JerimiahR

What year is your Jetsetter? The older models (say 1998 to 2007) allowed temperatures to go above 104 degrees. The display would read, 100, 101, 102, 103, 104, UT-1, UT-2, UT-3, UT-4. The UT-4 setting was about 107.5F. You'll also want to look at how you're measuring your temperature. If you're using an inexpensive floating thermometer, I'd trust the hot tub before the thermometer. Also keep in mind, that with 110V power supply, when you sit in the hot tub with the cover off the spa may not keep the temp up at 104+ if the outdoor temperature is cold. Also the spa cannot heat while your jets are running. If this becomes a problem for you, you can have an electrician provide a 220V connection for you. You'll find the spa heats MUCH more quickly, and will maintain water temp while you use it. :)

jetsetter, Glad you guys bought that Hot Spring Jetsetter! That's my favorite model in the whole Hot Spring lineup. Very nice hot tub. Sounds like you got a good deal on it too for $2,500. The Jetsetter could sell new for quite a bit more. You've got yourself a really great hot tub.

This typically indicates the flow-switch in the spa has triggered due to lack of circulation. This could be as simple as the circulation pump in your spa is air locked. Meaning there's more air in it than water, and it may be unable to get itself going. Just in case you don't have your Sudance Optima's manual, here's a link to the PDF version on the Sundance Website. http://www.sundancespas.com/Communications...880_60Hz_OM.pdf Your issue is addressed on Page Sec1:61 of the PDF file. The resolution for this is found on Page Sec1:62 of the PDF file (page 62 & 63 of the original manual). I would copy/paste the instructions here, except the PDF file for the Sundance Optima is password protected and Adobe won't let me even copy text.

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A lot of things could be going on here. My first question would be like this, "Did you winterize the spa before it sat off/empty for 5 months?" If you're in a cold climate (at or below freezing in winter) there's good possibility there could be freeze damage to the plumbing and other equipment in the spa if it was not properly winterized. I'd also check to make sure you have power going to the spa. Make sure you hadn't turned off the main breaker that supplies power to the hot tub. You can also contact your local Coleman dealer (now Maax Spas) and ask them for assistance.

If you have not yet checked out your local Hot Spring dealer, I'd strongly suggest you do. Vast difference between a Hot Spring spa and anything else. And to those complaining about the economy. Even suggesting that "what spa" should wait for the economy to recover is why we're in the situation we're in. What causes a recession? Mindsets: People stop spending money.... people stop buying things. Thanks to our Media, we're in a recession (they spent months telling us it was coming, and therefore it did). How do we get out of this recession? Spend money. Period. Once companies make money, they hire people. When people get hired, they pay their mortgage. Enough Said on that one. If you can afford to buy a hot tub, want a hot tub, and think you'd really enjoy it, by all means go buy one. Soak in it every night, relax, and turn off your television. Life is much better that way.

What?? I'm trying to decipher the same thing... I think Dr. Spa is reminding us to be careful of this topic. The reason being, when you start getting into energy tests & efficiency of spas, you're bound to begin an argument with folks who disagree on how to test, and whether insulation and such factors mean anything. Frankly though, all that matters is the owner's electric bill. Put a meter on the spa, and see how many KWh it actually uses. That's all the power company cares about, and therefore that's what the customer cares about.

Have you seen any unwanted floaties or filaments in your spa? Perhaps resembling bits of tissue paper, or dead skin flakes?

When dealing with electrical issues like this, I'd strongly suggest you contact your manufacturer directly. The last thing you need is to somehow get something wired wrong and actually short circuit/fry electrical components in the spa. Those tend to be expensive. Different spas can wire differently, as they don't all use the same controls and components.

I do turn it down to 80 during the week as I work long days and pretty much (unfortunately) only use it on the weekends. Also, this has not been an issue in the past where the tub would be pretty much equal with the ambient temperature and not 30-40 degree above when in either the sleep or economy mode and setting the temp at 80. You may want to consult the manual for your specific spa and see how they explain how their "sleep mode" is designed to function. Really though, if you've set the temp to be 80F, and it's actually 95 to 100F, you could have a bad thermostat in your spa. If your spa water temperatures were reaching ambient (50F?) while in sleep mode, it's not insulated very well. If it only shuts down the heating system for 6 to 8 hours, and drops from 80 to 50 even, the spa can't be very heavily insulated. If it has in fact been dropping that far in water temperature during its sleep mode, you're probably creating a higher electric bill than you need to. It's likely cheaper just to maintain a steady temperature than re-heat all that water every single morning when the spa kicks back on.

I wouldn't pay $7,400 for any 4 year old spa frankly, even if it was "New". I'm not a fan of Master Spas either, but I won't get into bashing. If he has a 2004 spa, that's "Brand New" I'd be asking questions as to where on earth this spa came from. Also there's great worry to be had with regards to the warranty. Most manufacturers (of ANY product) will require their warranty period to begin either when the customer takes possession, or by a certain time after the manufacturing date. As an example, Master Spas may require the warranty period to begin no later than 1 year after the spa was actually made. So let's say they had a 5 year warranty, that means that time period started sometime in 2005. Which would mean here in 2009, you'd be lucky to get a full year warranty out of it. Keep in mind that's just an example to express the warranty issue. The dealer may also tell you they will personally cover your warranty for whatever time period. That means nothing unless you trust that specific dealer to honor that. The fact that he's got a brand new 2004 that he hasn't been able to sell until today does make me wonder what's going on. I'm selling off all our 2008 Hot Spring stock right now, and haven't had even a 2007 model in inventory for several months.... I'd look at your Hot Spring dealer again myself. Sales style can vary from dealer to dealer, from salesperson to salesperson. So I'm sorry to hear you didn't like your representative's style. I can assure you though, any Hot Spring made spa is a much better product.

potpie it sounds more like Folliculitis to me. This is commonly called "hot tub rash" and is created by growth of a bacteria in your spa (specifically Pseudomonas). This is a bacteria that lives on our skin, and is introduced into the spa as we sit in it and sweat. Unfortunately for us, a hot water environment is the perfect breeding ground for this bacteria. And, when we soak in hot water our skin pores and hair follicles open up, thus allowing the bacteria to insert itself. Usually this is visually attested to by red bumps, which are irritating and itchy. This "rash" can last anywhere from a few days to a couple weeks. It's important that the infected person STAY OUT OF THE SPA until their rash is COMPLETELY gone, otherwise it will simply aggravate the condition, and help infect the spa further. If this is what your wife has, then you may be due for a super sanitization of the spa. This would include draining your spa, soaking your filters in a Chlorine bath solution, and refilling. If it's been recurring, she may also want to see a dermatologist (skin doctor) just to be sure. Although it's possible to have reactions to Chlorine or Bromine, I've found more often than not most skin irritations or rashes come from imbalances in the water (high pH/TA for instance), or bacteria/mold growths in the spa.

Over my years of experience, I've come to realize something. "Years of experience" doesn't necessarily mean you are doing it right. It just means you've been doing it the same way for years. I've seen this too. It's sad to see other dealers peddling Trichlor tablets to hot tub customers because it's easy, cheaper, and the water NEVER gets cloudy (course this is usually cause FC levels are sky high). Problem is, as already mentioned, it's very bad for pH/TA. Reality is, most hot tub manufacturers will void your warranty if they can show that you've used Trichlor tablets in your spa. potpie: There are several different variations of "Chlorine". Only one is really universally considered safe for use in a hot tub. This is commonly known as "Dichlor" Stay away from "Trichlor", Lithium Hypochlorite, Calcium Hypochlorite in your spa.

One of my co-workers uses those Scumballs and really enjoys them. She says she cleans hers, however you do indeed have to be careful that you get ALL the soap rinsed out. otherwise you'll get a soapy/foaming spa.

To help you trouble shoot I'll need more information. When you say it will "cut off" what exactly do you mean? Does the power light flash? Does the GFCI power cord or GFCI breaker turn to the Off or Tripped position? You mentioned when you turn on the spa, it cuts off. Does this mean it cuts off when you turn on the jets? Or do you mean "turn on" as in turning on power in general? (i.e. plugging it in, turning on breaker) What year is your Jetsetter? Is it powered 110V (plugs in) or 220v (has breaker box)?

As a Hot Spring dealer, I've found the best (and by far the most popular with my customers) cover lifter for any Hot Spring or Tiger River spa is the "Cover Cradle". For the Tiger River Bengal, I'd suggest the "Cover Cradle II" model. It physically mounts to the actual cover, and is gas spring assisted. These are the absolute easiest lifters I've seen. You should certainly be able to get into one of these for less than $500. Keep in mind, this Cover Cradle is made exclusively for Hot Spring brand spas, and won't attach to others. I'd say honestly, about 90% of our cover lifter sales are the Cover Cradle. The other 10% are the Covermate I and the Up-Rite. If you get your cover replaced, be sure it is replaced by an actual Hot Spring cover, as these are factory made with special metal brackets to allow the Cover Cradle to mount. If you get a replacement cover elsewhere, you'll likely be unable to have this modification made. Picture of Cover Cradle I Here's a link to the "Covermate" lifter, which is a less expensive alternative. http://www.leisureconcepts.com/main.php?page=14 Your cover weight issue is definitely a problem though, and could likely be the cause of the damage to your previous lifter. Most of these lifters are made of light weight materials and are not constructed in a manner that they can support a water soaked (100lb) cover. Usually when we see damage to cover lift systems it is found in conjunction with a water soaked cover that's become very heavy. I know that Hot Spring/Tiger River warrant theirs covers for 2 full years (assuming it has not been torn, poked, etc). This warranty date begins from the day you receive the spa.

Rob, I would honestly pick the Sovereign. Part of that is because I work with the Hot Spring brand personally, and know the product very well. The Hot Spring manufacturer makes an outstanding product, and I think you'll find dealer support from a Hot Spring dealer is typically better than you'd find elsewhere. Sundance does also make a very good product though. So you can't necessarily go wrong with either one. The Hot Spring line-up (that Sovereign) does have some advantages over the Sundance Hawthorne however. Here's a few things to consider: Bottom Floor Drain: This is so simple, but many customers buying a second spa tell me they wish their first spa had a drain that was on the FLOOR of the spa. This allows you to drain all the water out of the spa's interior without bailing out the last few inches. It's very simple, but not all spas are the same. Circulation Pump: Sundance now offers a "Circ Pump" option these days, but it's not quite the same. Hot Springs has been using a Circulation Pump for continuous filtration for a very long time. This allows the spa to heat continuously, as well as filter constantly, without using your large jet pump to do so. This not only saves on wear and tear (jet pump doesn't turn on/off all day/night) but uses much less energy. Most customers also tell me they chose a Hot Spring for this feature simply because you don't hear the spa turning on and off (especially if its near a master bedroom window). Energy Use: That Hawthorne is a full 545 gallons (Hartford is 470) according to the Sundance website. Compare that with only heating 355 gallons in a current Hot Spring Sovereign model. This will ultimately save you on some heating costs. Not to mention the previously noted energy savings mentioned with regards to the circulation pump. Cool Off Bench: As Angie noted, the Sovereign has a "cool off bench". Some folks really find these handy. Whether you simply just get to hot and need to cool off, or if you have smaller kids that can't sit in the adult seats. This elevated bench/seat can be quite handy for some folks. Controls: Some folks like the fact that the Sovereign has both Internal and External controls. You can operate jets and lights from inside the spa, and outside. Plus, the external control panel is mounted in a way that you can see/access it with the cover closed. This is nice in cold climates like here in Montana. When it's cold and snowy outside a customer can simply look out the window to their spa, and be reassured by the little Red and Green indicator lights on the control panel. Ozone: The Hot Spring Sovereign comes with a CD Ozone generator as well (it looks as though this is an option on the Sundance). Ozone is just fantastic for hot tubs. Without getting into to much detail, it'll reduce the amount of Chlorine you'll have to use to keep your spa clean. Plus, it breaks down Chloramines (which is what makes Chlorine smell) so the spa is much more friendly during use. The advantage to Hot Spring's setup, is that the Ozone generator is effective 24/7. Because the Sovereign circulates water 24/7, the ozone generator is also oxidizing the water 24/7. Since other spas cycle on and off, the ozone injection must also cycle on and off, therefore it isn't quite as effective. There's just a couple things I like about the Sovereign over the two Sundance models. I'm glad you guys love your Sovereign Angie!! And Kudos to you for soaking for an hour and a half!!!

Considering that the spa heats with the lid closed, the heater must be functioning. If this is the case, I'd suggest we start with removing the filters completely. This simply lets us rule out whether they are a contributing factor or not. If the spa returns to normal function with the filters removed, then we know they either need a good chemical cleaning, or need replaced. It is possible that dirty/old filters can restrict water flow just enough that the spa can't heat at its normal rate. Thereby it can heat the spa when the lid is closed, but once you take the lead off the water cools faster than it heats. So let's remove the filters just to rule this issue out. Your 1999 Hot Spring Grandee should be powered 220V. Can you check to make sure that both breakers (usually there is a 20amp and 30amp breaker powering the spa) are in the ON position? Also, have you ever looked inside the equipment compartment? If so, do you know which heater you have? Typically a heater in a hot tub either works, or it does not. You really don't see some that "sorta work". So if your spa heats at all, your heater is likely okay. If your spa heats up with the lid closed, does it heat up to your desired temperature? Can you tell if the water temperature is actually what you set it to? (For instance, you set it to 102 but it only heats to 90, etc) Are your RED and GREEN lights on? Flashing (and if so, which ones)? Also, you may want to make sure you don't have the "Summer Timer" turned on. Look at the control display (picture above) and see if there is an icon showing which looks like a "Sun". If you see this, your Summer Timer is on (this forces the spa to stop heating for several hours throughout the day). This feature should only be used in very hot climates during the summer. If the Summer Timer is on, you can disable it by Holding down the "+" and "-" Temp buttons simultaneously for 3 to 4 seconds. Let me know if any of this works.

Granted some of that change in KW usage can be random (watching TV more, etc), but the numbers you've posted are definitely excessive. If that spa is truly using 800KW/month, I'm shocked. Unfortunately though, some brands just don't provide enough insulation to keep the spa efficient in very cold weather. That's one reason why I'm sold on our Hot Spring spas frankly. This winter (December 2008) I intentionally disabled the heating ability on one of our spas from 6pm to 9am. At 9am when I reactivated the spa the temperature gauge at a local bank said it was currently -20F (twenty below zero). The spa's water temp went from 104 degrees to 100 degrees. We'd only lost 4 degrees on a -20F night here in Montana. Granted we did this test with our Hot Spring Grandee, which is a 500 gallon spa. With our current power costs up in Montana being $0.10 / KWh we can guarantee our customers this spa uses less than $30/month in electricity on average. That's just the difference between a heavily insulated spa, and one that isn't though I suppose. If you're within Costco's return policy as someone else suggested, you could look into returning it. Then you could go out and buy a higher quality spa, finance it, and make monthly payments and probably still be ahead of the game when you compare your energy cost differences. avasicek brought up a good point about filter cycles cooling the water too. Some spas actually pull in outside (cold) air to inject into your jet lines to make jets feel higher pressure. Others don't. Our spas actually use a 'heat shroud' to pull warm air off the pump and use that to inject into jets. So you're putting warm/hot air into warm/hot water, instead of pushing cold air into warm water. But not all spas filter the same either. Most of them do indeed use their jet pump to push water for those filter cycles, and so you'll be adding some cold air into the mix. Hot Spring in particular, uses a constant circulating pump to filter continuously, thereby eliminating the need for the larger jet pump to cycle throughout the day/night. Other manufacturers (such as Sundance) are catching on to this method now days as well.

Matt, Frankly, you'll generally find better quality products through your local dealers than through Costco. There's NOTHING wrong with buy products from Costco in general. I love that place! But I'd never buy a hot tub there myself. For me, the first reason is quality. Much better hot tubs can be found elsewhere. Will you pay more? Yes. But you ALWAYS pay more for quality. That's just how it is. Not only better insulated spas, but spas that have better equipment, are built more soundly, etc. The second reason for me, is service. Costco simply CANNOT provide you technical support for that hot tub. They'll deliver the spa to your property, but you're responsible for moving it into place and installing it. You're also generally responsible for troubleshooting the spa should you have problems. Because some of those spas are sold exclusively through Costco, it's also not as easy to find a hot tub dealer who services your brand effectively, let alone can deal with warranty issues. I'm a bit biased toward Hot Spring, being a Hot Spring dealer, but I'd suggest you find your Hot Spring dealer if you haven't. You WILL pay more, but I guarantee you'll be much happier. Ask your local dealer to tell you what's different with their spa compared to the one you're looking at. You'll be surprised how many things can be different. If you decide to buy a spa from Costco, just do so knowing that you may not have local support if/when problems arise.

Yeah Nature2 Silver Cartridges and Bromine don't play together. Either way, you'll want to drain your spa to correct the problem. The Sodium Bromide contained in the Bromine doesn't go away, and will interfere with the Nature2's ability to function properly. The Nature2 disolves silver ions into the water, which don't really go away either until you drain the spa, and will interfere with the Bromine's ability to function properly. Drain, refill, and choose either Bromine or Nature 2. Nature 2 works with Dichlor. If you still want to use Bromine, you can use the Spa Frog system, which uses a Bromine & Mineral cartridge that are designed to function together.

I guess what I should say is that the Ozone will deplete the Chlorine content which is in the Bromine. So you're right, the Sodium Bromide will remain in the water and can indeed be reactivated.

We usually recommend to folks to do exactly as our instructions showed. Which does mean draining the spa, refilling, then sanitizing it. The idea here, assuming you have a mold/bacterial type infection in the spa, is to get rid of the tainted water. Once refilled, you're now dealing with water that is nearly sanitary anyhow. This way all your Chlorine / Bromine can directly attack any mold growths which are living in the plumbing and equipment areas, without having to attack the water borne contaminants first. For us, this is a more sure way of ensuring the spa is truly sanitized completely. The Spa System Flush is then added prior to the last flush. This stuff is just awesome. If you've had your spa for any length of time (or someone else has) your water will probably get the dirtiest you've ever seen once you add the Spa System Flush. It does a VERY good job of breaking loose any build up (oil, mold, etc) within the plumbing system of the hot tub. Once you've drained again, you can rinse it out briefly and get it filled up again. Then you'll have a pristine clean spa for soaking in. Kudos to Hillbilly Hot Tub, although our instructions tell you to wipe down the under side of the cover, I didn't specifically mention that. He's right though. As water slowly absorbs into the foam core of the cover, you can begin finding a musty smell (let alone a heavy cover).

Dimension One's Listing for the Sarena Bay http://www.d1spas.com/spa_selector.asp?spa=46 The D1 site shows it being 50 or 40Amp for the current model. Ultimately, your best bet is to consult the owner's manual and see if it has wiring diagrams. These typically display the Amperage requirements. Otherwise, the best input should likely come from the actual Dimension One dealer, since they'd be most likely to have the most current specs. Something to keep in mind: Depending on your ambient temperatures, you may simply lose 3 degrees during your soak period. Also, with a 500 gallon spa your heater has a lot of water to keep warm in cold temperatures with your cover off. With jets running and creating aeration (some spas even pull outside air into jet lines to supply air pressure to jets) you're going to see some natural cool-down. Your spa may well be working like it should.

Based on the data from tests done by your local dealer here's what I'd do: Add 1/2 Cup + 1 Tablespoon Alkalinity Increaser (Or Baking Soda since it's the same thing) Add 2 teaspoons of pH Decreaser Couple notes: Digital Readers do need to be tested and calibrated occassionally. You'll want to check the manual/instructions that came with it new. Even without use, as the spa sits and heats, circulates, etc water conditions will change over time. Also, where you take the sample in the spa can alter your test results slightly. (i.e. sample from middle of spa 6" under water, versus surface water at the edge) Also, if you test your water while the jets are running (or right after shutting them off) you can return false readings as well.