dichlor and trichlor will lower your pH with trichlor doing so much more aggressively which will then lower total alkalinity and cause the water balance to become aggressive which will definitely destroy things.

Where to drain your tub? I would suggest running a hose to the street or into a toilet. Get an inexpensive sump pump that hooks up to a garden hose and be done with it. It works much better than the drain on the hot tub.

Copper and silver? They were a big hit in the 80’s on swimming pools but proved to be an expensive gimmick that is not very effective. Save your money.

Chlorine generation has been the most effective way to treat pools and spas that I have seen in almost 24 years. Whether you get a Spa Pilot or ColorChlor will definitely increase your water quality. Spa pilot will cost more to operate because of the power pouches needed because it has no boost mode feature. The last I checked, the warranty also states that if you don’t use the power pouches, your warranty will be voided.

The ColorChlor allows you to not use the light show but it’s there if you want it. I have not experienced any difficulty being able to dial in the ColorChlor and it is harder to accidentally change the output level.

Because of the boost feature on the ColorChlor, I have seen people go months without using any shock. There are a couple of people I know that have extremely high bather loads and will use a chlorine free shock and have no issues. If you have a good ozone system, it will effectively oxidize impurities and is very complimentary to chlorine generation. Whatever system you decide to use will improve you hot tubbing experience. It is important to try and keep it simple so you can enjoy your hot tub and not be a slave to it.

lancef1 · September 2, 2008