beernut

Well, this is a very heavily read thread so I thought I'd keep posting my experiences with the SpaPilot. I am 4 weeks into using it and have learned a few more things about it. #1 The use of MPS or their pouches is absolutely mandatory! The SpaPilot (and I would assume the colorchlor) produce sufficient chlorine to sanitize very well but are not up to the job of oxidizing all the waste (sweat, etc...) that ends up in the tub during use. I didn't use the tub for about 4 days and didn't know that we were not adding the MPS after soaking during that time. The water went from the absolutely crystal clear we have been maintaining to slightly hazy and the FC levels dropped to zero. The SpaPilot's chlorine was going directly into trying to oxidize the waste and simply couldn't keep up. A quick super chlorination and everything was back to normal. I imagine that one could calculate how much bleach to add after each soak to acheive the same effect but the MPS works great. #2 The salt in the water makes the spa edge look noticably spotty (the water evaporates and leaves the salt behind) but so far it doesn't bug me that much. #3 Neither ColorChlor nor SpaPilot's manuals are very helpful in figuring out how much salt to add if the levels have dropped due to splashout (I have some crazy kids who splash water out of the tub like orcas). The formula is basically 1# of salt in 100 Gal of water raises the salt level 1250 ppm. The colorchlor manual has a good formula for additions but then has a table right below it that doesn't fit the formula. Hmm... The formula matches my other research but the table is way off. The SpaPilot manual only tells you how much SpaPilot Starter Blend needs to be added. Since that has additives in addition to salt it is not helpful if you just want to add some salt to get the level back up. #4 Knowing the formula for how much a Tbsp of bleach raises your chlorine PPM is very helpful when the tub has seen more use than normal. Much easier to hit the tub with a Tbsp or so of bleach than fiddle with the normally perfectly set SpaPilot. A Tbsp of regular Clorox Bleach raises a 100 Gal Tub 2.4 ppm. So in my 350 gal tub each Tbsp gives me about .7ppm of chlorine. #5 I much prefer using the taylor salt test kit than the test strips. Probably don't need to be that accurate but I feel better using it. The cost is pretty close per test anyways. #6 When you have everything set correctly you really can just relax and enjoy. Testing every few days was more than enough since the sanitizer levels were always nearly perfect and my ph didn't drift nearly at all. So far I am still very happy with the SpaPilot and would still recommend it to others. Mark Alston

Hmm, seemed like input on users experiences with the Spa-Pilot was your main question and the question about CYA was an "also." In any event, CYA is not created or used up by a SWG. SWGers take salt and break out the chlorine basically. Spa-Pilot recommends having a CYA level of 50 and colorchlor doesn't suggest the need for any. There is a suggestion that having no CYA *could* help contribute to corrosion but each case where that occured also had very high FC levels (usually because the owner left the SWG on 100% and forgot about it). According to the Spa-Pilot manual CYA is only needed in outdoor uncovered spas but since other benefits of CYA are found all over this forum and also due to the potential protection from corrosion it seems best to have a CYA level of at least 20 and up to about 50 with the Spa-Pilot. The Spa-Pilot startup salt has CYA in it to bring a spa 400 gal or less to about that level. Mark

Well, I am about 3 days into using my Spa-Pilot and so far am quite happy. From reading the manuals on both the Spa-Pilot and the Colorchlor I noticed a difference that has me curious though. The Spa-Pilot suggests a 2000ppm salt level while the colorchlor suggests a 3000ppm level. Any reason for the difference? Different generators needing different levels perhaps? I must say that I am liking the levels I am at for the Spa-Pilot (I hate the test strips though) and the water is VERY slightly salty tasting. It also feels slighly softer/nicer. It is definately less salty than the sweat off your face. I imagine that the 50% more salty colorchlor water would probably be quite noticable. Mark

Perhaps you could read down the forum about a page and check out this thread. Also, searching is your friend on this and any other forum. Mark

Well, I don't have a spa-pilot yet but I think that it is the answer to my spa maintenance concerns. After spending countless hours reading and re-reading post after post on this forum about water treatement, spending wakeless nights thinking about how copper/silver/aquafinesse are not primary sanitizers, about how chlorine is only a real problem when the FC gets too low and causes chloramines, about shocking (chlorine or MPS?) and using bleach, etc...... I have made an impulse decision and decided that a SWG (salt water generator like spa-pilot) is probably what I am looking for. It looks like once it is dialed in that one can just relax and test ph and FC and even miss several days and still be in fine shape. It is using one of the three primary sanitizers (chlorine, bromine, and biguanide) and automatically keeps the FC levels up without daily additions. From this link it looks like corrosion with SWGs in pools is usually (always?) associated with very high FC levels and/or no use of CYA. Now in a spa we have much higher temps and presumably much faster reaction times so if there is going to be a problem we would experience its effects much faster than pool users. The only other con's on that link relate to: 1) PH rise -- a con also related to using Dichlor then bleach. 2) Cost -- for me my time is more than worth the extra cost. So corrosion is going to be the big issue. I would add that I am also concerned about where I can drain the spa water out of a SWG spa? Is it safe to put on a lawn or garden? I am guessing that it isn't which is going to make dumping the spa water much more complicated for me. The reasons I went with Spa-pilot over colorchlor are: 1) Spa-Pilot has analog dial to adjust rate while colorchlor is only adjustable in 10% increments (correct me if I am wrong). This seems to suggest that I can adjust the spa-pilot more precisely. 2) I didn't wan't the light show. 3) Spa-pilot suggests (and includes in the startup kit) the use of CYA which colorchlor doesn't (they suggest just adding plain salt). While the jury is still out about the importance of CYA in preventing corrosion my guess (supported by chem-geek Richards analysis) is that it is quite important. Thus, getting the startup with CYA in it was a bonus with the spa-pilot. 4) I found Spa-Pilot at a very slightly better price. Note: neither require the use of any additional chlorine. There is some confusion in a previous post where the spa-pilot literature says to occasionaly shock (as all systems need) with MPS or chlorine shock. This applies to both the spa-pilot and the colorchlor however I guess that the colorchlor's dosage increase might help oxidize the contaminants I would still think that a non-chlorine shock is needed occasionally My plan is to continue to use the "blue juice" copper based system that I got with the tub combined with the ozonator and spa-pilot. From my readings on this forum it seems that the fastest kill rates come from copper combined with chlorine and since I have the stuff I might as well use it. Combined with the ozonator I should be able to keep FC on the low side and still have good sanitation. My thinking is that if the spa isn't used for several days or more, with the spa-pilot set to generate low levels, I should have fewer problems with too high FC which *could* cause corrosion. Anyway, in the great tradition of early-adopters taking the risk and absorbing the expense I am jumping in and am going to try the spa-pilot. I will try to remember to post any success/failure with the system. I imagine as with any other on-line forum we will most certainly hear of any failures but might not hear all the successes (they will be too busy enjoying their spa. Mark

On second thought, would a bigger hit of dichlor (say 1Tbsp or so for 350gal) after each soak with the jets on high and the cover off for 20-30min be an even better idea. Mark

Ok, so for those of us who know that we will become one of those who lets the sanitizer level drop and who won't (for whatever reasons) be testing their water daily if even weekly, can aquafinesse be a "insurance policy" if supplimented with something else? Basically what I am interested in is what is a decent procedure for those of us for whom the chemical costs are a non-issue but time dedicated to testing/checking is. From my limited research here is a plan that I have developed (but have not yet implimented). Use aquafinesse in conjunction with an ozonator and a copper ion sanitizer (the one I have now is called blue juice but they all seem very similar). The chlorine tablet in the filter area (apparently included with the kits) should keep the residual chorine level to about 1-2 ppm. I would also "dope" after usage with a tsp of chlorine. In my limited understanding the ozone and copper combined with the aquafinesse would keep everthing inorder between uses and the chlorine dope would kill off everying added during the soak. Although I guess that this might work even without the aquafinesse. Any thoughts or ideas for those of us who will not test daily? Mark

Not that I have used aquafinesse (I am very interested in it though) but this thread seems to indicate that 8.0ish is normal for ph using aquafinesse. Mark