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waterbear

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Everything posted by waterbear

  1. Nothing new. It't just a colorimeter for reading the colors of the test. LaMotte (and Palintest and Hach) have had colorimeters for pool water testing for a long time now. The expensive ones work well. Teh inexpensive ones I have seen have been dreadful! I will wait and see how this one is and how much it costs. With test equipment like this it really is a case of "You get what you pay for". I am not very impressed with LaMotte's Tracer and Pocket tester line. They do not keep calibaration very long. The Lamotte Waterlab and Waterlink testers are excellent but very expensive. I will wait and see but I am not holding my breath! I use the Waterlink at work for water testing, btw, but use Taylor kits at home (can't afford the waterlink!) and I have compared my test results on my own pool ans spa. The waterlink and the Taylor give me practially identical results!
  2. IMHO, it is a NECESSARY CHEMICAL in ANY pool or hot tub. Personally I love the stuff. I even put it into my bathtub! ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Try this link for a discussion of DHMO that happened on another pool forum for some insight!
  3. You can buy them at any pool supply store. Sodium bisulfate is commonly labeled pH minus or pH down or pH - or pH reducer depending on the brand. It is actually easier to find than dichlor and can even be found in the pool departents of Walmart, Kmart, Home Depot, Lowes, and Ace Hardware! Many of these chains also carry dichlor. It is a fairly common form of stabilized chlorine.
  4. One of the main purposes of a filter is to trap orgainic debris. Some of this will start to decay in the filter. It collects such things as body oils, lotions, etc. Your water may have been sanitary in that it had enough residual sanitizer to take care of any pathogens introduced into it but I doubt your filter was.
  5. There is not a test for bromates that I am aware of. Notice that I said they are a suspected carcinogen in drinking water. Just do regular drains and refills every 3-4 months and start over. There are a lot of people that use bromine and ozonators and the combiation is, IMHO, easier than using an ozonator with chlorine. Just one of the downsides of using ozone that is not really talked about. Every form of sanitation has it's pluses and minuses. Personally, if it were my spa I would not lose any sleep over it!
  6. A 3-step bromine sytems is going to require the less frequent maintenance than a chlorine system. This means: 1)adding sodium bromide to your water on each refill 2) "shocking" to activate the bromide reserve in the water into your active sanitizer, hypobromus acid. 3) putting in a floater with bromine tabs to maintain a bromine level of 4-6 ppm 4) shocking it weekly to raise the bromine level above 10 ppm. wait until the level drops below 10 ppm before entering spa. IMHO, ordinary chlorine bleach (the unscented kind) is the best thing for shocking. The chlorine will be converted into bromine sanitizer by the bromide reserve in your water from step 1. I would suggest a GOOD test kit. For bromine I recommend the Taylor K-2106. Your ozone will help keep your bromine level constant since it is going to be shocking (or oxidizing) the bromide into hypobromous acid. However, ozone can cause bromates to form in your water. Bromates are a suspected carcinogen in drinking water.
  7. I've said it before and I will say it again. TSP (the real stuff, not the substitute that is the only thing legally available in many states now because of the phosphate ban) or powdered autmatic dishwasher detergent like Electrosol or Cascade (I use the generic stuff from Kmart) is the best dereaser for soaking your filters. Unicel, which is one of the largest manufacturers of OEM and replacement filters seems to agree if you visit the link to their website that was posted above. Most propriatey acid filter cleaners are based on phosphoric acid (usually listed as organic acids in the MSDS)and degreasers. They work well when used according to directions but they can be expensive. A few more observations: DO NOT ACID WASH unless you have degreased first and only do it if there are scale deposites on the filter, as Dr. Spa just stated. Acid washing causes the Remay Polyester material that makes up the pleats to stretch and lowers it's filtering ability. If you acid wash before degreasing you will harden the orgainics on the filter into a cement like mass that will ruin it by plugging it up. A lot of people are suggesting using a pressure washer. Not a good idea. The high pressure can acually cause the integrety of re Remay Polyester to fail and can literally rip a hole in the filter. A high pressure garden nozzle (those short brass ones) is your safest bet. There are some special filter cleaning nozzles and wands now available that just attach to your garden hose. I have tried a few, they work, they can make the job a bit easier and faster, but they really are not necessary. When I got my first portable spa many years ago the dealer told me to put the cart in the dishwasher once a month with no detergent after hosing it off or soaking it. I never did. Just didn't like the idea of cleaning out that gunk where I clean my dishes. Same dealer is the one who told me to use laundry bleach to shock my bromine spa so I guess he did know what he was talking about.
  8. If you are going to use chlorine this is what you will need: A Taylor K-2006 test kit dichlor (use initially for the first shock and the first 2 times to a week then stop. This will bring your CYA levels up a bit. You don't want the CYA above 30 ppm. 20 ppm is probably better but is next to impossibe to test that low a level) Liquid bleach (your main source of chorine after the first week of dichlor) Baking soda (to increase total alkalinity--this is exactly the same thing your dealer sells you as total alkalinity increaser) Sodium bisulfate (dry acid, pH decreaser--this is what you use to lower pH when too high) Borax (the 20 mule team stuff in the green box in the laundry aisle in the grocery store. This is sodium tetraborate and is used to raise your pH without affecting your total alkalinity. It works much better at this than the soda ash that is commonly sold as pH increaser. It is used in spas in a concentration of 30-50 ppm as a water 'enchancer' under such trade names as Proteam's Gentle Spa, btw! When used in this way it acts as an algaestat and pH buffer.) For a 350 gal spa one cup of regular or ultra bleach will get you into shock level and 3 oz (6 tablesppons) wil raise your FC by about 4 ppm. Test your levels after adding and that way you can make any adjustments to your dosing. The amounts I am giving your are ballpark (but faily close). Testing is the key to figure out how much to use for your spa. I would recommend testing daily for the first few weeks until you learn how much and how ofthen you need to add chlorine to maintain a 3-6 ppm range. Your shock level should be about 10.12 ppm. Don't go back into the spa until the chlorine had dropped below 10 ppm after shocking. Bromine is a bit different. For bromine you don't need the dichlor and the test kit you want will be a Taylor K-2106. You will also need sodium bromide added to the water on each refill (so your shock can produce the bromine sanitizer) and might want to use bromine tabs in a floater to help maintain the levels. Tabs by themselves are too slow dissolving to maintain a bromine sanitizer level at first which is why the sodium bromide is necessary. Bleach is also your best shock. The chlorine is converted into the active bromine sanitizer, hypobromous acid. In fact, bromine tabs contain chlorine as part of their makeup for this reason! If you don't want to use bleach you can use MPS (non chlorine shock) to do the same but it is more expensive and adds sulfates to the water and causes the pH to drop. In either case you should drain and refill about every 3-4 months.
  9. If you acid wash a filter before you remove the organics from it you will cause them to harden into a cement like substance and that will effectively ruin the filter. Real TSP (which is not available in many states such as Florida because of the phosphate ban) or automatic dishwasher detergent (which is mostly TSP--they haven't found a good substitute for it in this application) is the best thing to soak them in to remove organics. 1 cup of REAL TSP or automatic dishwasher detergent like Cascade or Electrosol to every 5 gallons of water and soak overnight. If there are any calcium deposits after soaking then you can acid wash to remove them but acid washing tends to shorten the life of the polyester material that most carts are made of. Unicel, which is one of the largest manufacturers of OEM and replacement filters recommends this on their website. This only applies if you are using chlorine or bromine. If you are using biguanide (Baqua, SoftSoak, Revacil, etc.) then you need to use one of the proprietary cleaners compatible with this sanitizer.
  10. Some clarification on the misinformation above: Baking soda is sodium bicarbonate----this is used to raise total alkalinity NOT pH! While it is true that it will cause a temporary increase in pH when added it does so by raising the total alkalinity! 8 oz of baking soda in a 500 gallon spa will raise your total alkalinity about 80 ppm!!!!!!!! Soda ash is sodium carbonate, also known as washing soda found in the laundry aise of your grocery store. This will raise pH but will also raise total alkalinity. THIS IS NOT THE SAME CHEMICAL AS BAKING SODA! Borax (sodium tetraborate), also found in the laundry aisle of your grocery store, will raise pH with minimal effect on total alkalinity and if you maintan a 30-50 ppm borate level in the water will also act as an algaestat and will reduce sanitizer demand. This is the indredient in such products as Proteam's Supreme and Gentle Spa and in Bioguard's Optimzer. White vinegar is a 5% solution of acetic acid. It is what is known chemically as a 'weak acid' and is not effective at lowering the pH of your spa! To do so you need a chemically 'strong acid' such as sodium bisulfate (forms sulfuric acid when dissolved) or muriatic acid (very difficult to dose in the small amount of water used in a spa.) Sodium bisulfate would be my first choice. It is what is commonly called "Dry Acid, pH increaser, pH Plus, etc. (Weak acids vs. strong acids have to do with what is known as the dissociation of the acid in water. Acids are simply substances that contribute hydrogen ions. Strong acids do this very well. Weak acids do not.)
  11. When you filled your tub did you add sodium bromide to the water? If you didn't and you are relying on only the tablets in the foater then you don't have a bromine system...at least not yet. 'The tablets are slow dissolving and it can literally take weeks before they dissolve enough to establish a bromine reserve in the water. In the meantime what your strips are measureing are the chlorine/mps in your water and ozone will deplete these. If you have added the sodium bromide then I would suggest just openeing the floater bit by bit until you are maintaining the level of bromine you want (I like 4-6 ppm). Every time you add shock to the water you will be raising your brormine levels very high....that is what shock does! Adjust the floater without adding more shock. Give the water some time to adjust...wait at least 24 hours before retesting. If you can find it get the biggest bottle of "New Spa owner Patience in a Bottle" that you can find and apply it liberally to yourself! As far as the ALK goes....stop trying to test and ajust it with strips, let them 'fly into the garbage'...it's the best place for them, IMHO...Invest in a decent drop based kit and you will find that a lot of your water testing problems will disappear. For bromine I recommend the Taylor K-2106 FAS-DPD complete.. It has every test you need. As far as the price... You just spent literally thousands on your spa...is $60-$75 really a lot to spend on a GOOD test kit? You will find that your ALK (and pH) will most likely be going down in the spa because of the acidic nature of the bromine tabs, MPS shock if you are using it, and the body oils and secretions from your bather load. Just a fact of life. You will soon learn how to adjust it. BTW, alkalinity increaser is sodium bicarbonate...I don't care who's brand it is...it's stll just sodium bicarbonate....I don't care if the label says it's sodium hydrogen carbonate, that is just another name for sodium bicarbonate....Sodium bicarbonate can be found in any grocery store under the name of BAKING SODA (and usually in a purer form!) Also, chlorine is, IMHO, the best shock for a bromine pool and the best form to use is liquid. I won't go into all the technical reasons for time and space considerations but the easiest source of liquid chlorine for shocking is plain, unscented laundry bleach. 3/4 cup of ultra (6%) or 1 cup of regular (5.25%) is more than enougth to shock a 300 gal spa on bromine...You should only need to shock about once a week, perhaps a bit less with your ozonator!
  12. actually, the other 90% is just water and salt and bit bit of sodium hydroxide left over from the manufacture of the sodium hypochlorite (which helps keep the chlorine from gassing off), exaxtly the same as pool chlorine except for the conentration. When you say that Dichlor is 60 to 80 per cent chlorine (it's actually 56%) that is the free available chlorine. Each measure of dichlor you use is actually about 1/2 CYA (the 'buffer' you speak of) by weight. CYA (cyanuric acid) is by no mean innocuous, as the level increases in the water the sanitizing ablility of the chlorine goes down since it combines with the chlorine to form chlorinated isocyanurates. In fact, several states public health departments are now saying that dichlor should NOT be used in spas at all but only unstabilized chlorine be used. This would be calcium hypochlorite (cal hypo--will raise pH and calcium hardness--this can lead to scale formation), lithium hypochlorite (expen$ive to use), or sodium hypochlorite (liquid chlorine or bleach). As far as the dosing of bleach vs. dichlor---for a 250 gallon spa 1 tablespoon of ultra (6%) bleach or 1/2 teaspoon of dichlor will raise the water about 1 ppm so your average dose for your average 300 gal spa would be just undert 1//4 cup bleach or 2 teaspoons dichlor. With continused use the dichlor will become a less effective sanitizer due to the build up of CYA in the water. If the spa is exposed to sunlight then, IMHO, a level of maybe 20 ppm CYA would be ideal so I would use dichlor for santizing until I reached that level (the lowest level that can be tested with a melamine precipitation test for CYA) and then switch to bleach. I would use only bleach for shocking since using stabiilized chlorine for shocking is not a good idea in either a pool or a spa for the abovementioned problem of CYA buildup in the water! To effectively shock our 'average 300 gallon spa' with bleach we would need between 3/4 and 1 cup of ultra (6%) or 1 to 1 1/4 cup of regular (5.25%) bleach. If you want to use 'pool store 12.5% liquid chlorine' then just use half of the ultra beach dosages. It's really the most ecomonical way to chlorinate and it has the lease impact on pH and total alkalinity. Dichlor is mildly acidic and will cause pH and TA to drop by increasing the outgassing of carbon dioxide from the water. Outgassing of CO2 is always a problem in spas because of the aeration from the jets and bubblers. Hope this clears up some misconceptions.
  13. In a bromine system you do not worry about bromamines since they are considered to be effective sanitizers (unlike chloramines). Also, unless there is NOT a 30 ppm level of bromide in the water (which is easily achieved in a bromine system by ALWAYS adding the sodium bromide on each refill) then any chlorine added will convert to bromine sanitizer and if any bromamines form it's not a big deal. In fact, in a bromine system the Taylor FAS-DPD test for bromine (such as in the Taylor K-2105 kit) and all other test kits I have ever seen, including strips, only tests for TOTAL bromine for this reason. Bottom line, although chlorine and bromine are similar in some ways there are major differences in how the two systems are used and tested (and what is a major problem with one [chloramines] becomes moot in the other[bromamines]). Also, bromine is a known sensitizer and does commonly cause a rash in some people. (What else is in the product that 'contains MPS' that you are allergic to? Are you sure you are not allergic to the bromine itself?) You can try using only chlorine for "shocking" on your next refill to see if it eliminates the problem. That way you know if your rash is caused by the MPS or the bromine! IF it's from the bromine then I would suggest switching to chlorine for sanitizing. I would use biguanide only as a last resort as my choice of sanitizer if there were also problems with chlorine.
  14. And correct information speaks louder than misinformation. You might not feel the need to 'right a water chemistry master piece' (sic) but it might be useful to at least write the correct terms and make some attempt to find a spelling that is close to the proper English so people can understand what you are talking about. You might have some valuable into to impart but your credibility is destroyed by using made up words or throwing out terms in the wrong context. Also, your reference to TDS causing a salt cell to foul with calcium is not quite the case. First, ALL salt pools will have an extremely high TDS because of the amount of salt dissolved in the water and, second, it is a high calcium hardness combined with allowing the pH to rise by not montoring pH and keeping it in line that will cause the cell to foul. Yes, salt systems do require some maintenance on a regular basis to keep them running properly but isn't that also true of other pool equiemment such as filters, automatic cleaners, etc.? As far as pool store chlorine being better or purer than bleach.....The main objection to bleach is that it will raise TDS by adding salt. So will pool store chlorine. In fact the 6% pool store chlorine and the 6% ultra bleach are identical. When I refer to bleach I am referreing to plain, unscented laundry bleach without additives. It is intersting that now, with the rise in popularity of salt water systems that there is suddenly a variety of "pool salts" becoming available. (I am not referring to the propriatary mixes that also might contain stabilizer, borates, etc. being put out by at least 2 different companies now but the plain old soidum chloride type of salt). These 'Pool Salts' are usually close to twice the price of solar salt, have the same purity, and may have a smaller crystal size so they dissolve slightly faster. The impression beign given is that these are the only thing that should be used in a SWG because they are pure! ( Actually, water softener pellest are ususally the purest at 99.8% while the pool salts and solar salts are 99.5% pure.) I save my customers money by recommending using regular solar salt and I use the same in my pool, even thought we do stock "pool salt". This is also what the majority of SWG manufacturer's recommend, water softener or solar salt with a purity of at least 99.5%.. Once again chemical manufacturer's and pool stores are trying to give the impression that the speciality product is different from the one they can get just about anywhere. This is very similar to liquid chlorine vs. laundery bleach except that now we ARE dealing with exactly the same thing except for the price and where it is sold (or is that who is making the profits on the sale?)
  15. It is posible that iron in your water has reacted with the peroxide shock and caused the yellow coloration to the water. Have your water tested for metals. Iron is very commen in many areas, especially when well water is used. pH rise in a spa is a normal occurance. It is caused by the constant aeration of the water by the jets and bubblers causing the carbon dioxide in the water (part of the carbonate/bicarbonate/carbonic acid buffer system we call Total Alkalinity) to gas off into the air. You probably are also finding that your TA is slowly lowering also.
  16. It's not that the strips are not accurate (they are if used properly), they are not precise. Accurate means that they prodoce the same results for the same test conditions. Precision is how small a measurement they can make. For example, let's look at a drop based kit for Total Alkalinit. I will use the Taylor K-2000 series as an example. They use a titration test with a color change from green to red so the endpoint is easy to read. Each drop used represents 10 ppm of total alkalinity so if you get a reading of 100 ppm total alkalinity it is accurate to +/- 10 ppm. On the LaMotte InstaTEST 6, LaMotte InstatTEST 6 and Aquachek Select the graduations on the color scale are 40 ppm apart. In reality this is +/- 40 ppm and the colors can change (get lighter) if you let water fall off the strips and do not hold them horizontally (a particular problem with the LaMotte strips I have used) so that decreases both your precision and accuracy. pH is even worse.Both the LaMotte 6 and the Aquacheck jump from a pH of 7.2 to 7.8 on their scale and the colors are very close and very difficult to determin. The compartor used in the Taylor kit goes from 7.0 to 8.0 in .2 increments and the color changes are much easier to read and compare, making it easy to get precise pH measurements! The chlorine test on the strips can bleach out and give a lower reading if not read in the correct time span or continue to darken and give a higher reading, depending on the reagent chemistry used (this is not brand specific, LaMotte uses different chlorine test reagents on the InstaTEST 5 and InstaTEST 6 and Aquacheck uses different reagents than LaMotte 6 for the chlorine tests.) None of these strips will read above 10 ppm and the color scale is graduated in large increments. The FAS-DPD chlorine (or bromine) test in the Taylor K-2006 (K-2106 for bromine) is a titration test. You count the number of drops that cause the test sample to change from pink to colorless. It is an easy test to read and it is accurate to .2 ppm (.5 ppm for bromine) and can work with sanitizer levels up to around 50 ppm (important if you are shocking the water or trying to kill algae!). Strip do have a place. They are fine for a quick daily water check to see if your water is within range but they are not sufficient for making changes to your water balance! If you use strips for this purpose ( I do) but haul out the big test kit if the strips show anything is not OK and use the big kit once a week for full water testing the strips can be a real timesaver! Also, if you do this you will soon learn which of the tests on the strips are giving yoo valuable info (the chlorine/bromine tests are pretty close, usually, and let you know if you sanitizer is in the ballpark or not) and which are just not really worthwhile (pH is a prime example of this. Unless the pH is REALLY out of range the colors are just too close together so you only have a gestimate that your pH is ok or out of whack!) Hope this explains the difference and is helpful to you.
  17. This kit has the DPD test for free and total chlorine (same as the K-2005), not the FAS-DPD test in the K-2006. It has the same total alkalinity test as the K-2005 but uses the R-0014 pH indicator and only has an acid demand test (no base demand) and the small comparator tube instead of the R-0004 pH indicator and large comparator tube found with both acid and base demand as in the K-2005 and K-2006. It does not have tests for stabilizer (cyanuric acid) or calcium hardness but these can be added as separate modules making the kit the same functionally as the K-2005. It has a list price of $18.75 on the Taylor website
  18. If you are going to use chlorine then I would recommend a Taylor K-2006 test kit and for bromine a K-2106. Both these kits use the FAS-DPD test for chlorine or bromine, which is the most accurate test out there (down to .2 ppm for chlorine or .5 ppm for bromine) and can read up to around 50 ppm since it is a titration test (similar to the tests for total alkalinity and calcium hardness); and is the easiest one to read, with a color change from pink to colorless so the titration endpont is distinct! The kits and replacement reagents are available from many dealers, online retailers and directly from Taylor Technolgies! There are other good kits out there but, IMHO, non come close to the Taylor kits for price, accuracy, and ease of use. They are not the cheapest kits out there (the K-2006 is around $60) but when you consider how many thousands your spa cost you it really isn't a lot of money to spend on what is probably the MOST important tool you need to keep your water in good condition!
  19. I know you are a newbie so I am going to simplify the answer for you. As to what you put in the pool (which is about 3000 gallons, BTW--acutally 2986 gallons if you have 3 feet of water in it, and would be just under 2500 gallons with 2.5 feet of water--2488 gallons, but calling it 3000 or 2500 is close enough for government work ) : Liquid shock is another name for liquid chlorine, It comes in different strengths but even if it is the weak 6% (which by the way is EXACTLY the same thing as unscented ultra strength laundry bleach--sodium hypochlorite solution, 6%) you had a free chlorine level of about 3 ppm (actually if you had a full 3000 gallons of water in the pool your free chlorine should have been about 2.5 ppm)....which is excellent. However, since the chlorine is unstabilized and there is no stabilizer in the water you chlorine will get burned off by the sun very quickly. Next, you put in an alkalinity increaser. A big secret that most pool stores don't want you to know is that alkalinity increaser is sodium bicarbnate, sometimes called sodium hydrogen carbonate--a different name for the same chemical. Most people know this chemical by it common name of baking soda. Yep, the suff that Arm and Hammer sells in the yellow box for a lot less money then the pool store sells it for! Now baking soda will cause the pH to rise to about 8.0-8.2 and, without knowing where your total alkalinity was before you added it I cant really say whether this was the right amount, too little, or too much. Your pool might be a small one but it is a real pool and needs to be cared for exactly as any other. The chemicals you need are: a chlorine source (Laundry bleach is fine!) pH adjusters (Muriatic acid and borax are what I would use, the are problems with using the pH incraser usually sold, which btw is just sodium carbonate, AKA washing soda found in the laundry aisle of the grocery store, same place you can find the 20 mule team borax!) Alkainity increaser (baking soda) Stabilzier (cyanuric acid) Your pool is vinyl so you don't really need calcium so don't waste any money on this. a GOOD drop based test kit (don't rely on strips) that will test for all these things. I recommend the Taylor K-2006 but the K-2005 is adequite but not as easy to use and is limited to how high it can measure chlorine levels (which can be an issue if you ever develop algae!) ajust the Cyanuric acid to between 30-50 ppm Keep the free chlorine between 3-5 ppm Keep pH between 7.2-7.6 (you will find that you will have better pH stability if you shoot for the higher end of 7.6 in most cases) Keep the total alkalinity between 80-100 ppm (if you decide to use trichlor pucks for chlorination you might do better keeping the alkalinity between 100-120 but you will need to keep close watch on the cyanuric acid levels since the pucks are about half cyanuric acid and if that gets too high your chlorine becomes much less effective and you might find that you are getting algae outbreaks! The only cure would be to drain and refill some of the water to get the CYA levels back down!) Don't let this scare you off. It's really a lot easier then it sounds! The first step is getting a GOOD test kit (Your pentair 2 way tester only tests for Total chlorine (you have the yellow liquid test for chlorine). You want to be testing Free chlorine, which is why I recommend the Taylor K-2006 test kit, about $60. Also the pH test in your kit is likely to give you a false high rading on pH when the chlorine levels are high. This is a common interferernce to the pH test and has a lengthy chemical explanation I won't go into now (I've posted it many times before). The pH reagent in the Taylor kit has a chlorine neutralizer built in and is compensated to give accurate results for chlorine levels up to about 15 ppm. Most pH reagents aren't. (NO, I don't work for Taylor. We don't even sell their kits where I work! I wish we did! I just own a few different ones for my own use.) Hope you find this info useful!
  20. 1//4 cup of bleach should raise your spa in the neighborhood of 4 ppm and 1 cup to about 10 ppm (this would be either 5.25% regular bleach or 6% ultra bleach. It's not an exact measurement and it will get you in the ball park, but then again, it's a spa and not rocket science! If you want it more exact 1/2 tablespoon of regular bleach will raise 100 gallons 1 ppm and .45 tablespoon of the ultrra will do the same! So if you are using dichlor an easy way to switch is to use about 2 tablespoons (1 oz) of bleach for each teaspoon of dichlor you were using. It will be pretty close. Test your water with a good test kit before and after dosing and you will know exactly how much bleach will cause a certain ppm rise in your tub. For example, if you start at 2 ppm FC and add 2 oz of bleach and then have a reading of 4 ppm you know that 2 oz of bleach will raise your tub 2 ppm. Hope this helps. Hope this helps.
  21. What sanitizer are you using? (unstabilized chlorine can probably go longer between water changes then either bromine or stabilized chlorine) PPM stands for parts per million and is a measurement. On which water chemisry parameter is the ppm 'creeping up a bit'? Some, like total alkalinity, can be adjusted. Others, like calcium hardness or cyanuric acid in a chlorine system, cannot without draining. 100 ppm cyanuric acid (CYA) is a marker of when a commercial pool will be closed in most states. it is WAY to high for normal operation or either a pool or spa. In fact many state health departments recommend that spas contain 0 ppm CYA. IMHO, 30 ppm would be the top limit for a spa before either draining and refilling or switching from dichlor to unstabilzied chlorine.
  22. The small amount of bromine carried into to the pool by bathers that are in the hot tub should not have any negative conswquences. You could convert the hot tub to chlorine. Many people succcessfully run chlorine tubs. They tend to have less of a chemical smell and are less expensive to maintain. If you decide to stick with bromine in the tub I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. The worst that can happen is it can create a bit of a temporary chlorine demand in the pool. Sodium bromide is used in chlorine pools as an algicide, besides being used to establish a bromide reserve in the water of a bromine spa on each refill.
  23. Thye Dawn would reduce the surfact tension of the water and the bugs would not be able to 'walk' on the water surface and would sink and drown. However I would not suggest adding Dawn to your pool unless you want a bubble bath. You can achieve the same results with tile soap squirted across the surface of the water. Tile soap is very low foaming. Bioguard Back Up is a linear quaterinary algaecide. The quatinary compounds are a class of detergent known as cationic surfactants. I am assuming it would also reduce the surface tension of the water and cause the bugs to sink and drown, especially in conjunction with another wetting agent such as tile soap. Be aware that linear quats are the type of algaecides that foam so they might not be much better than using Dawn! I'm still around!
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