simonc

Probably the cheapest and one of the best ways to sanitize your tub is the diclor-then-bleach method. Read about it here. I have been using it for over a year and it works great. You use clorox brand chlorine bleach. It's hard to find any sanitizer cheaper (or more effective) than that. Hydrogen peroxide is is really an "oxidizer" more than a "sanitizer". It takes longer for it to kill dangerous bacteria or viruses that may be introduced into your tub by bathers. Chlorine (or bromine) kills things very fast ... making the water safer for you. In regards to the above link, don't be intimidated by it. It's long and detailed. I would read the whole thing, but most of the things you need to do are in the summary section. It goes a little like this ... 1. Get a good test kit so you actually know what's going on in your tub. You should do this regardless of the type of sanitizer you use. 2. Balance the water. Again, this should be done for all tubs, regardless of the type of sanitizer. 3. Use diclor (dry chlorine) for a week or two as your sanitizer. Diclor is relatively cheap. 4. Then switch to clorox bleach - regular/unscented brand. Lastly, don't add hydrogen peroxide and chlorine together ... they cancel each other out. I don't know anything about peroxysan, so I cant' make any recommendations in this regard. If you decide to use the diclor then bleach method it might be a good idea to refill the tub and start with fresh water ... can't hurt. Good luck, - Simon

I keep my chemicals on my deck in a plastic deck box. I live in the San Francisco, CA area so temperatures are fairly moderate. My suggestion ... I keep these chemicals in a large plastic bucket (paint bucket size, like you find at the hardware store). Chemicals spill and the bucket makes sure that the spill is contained and doesn't leak out on the deck. I haven't had any spills ... it's just a precaution. Good luck, - Simon

I can't help you with the chemistry related questions, but I would like to suggest the diclor-then-bleach method if you are not already using it. It's described in Nitro's post here. It will add enough CYA so that the chlorine has less of an effect on your spa pillows and other components. Just a side note: A have a Jacuzzi spa too. My pillows stayed in good condition for about 2-3 years then they started to deteriorate. They are expensive to replace. I just took them out completely. Yes, it looks a little funny but I enjoy the tub just as much. You can buy aftermarket (not Jacuzzi) pills that hand over the side of the tub. They are relatively inexpensive (about US$20 each) and you can take them out of the tub while you are not using them. This makes them last almost forever. Good luck, - Simon

What do you want to know? I have 2 spa's using them. MikeM1 - Like the original poster, I am also interested in aftermarket salt water generators. Generally, you don't see much posted in this forum on this topic ... I've been looking. Since you have two Nexa units, I assume you like them? Here are my questions: 1. What models do you have? Are your units ones that you just drop into the tub or do they require a special plumbing/electrical installation? (I'm interested in the "just drop it in" kind.) 2. Do they work, i.e., do chlorine levels remain relatively constant? 3. How much trouble are they? Do they require constant adjustment or other frequent maintenance? How close do they come to "set it and forget it"? 4. How long do they last? I assume that overtime the electrodes require some type of cleaning or replacement? 5. Is it small enough not to interfere with using the tub or do you need to take it out while you are in the tub? 6. Bottom line: Are you happy with it and would you recommend it to others? I have a small (275 gallon) Jacuzzi brand hot tub. My wife and I use it about 4 times a week. I'm hoping to get away from constantly adding chlorine. Also, I'd like something that when I go on vacation for a more than a few days, I don't have to worry about keeping up the sanitizer levels while no one is home to monitor it. Thanks, - Simon

Here are some of my observations that might be helpful. Since you didn't post detail data (santizer levels, etc.) I can't be sure if all this applies to your situation. 1. Cloudy water is often caused by something growing in your water. This happens when the sanitizer level gets too low. You mentioned that you are using "Spa Frog". I'm NOT familiar with this device, but looking at their website, there are different types of spa frog devices. The simplest one just has minerals, but no sanitizer. It's not clear from your post what type of sanitizer (if any) you are using. 2. Assuming that the cloudy water is due to something growing in your tub, you need to shock it. Because you are using Spa Frog and you don't state the sanitizer you are using, I can't recommend a shock method. 3. You said you used "shock". There are two types of "shock". There is non-chlorine shock which is also called "oxidizing shock". Typically, it is a chemical called MPS. It is NOT a sanitizer and will not help much if you have something growing in your tub. It's major function is to oxidize bather waste (like sweat). The other type of shock is "chlorine shock" ... it is more of a method than a chemical ... you increase the free chlorine by adding a larger amount of chlorine sanitizer than usual. It will kill things growing in your tub. Which type of "shock" did you use? 4. Foaming can be a result of having things growing in your spa. If you kill what's growing, the foaming will stop. However, the foaming could come from residual chemicals from manufacturer, but this is unlikely. 5. Lastly, get a good test kit. The test strips are hard to read and aren't very reliable. They are good for a quick check of FC and pH, but they are not accurate enough if you trying to solve spa problems. Good luck and let us know what works for your situation ... - Simon

I can't help you with the chemistry question ... why your TA is dropping ... but I can tell you how I use TSP to clean the filters on my spa. I don't have any foaming problems after cleaning the filters. 1. First off, I have two sets of filters. So I can have a clean set already to put in when I need to change them. 2. Read the cautions on the TSP package. It's a powerful chemical and can be dangerous if you don't handle it properly. 3. I have a large plastic storage-type bin. I put in about 10-15 gallons of water which is enough water to cover the filters completely. Then mix in 2 cups of TSP. I also add a cup of bleach. Stir it up and then put in the filters. 4. I let it sit for a day. 5. I pull the filters out. I rinse them down real well with a spray nozzle on the hose. 6. After throwing away the old TSP water. I rinse out the tub and refill it with clean water. I then put the filters in. Move them around a little and then let them sit another day. 7. I take the filters out. Hose them down with the sprayer. Throw out the old water, put in new water, and let them soak another day. 8. Lastly, I take out the filters and hose them off again. This time I let them dry so they are ready for use. I think using the plastic tub reduces the amount of water I need to use. The tub soaking dilutes the residual TSP. By repeating the process the TSP residual is very very low and I don't have any foaming problems. Lastly, I don't change my filters very often - maybe every two or three months. I know some people change their filters every week. I wouldn't use the above process (too much TSP, too much water, and too much work) if I changed them often. I hope this helps, - Simon

Some thoughts ... 1. Copper can cause green/blue water. Any possible source of copper in your system or your water? 2. If algae is causing the color, your water would most likely be cloudy in addition to being blue/green. Good luck, - Simon

Just one thought ... Have you put your numbers into the Pool Calculator to determine a CSI index? Go to the poolcalculator, look at the bottom portion of the page. Your CSI should be close to zero. A good CSI will make your spa and equipment last longer. Good luck, - Simon

I'm sorry to hear that you are having so much trouble with your spa. It doesn't have to be this way. I can't comment on a bromine spa ... I run a chlorine based spa. It's actually pretty easy and relatively inexpensive. I use the Diclor then bleach method. It's very simple 1. Start with a new refill - fresh water. 2. Balance the water (more on this later) 3. Add Diclor for about a week or two. 4. Then switch to regular (unscented) chlorox bleach. 5. Test the water and adjust things as necessary. This method is explained in this rather long post, but it's worth reading. At first it might seem overwhelming, but the key points are in the summary section. Get yourself a good test kit (as recommended in the post) and you can get started. The post tells how to balance your water and why it is important. There are a lot of people on this forum that use the Diclor then bleach method. It's simply the cheapest and probably as easy as most methods. Give it a try: Diclor then bleach method. Good luck, - Simon

Sorry to hear about your rash problems. Rashes can come from two sources: water chemistry or bacterial infection. Because you have a new tub, bacterial infection is less of a possibility, but here is a table that may help you determine the cause of your rash: rash link. Some tub chemicals can cause a rash. Have you been using MPS (non-chlorine shock - also called oxidizing shock)? Some people are allergic to this. I suggest that you post the chemicals you are using. Maybe a forum member can give you some more advice. Personally, I think it unlikely that the salt in the water is causing your rash. As suggested by others, get your water tested. Good luck with your tub and your rash, - Simon

Scott - I think you are making the right decision to switch over to the diclor then bleach method. I have used it successfully in my Jacuzzi brand tub for about a year now. I know nothing about "ProClear Mineral Spa Sanitizer" so I can't comment on it. I assume you are going to use bleach INSTEAD OF ProClear??? If your major concern is warranty, call Jacuzzi and find out what the manufacturer says about adding chlorine on a daily basis. It could be that the dealer is just trying to sell you more expensive chemicals. I would be surprised if Jacuzzi tells you that you don't need to maintain at least 1ppm of free chlorine your tub. Ask if they have any warranty restrictions on the use of chlorine in the tub. Ask if they have any published recommendations for water maintenance. Let us know what they say ... - Simon

Tom - Usually ... cloudy water means that you have "something" growing in your water ... bacteria/algae. That's not good because that "something" could make you sick or give you a rash. Most likely, when you added chlorine you killed that "something" and the water became clear again. Because your water is getting cloudy, I don't think the hydrogen peroxide is doing a good job as a sanitizer. As the other poster said, in the USA, hydrogen peroxide is not an "approved" sanitizer. Also, as that person said, hydrogen peroxide destroys chlorine and vice versa. Using both together to maintain your tub does not make any sense. (Note: I use chlorine as a sanitizer. If my chlorine level is too high (>5ppm) and I want to get into the tub, I'll add an ounce or two of hydrogen peroxide to bring the chlorine level down so I can use the tub by only waiting a few minutes for the chlorine to drop.) Good luck, - Simon

Gouie - Since you're new to maintaining your tub, I thought you might find the following information useful ... 1. I agree with the others who have suggested that you get a better test kit. Without a good test kit, you are operating "in the dark" without the necessary information to maintain you tub. The test kit is the CHEAPEST part of tub ownership. Consider the cost of purchasing your tub, installation (usually involves electrical and/or decking), utilities to keep the water warm, chemicals, water for refills, etc.. By comparison a good test kit is cheap. 2. The #1 goal of tub maintenance is to keep your water SAFE! You have to have the right level of sanitizer in your tub to accomplish this. How do you determine if you have a the proper level of sanitizer??? That's right - with a good test kit. 3. The #2 goal (for many people) of tub maintenance is to make sure the water & chemicals don't damage your tub. You have to have the right pH, calcium level, etc. Again, you can't do this unless you have a good test. 4. Take advice from you dealer this a grain of salt. There are many good dealers that are very knowledgeable, but there are also many dealers whose primary objective is to sell you as many chemicals and gadgets as possible. This forum is a good place to get feedback on dealer advice. 5. Your tub is NOT a small swimming pool. Because of the high temperatures, things can go bad very fast in a tub. Chemical levels can change overnight because of bacteria/algae growth in the tubs very warm water. After you've made the initial adjustment of chemicals, it's important to stay on top of your sanitizer level and your pH level. 6. If you have too much chlorine sanitizer in your tub (as determined by a good test kit), you can bring it down by adding a few ounces of hydrogen peroxide ... the stuff they sell at most drug and grocery stores. Good luck, - Simon

I can't help answer your question since I'm not familiar with the device. But I have a suggestion ... you might post your question in the Portable Hot Tub Section of this website. Many equipment related questions are posted in that forum and you might get more responses from those folks. Good Luck, - Simon

IMPORTANT!!! ... In re-reading your post, I noticed that you have a "Softub". I'm not familiar with this type of tub but it may require SPECIAL chemicals to maintain the water. I suggest that you do NOT try decontaminating the tub until you first talk to the manufacturer and follow their recommendations. Doing otherwise could ruin your tub and void your warranty. The standard decontamination procedure is intended for plaster (in ground) and fiberglass (typically above ground) tubs. I have no idea what is the correct procedure for your tub. The manufacturer should be able to tell you. Also, the diclor-then-bleach method of sanitation may not be appropriate for tub. Using bleach may void the tubs warranty. Again, talk to the manufacturer. I did find this link to the Softub maintenance manual: manual . In the this manual, it tells you how to sanitize your tub per manufacturer's directions. I'm sorry that I can't be of more help ... - Simon

I don't know the specific cause of your problem, but here are some suggestions/thoughts that might help: 1. I looked up HTH Enzyme Cleaner on their website. It gave no directions for use. Most enzyme based cleaners are used to clean your tub prior to draining it and then refilling it with new water. Typically, they are not intended to be added to the water that you plan on keeping in your tub. Look at the directions on the bottle. I'd be surprised if it doesn't say to drain the tub after adding the cleaner. 2. You appear to not be properly sanitizing your tub. You said you haven't used anything else in your tub. You also state that the water you use is "highly chlorinated". I assume this is the water that is provided by your water district for home use, i.e., drinking, bathing etc. The chlorine in the water you use in your home is NOT sufficient to sanitize a hot tub. Because of the high temperatures and exposure to contaminates (like human bodies) you MUST add a sanitizer to your tub to kill algae, bacteria, viruses, etc.. If you don't do this, you will continue to have problems and the water might even make you sick. 3. You probably should decontaminate your tub and then start over from the beginning using a standard sanitizing method. Her is a a link to the decontamination procedure: The Link. Here is a link to one method of using chlorine as a sanitizer: Diclor-then-bleach. There are various ways to sanitize your tub. If you want to safely use your tub you MUST sanitize it. 4. As far as draining your tub with a hose ... Water has to flow down hill, unless you buy a pump to get the water out of your tub. Typically, people drain their tubs into areas that aren't sensitive to the tub chemicals and salts. It's best to drain it into your home's sewer system, if possible. Do NOT drain into the storm drain sewers. Typically these flow into streams/rivers. I use a pump which pumps the water into my home sewer system. Good luck, - Simon

I think your best bet is to drain the tub, do a decontamination, and refill with fresh water. If you don't itch with the fresh water, you know it has something to do with the chemicals in your water. If it turns out to be chemicals in your water, I would use the diclor then bleach method. Don't use MPS ... you don't need it. You can get rid of CCs by shocking with chlorine bleach. The rule of thumb to get rid of CCs is to shock with 10X the CC level ... i.e. ... if your CCs are 2ppm you need to shock with at least 20ppm chlorine. Let us know how you resolve the "itch problem". Good luck, - Simon

Chem Geek - Thanks for giving us a working link to this information. This topic comes up a lot and I think the information in the article is very useful. - Simon

Chem Geek (one of the chemistry types in this forum) had a post that compared the characteristics of chemical vs. bacterial skin reactions. Unfortunately, the link in that doesn't work any more. (CHEM GEEK - do you have working link for the comparison table?). Anyway ... here are my thoughts/suggestions: 1. Because of the sudden onset after using your tub, it's most likely a chemical reaction. I assume the rash also goes away quickly if you don't get into the tub for a day or two? 2. Hot water can make a skin problem very itchy. Have you ever had a poison oak/ivy rash and then taken a hot shower? The hot water really makes it itch. I assume that you are not getting itchy if you just take a hot shower. 3. What's your pH? Water that is very acidic or basic can cause skin irritation. Your pH (for skin purposes) should be between 7.2 and 7.8. 4. What chemicals are you using in your tub? MPS can cause a rash. Triclor (tablets/pucks) can increase the acidity over time. 5. If you can't seem to solve the problem, I would do a decontamination and then see if a fresh refill solves your problem. Good luck, - Simon

Mark - I think you may be overly concerned about which chemicals to use at startup. Unless you have some unusually hard water or water with high levels of metal, I think your primary focus should be on properly balancing your water. If your water is balanced correctly, you'll have fewer problems and your tub will last longer. The key to balancing your water is to get your Calcium Saturation Index (CSI) close to zero. This will help you avoid scale and deterioration of your fiberglass tub. You can use the Pool Calculator to figure out your CSI. You have to adjust various parameters (like calcium hardness, pH, etc.) The best explanation of how to set these values is in Nitro's writeup on Water Balancing. The summary section gives you some approximate target values. Again, focus on getting your CSI near zero by properly balancing your water. That said, there are a number of ways to reduce metals in your water. You can buy a special filter that goes on your garden hose to filter the water when you fill your tub. You can also buy chemicals to add to your tub at each new fill (and when you add water). I use Spa Kem "Stain and Scale Inhibitor". Why? Mostly just force of habit. I've been using it for almost 5 years and I haven't had any scale problems with my figerglass tub. It works for me, so I use it. I have no idea what would happen if I stopped using it. Maybe everything would still be OK? I don't know. Compared to the other spa related expenses, it's a relatively cheap "habit". In regards to "dealer bashing" ... well ... everyone one has their own opinions. There are probably good Leslie dealers and some that are bad. I generally discount anyone who dismisses an entire group as "bad". Generally, dealers try to sell you the products they carry. I find this forum to be a great source of information and no one is trying to sell you anything. Good luck, - Simon

Hillbilly Hot Tub - I never tried using my shop vac on the jets. Won't it just suck air? I have a Jacuzzi brand tub. All the jets seem to "interconnected". How do you keep the vac from just sucking air through the other jets/openings? I've always wondered how to get out the "old" water at the bottom of the plumbing system. - Simon

Just a comment on Spa Purge. I used it in my tub as part of a decontamination process and it did not do a very good job. After following directions and leaving it overnight, I got very little "scum" at the waterline ... similar to your experience. After the new fill, I still had a high chlorine demand. The next time I used "Spa System Flush" as the cleaner. I got a much more "scum" at the waterline. At least in my experience, "Spa System Flush" worked better than "Spa Purge". Just my two cents worth ... - Simon

Here are few things that might help. 1. What is your Calcium Hardness (CH)? Harder water foams less. If it's significantly under a 150, you might want to add Calcium. I don't know what a reasonable upper limit is for CH in a tub. Maybe one of the chemistry types on this forum can suggest a max CH value. As CH increases, you have to watch your CSI (likelihood of forming scale/deposits) more closely. 2. When you drain the tub, you might use a wet-vac to get out all the water that collects in the low spots in the tub. In my tub (a Jacuzzi brand) this is many gallons of water. 3. Pull you filters and soak them in clear water and then rinse thoroughly with a sprayer attached to your garden hose. Good luck and let us know how it all turns out. - Simon

Cloudy water often means you have some things growing in your water ... algae, bacteria, etc.. You need to KILL these things with a sanitizer. Neither Non-chlorine shock (like Renew)nor an ozonator does a good job of sanitizing. You need to use a chlorine shock. Diclor is probably your best choice. (Bleach would be a good choice if you had already built up a reserve of CYA from previous diclor use, but you probably don't have a CYA reserve.) Good luck and let us know what happens. - Simon

Is your water also cloudy? Cloudy water often is caused by something growing in your water. Cloudy or not, you might try doing a chlorine shock, maybe at 20ppm. If the color disappears, most likely your problem was something growing in your water. (Make sure your chlorine has dropped to a normal range (2-5ppm) before using your tub after the chlorine shock. If your chlorine is too high to use the tub, you can lower it by adding a few ounces of hydrogen peroxide.) It's very unlikely that your brown/green water was caused by adding too much chlorine. Let us know how you resolve your problem. Good Luck. - Simon