great white

This is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. North Face jackets are made in California. They are the best cold weather jackets out there. Told just like a non full foam salesman would. Wow, great theory. Except I have a full foamed Hot springs Grandee and i live in Canada. Yup, it was made in California.Arctic spa and Beachomer are fully insulated, just not with a spray in foam. Arctic uses insultated removable panels and a light foam on the shell, beachcomber uses Roxul insulation packed from skirt to shell. I mentioned them so the fine young lass in Winnipeg would look at a fully insulated tub, be it foam or by other means. I could care less where it's made. You should also read a little closer before firing off an inflammatory "one liner" response , I said they would be incurring higher running cost with a NON full foamed tub. Yup, all that sure sounds like a "non foam salesman" alright. I have also had to repair a leak in my Grandee and dealt with digging foam and replacing it. If you think it's easier and cheaper for a DIYer to locate and fix a leak in a fully foamed used tub as opposed to a non full foam...well, that speaks for itself.

LOL, screen name is Great White. Spa savant is something the forum adds. No worries. I'm not trying to upsell you, but our Grandee is huge. Simply huge. The HS warranty is 2 year "bumper to bumper" (our dealer is "top up" on that to the 5 years bumper to bumper), 5 year on leaks, and 7 years on the shell. But, they do not come cheap. You're looking at 3-4 grand more than the prices you're looking at in your post for that one. My opinion on stereo in the Hot tub is it shouldn't be a deciding factor either way. Lots of people seem to have issues with them, lots don't. To me it's just one more thing to break. At best, I would get the pop up speakers with the ability to plug in an MP3 player. I would still rather use a simple stereo i could takle in and out of the house (and that's what we do). It's just a gadget really, to make it seem like you're getting more than for your buck. In truth, a $100 portable stereo will give you better sound and you can still use it in the house, the garage, out camping, etc.... The lounger? Well, we wet tested a couple models. LIke I mentioned, pointless for us and just ate up seating space that could have been used for a few different jet massages. If we had bought hte vista (closest HS model with a lounger) we would have lost a Moto massage jet position and a rotating jet area. After testing a Grandee the missus and I knew we'd be fighting for the one motomassage in the Vista. The Grandee had two moto massage places. The Vista also did not have a cool down step and it used the lounger as the entry steps but the grandee has two very wide distinct steps inside the tub. Wet test a lounger and decide for yourself would be my best advice. A cool down area is also nice to have. It's a spot where you can sit up (mostly) out of the water. If you find youself getting overheated but not ready to get out of the tub, you pop up on the cool down step and have a rest. Without a cool down step, you have to sit on the sides of the tub or get out completely. Personally, I find this neither convient, comfortable or safe. Getting in and out is a major PITA, you can slip each time you do it, sitting on the edges is usually uncomfortable unless they are specifically designed to do this and there's also the possibility of loosing your balance and falling over backwards. The step might also be a concern for you. If hubby does have bone issues, you probably want to look for a model that has a couple easy access steps inside the tube. Steps on the outside is a nice addition from the dealer, but the stepping areas getting in to the water is equally important and that's something you can't add or change afterwards. Nothing sucks worse than trying to ease yourself into a tub that doesn't have nice wide steps or forces you to use a seating position as a step. They don't have hand rails either unless you buy an aftermarket style one that is slipped under the tub and is held in place by the tub weight. Remember it's going to be slippery underwater, at least more slippery than the outside steps. Slipping becomes a serious issue if you have pain and bone issues as a slip can reult in twisted muscles/tendons/ligaments, broken bones, or (gawd forbid and super rare occurance) drowning if you knock yourself out. It only gets harder to get in as you get older too... While you are not looking at a HS model, these are some features and items you might want to look for or consider if they are important to you. Here's something else to consider doing with such an expensive purchase on the horizon. You're starting to move up in price for something you're hoping will get some "medicinal" use. I would suggest your hubby find a local fitness place that has a hot tub area. Get a 30 day members ship and try soaking a couple times a week or so. If it does actually give him some relief, you will at least know that your money will be well spent vice spending a big wad of cash. You can go with him too and see if it gives you any comfort. The kids? Meh, they're kids. For them it's just pleasure and if you don't buy one it won't make a difference to them either way. Cheers

That's a lot to look at, so I'll just give you my general responses: 1. Skin bateria/psoriasis: See your doctor before using a Hot tub. The temperature, chemicals and immersion may not be good for you. You doctor may also recommend others not bath with you for exposure reasons. I have no idea what your particular situation is, but your doctor can give you the green light or what cautions you should/might take. 2. Used tub: If you go this route, I would suggest a non-full foamed tub. Used tub means failures/leaks are far more likley and you will not have a warranty. Even if hubby is handy, finding and fixing leaks will be much easier with an open shell. Digging out and replacing wet foam is niether easy nor inexpensive. However, you will be looking at higher running costs in the winter due to heat loss with a non full foam tub, especially in the praries (I've lived there - Brrrrrrr). Arctic Spa models are an exception, also Beachcomber to a lesser extent. Both Candian companies that build with an eye towards our "unique" climate. 3. Not coming up to temp: that tub requires repairs. Not going above 90c is a big warning sign. Could be as simple as a switch, could be as expensive as a heater or a control board. For reference, my 2010 Grandee will rocket up to it's max setting in short order if I set it there. We keep ours at around 98-100C for most of the year, maybe tip it up to 102c in the winter months. 4. Loungers: I'm not a fan. They take up a lot of space and with the jets on they usually just push me to the top of the water. Pointeless. I'm not 6'6" either though. 5. jets: I stay away from anythign that had a bazillion pin point jets. They are just painfull to me. I prefer jets that move, rotate or have a broader footprint where they inpact you skin. tiny sharpo jets might be a concern with your skin conditions. They can actually for infections in to you pores if there's anything in the water. 6. Chemicals: well, that's a bit of a crap shoot. We first used bromine (was teh "in thing" at the time) and after a couple dips I couldn't stand it. Itching, scratching, redness, etc. Wife was fine. Swapped to chlorine and everything was good. I guess my point is whatever the newest fad is doesn't really matter; you may get in and have to change it anyways. Your skin condtions may make you even more sensitive. I will say that our tub has the Ozone system and my chemical use is pretty low for sanitizer. I do belive it works for that purpose. It's been running constant for almost 5 years without fault. 7. Final, most important point: DON'T BUY ANYTHING YOU CAN'T WET TEST!!!!!!!! I can't stress that enough. We bought new, but there were several tubs we sat in dry that felt good. Once wet tested, the jets were all wrong, some postions would float us up or blow us out (IE: jets), the bumps and armrest postions all changed and we walked away disappointed. The way a tub feels dry is nothing like it does wet. It's because of the jets, your floatation, etc..... I understand budget constraints, we were lucky enough to have the good fortune to have a bit of money we didn't expect. We considered used also. I didn't like the older tech, "used tub" stigma (what the heck has been in there?) and lack of service support a used tub would have had. We ended up with a HS Grandee. It's so big, I can't imaging anyone not being able to submerse in it. it also has several different types of jets so we move from one to the other to get different "massage" effects. But it wasn't 3,000 CAD either. Heck, it wasn't even 6,000 - oh how I wish it had been that "cheap". But there's also no a lot of "economy" in spending 3-6 grand on a tub you don't like or seldom use. I wouldn't be pressured in to buying something becuase they can give you a "one time deal on the floor model tonight but not tomorrow". That is very old sales pressure tactic and it's pretty sahdy business in my opinion. If they'll give you a "discount" today, they sure as heck will give you the same deal if it's still there a month from now. If it's gone then now loss anyways. Never make a "snap decision" becasue of what a salesman says when dealing with something this expensive or this specific to a persons preferences/needs. Hope this helps and good luck in your search.

Heres the HS owners manual from 2004: http://m.hotspring.com/sites/default/files/pdfs/owners-manual/hot-spring_spas_owners_manual_2004.pdf Check pages 57 and 59 for possible problems. Cheers

You need to provide more than one fuzzy pic id you want someone to have half a chance at guessing what the brand is for you. A closeup shot of the controls, the pump cavity, any distinctive features of the skirting,any indentifying tags or serial numbers, etc. I see a few unique features in the one pic you provided, but not enough to track it down.

Not to be argumentative, but I find my 2010 Grandee headrests very comfortable with just the right amount of cushion. They don't squirm around and they "squish" as much or as little as I want. Different strokes for different folks I guess. Flimsy? maybe, they are just a foam rubber after all. However, they have stood up to nearly 5 years of constant use and are the same as the day we brought it home. That includes takeing them on and off all the time to clean and polish the shell underneath. However, you are right in that the edges are not the most comfortable place to rest. They are contoured for what I'm guessing are strength reasons. I do find the upper cool down step to be just fine though. My legs are about halfway out when sitting on it. It is very much a "one person at a time" spot though....

I would suggest you contact the dealer you bought it from and that steered you the wrong way with the crushed stone advice. They may possibly send out their crew to at least move it out of the way so the pad can be poured. They likely have the dolly and a couple guys used to moving them. Seems like a small cost to maintain customer relations to me but they may just brush you off or say the documentation is wrong or (my favorite) "only a guideline". Either way, you'll get an idea of what they'll be like if you have to have warranty work done and can prepare for them in the future. The contractor suggesting pavers is definitely one to be avoided. Does not understand what he's dealing with. Concrete and labor costs vary from region to region. With minimal work on my part, a pad only costs around 500 bucks here. I laid out he area, cleared it down and laid out the gravel bed. I also set up the forms and laid the steel. They mostly showed up, made a few adjustments and started the pour. they leveled it and I smoothed it. If you're getting a company to come in start to finish it's likley to be more expensive, given your location. If your compacted base is done properly, it wil make an excellent foundation for your pad and cut down on the labor costs for it. Of course, you've probably already paid for that so any savings is kinda moot......

Good day Steve, if I may ask a question regarding some advertizing on youtube for Hot springs: Where can I find this music to enjoy in my grandee: I have seen/heard it in nearly all the youtube Hot Springs spots and I would really like to have this music when enjoying a soak again once my tub is fixed! I can send you my email if it's not something that Hot Springs would like posted in an open forum. Cheers

Does that tub actually have an umbrella mounted in the shell or it that just sitting in there?

I may not be a hot tub expert, but I know damaged plastic when I see it. That plastic looks chemical damaged to me. Specifically, bleaching type damage which supports the oversantization suggestion above. Interesting how he "assure you my chemicals were perfect at the time this happened" and then later "I assure you my chemical were never off THAT bad", and even later on "admittedly, this tub has been sitting for a year and a half becasue I've been too PO'd". I also can't help but wonder if he was running the heater with the bad pump he's also going on about which would kill it pretty quick. And you really have to ask: why wouldn't you turn the Bromine generator off when it caused the problem in the first place? Sorry chum, your credibility score is pretty low......does the manufacturer share some responsability? Well, maybe. But they can't stand there in your backyard and turn it on and off when something goes wrong or test your chemical balance every couple days. That's your job....

2010 Hot Springs Grandee 4-5 times a week. Just me and the missus. We touch when we want and when we want our own space the Grandee has lots. We selected it to help with my messed up lower back and neck. I'm military Search and Rescue and I also use it fro "de-stressing" after seeing and doing a thing or two I'd rather not re-live. The only time we share it is if we have family over, even then it's minimal.

I had reactions to the tub water when we first got our Grandee. Rash, itching, discomfort, etc. The wife was fine so I knew it had something to do with me. We switched from bromine to chlorine and all the issues went away. It takes a bit more maintenance to use chlorine, but the tub is nice an comfy for me and the missus now....

Please take precautions when dealing with the remnants of the rat condo. The feces, urine and other leavings can carry all kind of nasty deseases. A simple dust mask will not suffice to give adequate protection. Get one of the rubber/silicone face respirators that seals to your skinand has the approriate cartidges. I would also suggest a pair of the disposable white coveralls. Gloves and goggles go without saying.... If you plan to use a shop vac, keep teh kids and others very far away from teh back yard and close the windows to the house. A shop vac will suck up the mess but it will also "aerosolize" it. Use the filter bags that go in the shop vacs. It sounds like overkill, but if you or your kids get something like hantavirus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hantavirus) and it you wil wish you had gone through the trouble.....

Old post, but now I have to go check my 2010 grandee for a usb port!

Not a lot of help, but if it's like our 2010 Grandee the remote is dependant on the control board. According to our dealer, we can by the remote for our tub because the board supports a remote. I assume lower level boards would have to be swapped out if a remote is desired. Perhaps that's where your dealer is getting "factory installed" from? I'd suggest you google whatever board number is in your spa and see if there's any info on it......

When we installed our 2010 Grandee the instructions came with it. The pre installation docs were given to use by the dealer when we dropped our deposit. I read them and it was pretty clear the Grandee required the proper deck or reinforced pad. If someone "skims" installation instructions, well, it's buyer beware at that point. Kinda like leading a horse to water but........ Every other model at that time we bought our grandee could be installed differently, but it was clear in the directions the grandee (and vista) was too large to install on anything but the two listed methods. Makes sense, that sucker has got to weigh 2-3 tons filled with water. Ours went on a level pad as per directions, but even that was pushed down a touch by the wieght after a month or two and we ended up with a low and high side. Only a few fractions of an inch, but it did. The main thing for our tub is the bottom framing was still even and true to support the water weigh without distorion to the tub. It's not about the water being level, it's about evenly spreading the load over the bottom surface. If you're on aggregate, then it same settle unvenly from the weight and potentially "rack" the tub (that's a bad thing). Once you did take delivery, reading the instruction would have been my first thing. If I had been in your situ at that point, my tub would have been lying on it's side until I could have gotten a proper surface. Not trying to be confrontational or rude, but it is/was pretty clear. In both the manual and the installation directions. The main issues I'd see with not installing the the tub IAW directions is sinking and possible racking of the tub. Could result in everyting from leaks to improper function Personally, I'd drain it, pour the pad and then refill. It would drive me nuts knowing something in my house was installed wrong. Especially a $10,000+ expenditure that may be jeapardizing warranty coverage becuase of improper installation. It will cost you somewhere around 500 bucks, but it protects an items that cost 20+ time more than that. Cheap insurance and worth the hassle. if you have a hassle, I'd say it's with your dealer and not with Hot Springs. Hot springs puts the documentation out and the dealer should have given you the preinstallation instructions when you ordered. That they told you "it was fine" only shows they don't know thier product. i kind of get the sense you're looking for someone to say "nah, it's OK as is, you'll be fine", but that would be poor advice IMHO..... Cheers

I started using bromine in my tub and had to switch to chlorine. I was having adverse reactions (rash, itching, etc) to the bromine. Swapped to chlorine and all was good. If you litereally have a "line" on your bod where the water surface touches you, I'd say there's some sort of culture growing on your water surface......reagrdles sof how it "looks".

After almost 5 years of use (bought in Nov 2009) My 2010 Grandee has developed a leak. All in all, it's not that bad. 5 years of constant year round use with outside temps from -25C to +35c and a 7000km move thrown in for good measure. I contacted Watkins and they have literally jumped to the cause. I'm in an austere location and the nearest dealer is 1500kms away and an 8 hour ferry ride. So to say I'm on my own is a fair statement. So far they've done nearly everything possible besides jump on a plane and fly here with a couple techs. The leak was first noticed under a moto massage corner. A quick internet search revealed there's a nipple in there for the recirc system that has been known to be troublesome. After talking with my original dealer by phone, they concurred that the nipple sounds like the problem as they've repaired several. So, off comes the ranch-wall siding board and I start to dig into the foam directly at the base of the cavity. Sure enough, there it is: nipple is broken clean off. After talking to Peggy at Watkins warranty service, I find they have 2 different repairs developed specifically for this issue. One for repair without access to the rear and one with access. She immediately posts out both repair kits and enough to do both massage cavities. In all honesty, a hardware stock ABS nipple with a nut and seal surface would probably work just fine, but I'll wait for the repair kit and decide from there how I want to go. There's Devcon and tools coming in the kit, so I want to see if it's a "permanent" style repair. Sounds like a glue in style solution. Peggy wanted to send out the foam kit to re-foam the tub, but there are dangerous goods concerns with crossing the border that makes it very expensive and difficult to ship. She tells me she is going to call around to some of the Canadian dealers to see if they have the foam kits and have them mail the foam to me. My moto massage jets also had stopped moving up and down, she dropped those in the mail also after I confirmed a few things about them (IE: air lines good, filter not restrictive, etc). Easy change out and a quick fix for me. The other thing she offered was to have an independent dealer repair the tub for us and pay the costs. However, that dealer is 7 hours round trip drive away (that's just travel time to get here, not repair time) and could not come out for the next 2-3 weeks. Since we are in the "it may freeze, it may not" time of the year here, that's too much of a risk to take. I'll fix it myself as I have no problems doing this type of repair. They could come out sooner, but the travel costs and service call would have been $65 and hour. That would add up waaay too fast for me to want cover. Watkins was willing to cover the service call, but not the travel. I'm not unreasonable, I understand that. It's not their fault the military moved me to such a remote area. Sometimes life throws you a curve like that and you just have to be reasonable about what can and can't be done. They have said once I get the kit they will call me and have thier service techs at Hot Springs guide me through the install also. Nice offer, but I'm installing a nipple not doing sub orbital repair on the space shuttle. Pretty simple stuff for a guy with my background. Still, it's nice to know answers are a phone call away. So, the total $$ cost of all this work to me? Nothing, Nada, zip. Not bad nearly 5 years after buying it. Kinda glad I didn't go for a "dept store" tub 5 years ago..... The repair is only going to take me a couple hours (including sealant drying time), but the wet foam is going to be a PITA to all dig out. If worse comes to worse and freezing temps hit us, I can plug the small hole in the massage cavity and refill the tub to turn the heat on. Such a simple thing causing such a big problem. Such is life..... Funny thing is: I have no idea why it broke. It was fine, we drained and cleaned the tub and when we refilled it it was leaking. No idea why the nipple cracked off. I guess maybe some aging, combined with some heat and weight stress from the empty/refill procedure just did it in. What caused it is immaterial anyways, its a fact and it needs to be fixed toute suite! We also thought the other side was leaking, but a bit of troubleshooting seems to indicate it is still solid. We plugged the cracked side, filled the tub and the water level did not drop again so it seems that it's good. Seems the water in the rest of the tub was simply finding it's level with the broken nipple through the recirc system. I may dig out that side also and change out the nipple on spec. Seems prudent if I'm going to re-foam anyways.....that's a job for the spring though. Priority is to get it water tight and turn the heat back on before Jack frost gets here. Overall, I have to say it's been a positive experience dealing with Denise and Comox Fireplace and Patio and Peggy at Watkins manufacturing. The service has been quick, courteous and pleasurable. The cost has only been my own time. The fix is pretty simple. If I wasn't in the middle of nowhere, I have no doubt my tub would have been repaired within a few days. Including the new foam. Positive warranty experience so far considering the odd circumstances we're dealing with here. Here's hoping the nipple is the only source of troubles.

Other than hooking up power wires to the terminals in the box, I'm wondering why the electrician was even messing with the lead from the box to the heater? Are you sure that whomever delivered the tub didnt mess up? Or was it messed up from the factory? I guess I wouldnt sweat the electrician. It was an annoyance, but no harm done, no damage. You have your tub now, get it warmed up and enjoy it. I think you misunderstood. It was the connection to the control box, not the control box to the heater....

It's funny how quickly you get used to the idea of feet of snow....I really didn't think much about it...I mean it's only 10" of snow right? Then I started to think..really...that is quite a bit. Good thing I cleaned it off...we are waist deep now....and getting more. I hate snow! I had a guy come up to me the other day and start complaining about the cold and snow. I asked him if he had a brain tumor or was sick or something, he said no. I then proceeded to call him an idiot for choosing northern Minnesota to live in if he didn't like the cold and snow because for the last 51 years of my life it has never been warm and sunny in the winter in Minnesota. And somehow maybe that slipped by him or he's an idiot. I shouldnt complain....I know what I am in for! I have one hell of a bad attitude this week....a couple of feet of snow to shovel and a full blown case of Pneumonia......thought I was going to die on the sidewalk yesterday! From a fellow northerner, one word: Snowblower.

Something is wrong. My water was also around 50 degrees from the hose, but I was up to 102 in five or six hours if I remember correctly. I know for sure it was same day. Aha! The spa tech was just here. Seems the electrician hooked the power supply fr the heater up to the wrong terminal in the spa control box. He swapped the wire over, turned on the power and "click" on came the heater. Now the wife is calling the electrician to give him hell and see what he intends to do about it. At the very least, we are not paying full price for the job. I feel bad for the poor guy, even I'm scard of my 130 lb woman......

Spoke too soon it seems. 12 hrs overnight, it's still at 51 degrees. Did the reset proceedure this morning and the spa tech will be out today. Grrrr..........if that frickin' electrician screwed up the heater by turning the wrong breaker on first, he'll be buying us a new spa.....

Yoop yoop, all is good. Just checked the temperature and it's now up to 52! Phew, was getting pretty worried after not seeing any temp climb after 4-ish hours. Last chems go in tonight, chlorine tomorrow...

Should be good for Thursday after work soak! Nah, still adding chems. Go to work tomorrow, start adding chlorine after work. Oddly enough, it started off at 50 degrees right out of the hose, now three hours later and it's still 50 degrees on the display. It's not going up, but it hasn't dropped any temp either. No error codes on the display, no flashing leds on the side light, Circ pump working and we followed the start up proceedures. Hmmmm........getting a little concerned.........it's -3 C here right now......

Well, the dealer dropped off the grandee today! The electrician showed up and hour later. She's all filled up, the chems are going in (gradually and according to the start up "recipe") and the heater is bringing up the temp. Should be all balanced out and properly heated for a nice friday after work soak. We can't wait!