Any Feedback On These Models

[tub4mom]

HI

We are looking into purchasing our second hot tub. These are the models and price quotes that we are considering. I live in the midwestern United States. I would appreciate any feedback on these models/companies if you have experience with them. Personally I liked the Caldera dealer the best, he was helpful and friendly.

Caldera Niagra $8495

Sundance Chelsee $8595

Sundance Optima $9295

These were the initial price quotes including steps, cover, lifter, delivery, set up and chemicals. We haven't done any negotiating over price yet. Does these seem like reasonable prices for these models? Where we live there is only one retailer that sells each brand.

Thanks

[kaseykent]

The Caldera Niagara is a great spa and that is a really great price for one, is a late model or something? The Niagara is nice for 2nd time owners because it doesn't have the full lounge, which doesn't get much use; but it does have the mini lounge which is really nice and actually very comfortable. Plus, the Niagara is the top of the line for Caldera, so you really can't beat it.

[spa_newb]

We looked at these same tubs, the Chelsee was in our price range. We also looked at the La Spa's Concord which we liked and was very affordable, and the Limelight Pulse. I can tell you are looking for the non lounger seating for 5 or 6, which is eactly what we want. In the end though the tub that wowed us the most was the Artesian Cypress Point.

The prices you mention are exactly what we were seeing here in MA about 6 months ago.

[tub4mom]

The Caldera Niagara is a great spa and that is a really great price for one, is a late model or something? The Niagara is nice for 2nd time owners because it doesn't have the full lounge, which doesn't get much use; but it does have the mini lounge which is really nice and actually very comfortable. Plus, the Niagara is the top of the line for Caldera, so you really can't beat it.

The price for the Niagra is for an 09 floor model and includes everything. It's "on sale" until Saturday. It is my favorite after wet testing but I had nothing to price compare it with since we have no other dealers around here.

[kaseykent]

The Caldera Niagara is a great spa and that is a really great price for one, is a late model or something? The Niagara is nice for 2nd time owners because it doesn't have the full lounge, which doesn't get much use; but it does have the mini lounge which is really nice and actually very comfortable. Plus, the Niagara is the top of the line for Caldera, so you really can't beat it.

The price for the Niagra is for an 09 floor model and includes everything. It's "on sale" until Saturday. It is my favorite after wet testing but I had nothing to price compare it with since we have no other dealers around here.

We are selling that same model for $9495, so I would definitely jump on it for that price. The economy is making us spa dealers explore some really good deals, so strike while the iron is hot! The Niagara is my favorite spa, because it has everything you could want in a spa and Caldera is a great brand as well; a brand that you can feel comfortable investing in.

[tub4mom]

I talked to the salesman again today and he didn't seem willing to come down in price at all but keeps offering to throw in more items to the package. So should I assume that is his bottom line price and agree to pay it or try to keep negotiating?

[spatech (the unreal one)]

I talked to the salesman again today and he didn't seem willing to come down in price at all but keeps offering to throw in more items to the package. So should I assume that is his bottom line price and agree to pay it or try to keep negotiating?

The only way to find out if you're getting the best price is to ask for a better one, and then ask again to be sure. Sometimes when it seems like they aren't budging you can instead of asking for a reduced price ask for store credit. When they give what they say is their final package you could say "OK, I'll give you the $xxxx you're asking but I'd like you to throw in $xxx in store credit" which you can use for chems and other things down the line. That is much more palatable to them than dropping the price up front that same amount. The pricing you're getting seems good so they may say no but it doesn't hurt to ask and it gives a better piece of mind than to wonder later if you could have haggled more.

[tub4mom]

I'm getting cold feet about making a decision so i'm going to hot springs tonight to try out the Vanguard. Anyone have any experience with this tub?

[tub4mom]

I really liked the feel of the HS Vanguard. They quoted me $8695 for everything on an 08 floor model. Of the same price for an 09 Tiger River Caspian. I am going back in a couple days to wet test it since they didn't have one in stock today. Is the HS a better deal for the money?

[billhill]

I'm getting cold feet about making a decision so i'm going to hot springs tonight to try out the Vanguard. Anyone have any experience with this tub?

I feel your pain. I'v been looking for about a month and a half now at all different brands

Sunrise, PDC, Dynasty, Jacuzzi, Dimension One, Hotsprings, Leisure Bay, Clearwater and read about a few others. Its amazing how some feel just right and the others don't. I wet tested an D1 amore bay and a dynasty eagle so far. The D1's seem to be highly touted on this forum and others, while Dynasties got a bad rap. I can honestly say that I thought the Dynasty to be a better fit. Deeper and cheaper. Wasn't crazy about the water displacement from the jets though.

Long term thoughts, I could not answer that question.

I plan on checking out the Artesian piper glen next.

I did dry sit a hotsprings. The back rests (moto jets I think) felt kinda flimsy and the fit just didn't seem right (for me anyway). Felt like I was sitting on the floor with my knees in up in my chest. The moto jets look like a nice feature on the website however.

I would say take your time in your choice of tub and wet test all that you might be interested in. Take everything that your salesman tells you with a grain of salt. I've had some be overly pushy and some let me walk right out the door without even confronting me. Like you I'm tentative about buying a tub right now. The allore of floor model 2008's and the urge to soak keeps pulling me right back in.

Good luck. Be sure to post how the Hotsprings wet test went

[billhill]

I'm getting cold feet about making a decision so i'm going to hot springs tonight to try out the Vanguard. Anyone have any experience with this tub?

I feel your pain. I'v been looking for about a month and a half now at all different brands

Sunrise, PDC, Dynasty, Jacuzzi, Dimension One, Hotsprings, Leisure Bay, Clearwater and read about a few others. Its amazing how some feel just right and the others don't. I wet tested an D1 amore bay and a dynasty eagle so far. The D1's seem to be highly touted on this forum and others, while Dynasties got a bad rap. I can honestly say that I thought the Dynasty to be a better fit. Deeper and cheaper. Wasn't crazy about the water displacement from the jets though.

Long term thoughts, I could not answer that question.

I plan on checking out the Artesian piper glen next.

I did dry sit a hotsprings. The back rests (moto jets I think) felt kinda flimsy and the fit just didn't seem right (for me anyway). Felt like I was sitting on the floor with my knees in up in my chest. The moto jets look like a nice feature on the website however.

I would say take your time in your choice of tub and wet test all that you might be interested in. Take everything that your salesman tells you with a grain of salt. I've had some be overly pushy and some let me walk right out the door without even confronting me. Like you I'm tentative about buying a tub right now. The allore of floor model 2008's and the urge to soak keeps pulling me right back in.

Good luck. Be sure to post how the Hotsprings wet test went

whoops didn't see your last post

[r5ran]

I really liked the feel of the HS Vanguard. They quoted me $8695 for everything on an 08 floor model. Of the same price for an 09 Tiger River Caspian. I am going back in a couple days to wet test it since they didn't have one in stock today. Is the HS a better deal for the money?

Hi, I wet tested Sundances, Jacuzzi, Tiger River, Limelights & Hot Springs for almost a year before I made the decision to get the Vanguard last August. While it's not perfect, I truly feel I made the right move! The Tiger River Caspian was my second choice. Now these are my opinions, I'm sure alot of people feel just as strongly about their tubs, too.

Here's a quick rundown:

Pros:

*Moto massage seats are fantastic, and make the H/S stand alone amongst tubs. Period. Never get tired of them and they never cause itching. The fact the VG has a single and a double is great. The single does a great job on your spine, while the double does a great job on your outer back section. Complete different feel between them. Neck jets are very strong too, almost too strong, but can be adjusted independently from the back jets.

*No diverters on the moto massage seats. These are the 2 main seats you will use most of the time anyways. Pump 1 runs both M/M seats at full power without stealing jets from each other or any other seats. This is a huge plus! Don't get caught by surprise on this issue. So many tubs can't run all the jets you want at the same time, so you end up stealing jets from one seat to feed another. Check this out in every seating combination you can wet testing, bring along or pretend you have the whole family in it, and make sure you can feed the seats you want when you want them. Even other higher end H/S tubs had this issue....wet test!

*Almost of the seats, between the outer rings or adjustable levers are adjustable individually. neck and back on both M/M seats are totally adjustable individually.....

*Not a single issue or even minor problem with it since installed, seems very well built.

BTW- built in USA, Limelights are made in Mexico now, I think.

*Despite being used every night and being outside in a very cold climate (off lake Superior) has cost about $10 (summer) to $25 February) a month heat. Maintains it's temp at 101 perfectly. No fluctuation of temp at all.

* Excellent filtration. I know many people dismiss the No bypass filter as marketing hype, and they may be right,but my water is over 4 months old and still is crystal clear with just a little Dichlor after each use. All I know is when I rinse the filters out after a couple months, the circulation pump filter has very little debris in it, but is coated fairly heavy with a light brown film form the constant water flow, while the other 4 filters have very little film on them but are full of all kinds of debris, (leaves, bugs, hair, etc...). The no bypass system seems to do a great job.

* Ozone and Electrical box are included in the price, only tub I know of that includes both at no charge.

*Rotary jets in side seat don't look like much, but are very strong and really give you heavy rubdown...

* Big cool down seat is great. I had read how many people thought this was a waste of seating space, and at first I agreed, but now we love it. Makes a very large and safe step to get in and out, and because it's so large, you can actually stretch out on it. My wife just loves it, and uses it all the time. She can't take the hot water for very long so she stretches out on it after just a few minutes in the tub. If it was smaller or not as comfortable, she would definitely be out of the tub much sooner. This was a surprise I was not expecting. You will use the cool down seat alot more than you think, even when it's really cold out.

* Very quiet motors, and has an easy to use inner and outer operator panel. Nice touch.

* Pillows are very soft and semi collapse to cushion your head. Very comfortable. LED lights under pillow give a nice lighting effect without having to turn on the main light at all.

* Full 5 year warranty on all components. have not needed it yet, but it's nice to know it's that long. I know the Limelight warranty is shorter, not sure about T/R.

Negatives:

* Those same LED lights in the pillow are on all the time, no way to turn them off. Not a big deal, but when star gazing, sometime you want total darkness, I plan on installing a switch this summer for them.

*Soothing Seven seat is weak, even at full power. My wife likes it, but I feel it needs more oomph and another jet added below the 2 soothing seven jets (like the one in the Grandee). Nice seat to relax in just before you get out, but....still needs more power.

* Waterfall is kind of wimpy..but we never even use it, so does not bother me at all.

* No temp read out on front panel. All H/S tubs are like this, though. Talked to my dealer, and was told since the circulation pump maintains the water at the set temp, their is not need to be concerned about the temp (does not fluctuate up and down at all, as tubs without a circulation pump can do). As long as the green light is on, the actual water temp is within a degree of your preset temp. We tested it, and it does work fine. I don't even miss it now, but it would be nice to have that choice.

* 10 jet seat looks great, but if you have it on full power, the small stationary jets have tendency to cause your skin to itch after a while. This is where the M/M seats are great as they do not cause itching at all. The 10 jet seat is what you find in most of the other tubs, (including the T/R and Limelight) and many low cost tubs. They look great, but actually does not feel that great.

*Calf jets on Moto Massage seat could be a little farther apart, you have to have your legs pretty close together for the calf jets to hit the back of both your legs equally. I usually stretch out anyways, so my legs get blasted by the large footwell jets. (dome in Caspian just tickled the bottom of my feet)

Again, these are my impressions after owning a VG since August. I am extremely pleased and would buy another VG in a minute if something happened to this one. Hot tubs are very personal,what I love you may hate, so wet test as much as you can.

As far as price? Well, in my case the Caspian with ozone was $1000 cheaper than the VG and I still bought the VG, and know it's worth every penny and more! So if your price is the same, just a model year 08 vs a 09? That's a no brainer to me!

Hope this helps, enjoy.

Randy

[tub4mom]

Thanks for all the feedback. We ended up getting the Vangaurd today--will be delivered in a couple weeks. I think we ended up getting a pretty good deal. Can't wait for the first real soak!

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Thanks for all the feedback. We ended up getting the Vangaurd today--will be delivered in a couple weeks. I think we ended up getting a pretty good deal. Can't wait for the first real soak!

Congrats, the toughest part is deciding which spa works best for you but after that you'll have other questions because sometimes it can be confusing THOUGH in reality caring for a spa is pretty simple once you get the hang of it. Stick around as this site is good about helping people after the sale as well.

[hottubdan]

I really liked the feel of the HS Vanguard. They quoted me $8695 for everything on an 08 floor model. Of the same price for an 09 Tiger River Caspian. I am going back in a couple days to wet test it since they didn't have one in stock today. Is the HS a better deal for the money?

Hi, I wet tested Sundances, Jacuzzi, Tiger River, Limelights & Hot Springs for almost a year before I made the decision to get the Vanguard last August. While it's not perfect, I truly feel I made the right move! The Tiger River Caspian was my second choice. Now these are my opinions, I'm sure alot of people feel just as strongly about their tubs, too.

Here's a quick rundown:

Pros:

*Moto massage seats are fantastic, and make the H/S stand alone amongst tubs. Period. Never get tired of them and they never cause itching. The fact the VG has a single and a double is great. The single does a great job on your spine, while the double does a great job on your outer back section. Complete different feel between them. Neck jets are very strong too, almost too strong, but can be adjusted independently from the back jets.

*No diverters on the moto massage seats. These are the 2 main seats you will use most of the time anyways. Pump 1 runs both M/M seats at full power without stealing jets from each other or any other seats. This is a huge plus! Don't get caught by surprise on this issue. So many tubs can't run all the jets you want at the same time, so you end up stealing jets from one seat to feed another. Check this out in every seating combination you can wet testing, bring along or pretend you have the whole family in it, and make sure you can feed the seats you want when you want them. Even other higher end H/S tubs had this issue....wet test!

*Almost of the seats, between the outer rings or adjustable levers are adjustable individually. neck and back on both M/M seats are totally adjustable individually.....

*Not a single issue or even minor problem with it since installed, seems very well built.

BTW- built in USA, Limelights are made in Mexico now, I think.

*Despite being used every night and being outside in a very cold climate (off lake Superior) has cost about $10 (summer) to $25 February) a month heat. Maintains it's temp at 101 perfectly. No fluctuation of temp at all.

* Excellent filtration. I know many people dismiss the No bypass filter as marketing hype, and they may be right,but my water is over 4 months old and still is crystal clear with just a little Dichlor after each use. All I know is when I rinse the filters out after a couple months, the circulation pump filter has very little debris in it, but is coated fairly heavy with a light brown film form the constant water flow, while the other 4 filters have very little film on them but are full of all kinds of debris, (leaves, bugs, hair, etc...). The no bypass system seems to do a great job.

* Ozone and Electrical box are included in the price, only tub I know of that includes both at no charge.

*Rotary jets in side seat don't look like much, but are very strong and really give you heavy rubdown...

* Big cool down seat is great. I had read how many people thought this was a waste of seating space, and at first I agreed, but now we love it. Makes a very large and safe step to get in and out, and because it's so large, you can actually stretch out on it. My wife just loves it, and uses it all the time. She can't take the hot water for very long so she stretches out on it after just a few minutes in the tub. If it was smaller or not as comfortable, she would definitely be out of the tub much sooner. This was a surprise I was not expecting. You will use the cool down seat alot more than you think, even when it's really cold out.

* Very quiet motors, and has an easy to use inner and outer operator panel. Nice touch.

* Pillows are very soft and semi collapse to cushion your head. Very comfortable. LED lights under pillow give a nice lighting effect without having to turn on the main light at all.

* Full 5 year warranty on all components. have not needed it yet, but it's nice to know it's that long. I know the Limelight warranty is shorter, not sure about T/R.

Negatives:

* Those same LED lights in the pillow are on all the time, no way to turn them off. Not a big deal, but when star gazing, sometime you want total darkness, I plan on installing a switch this summer for them.

*Soothing Seven seat is weak, even at full power. My wife likes it, but I feel it needs more oomph and another jet added below the 2 soothing seven jets (like the one in the Grandee). Nice seat to relax in just before you get out, but....still needs more power.

* Waterfall is kind of wimpy..but we never even use it, so does not bother me at all.

* No temp read out on front panel. All H/S tubs are like this, though. Talked to my dealer, and was told since the circulation pump maintains the water at the set temp, their is not need to be concerned about the temp (does not fluctuate up and down at all, as tubs without a circulation pump can do). As long as the green light is on, the actual water temp is within a degree of your preset temp. We tested it, and it does work fine. I don't even miss it now, but it would be nice to have that choice.

* 10 jet seat looks great, but if you have it on full power, the small stationary jets have tendency to cause your skin to itch after a while. This is where the M/M seats are great as they do not cause itching at all. The 10 jet seat is what you find in most of the other tubs, (including the T/R and Limelight) and many low cost tubs. They look great, but actually does not feel that great.

*Calf jets on Moto Massage seat could be a little farther apart, you have to have your legs pretty close together for the calf jets to hit the back of both your legs equally. I usually stretch out anyways, so my legs get blasted by the large footwell jets. (dome in Caspian just tickled the bottom of my feet)

Again, these are my impressions after owning a VG since August. I am extremely pleased and would buy another VG in a minute if something happened to this one. Hot tubs are very personal,what I love you may hate, so wet test as much as you can.

As far as price? Well, in my case the Caspian with ozone was $1000 cheaper than the VG and I still bought the VG, and know it's worth every penny and more! So if your price is the same, just a model year 08 vs a 09? That's a no brainer to me!

Hope this helps, enjoy.

Randy

The neat thing is on the cons a couple of them have been addressed on the 2009 models:

*Pillow lights can be turned off now.

*You can now read the actual temperature on the control panel.

[r5ran]

Thanks for all the feedback. We ended up getting the Vangaurd today--will be delivered in a couple weeks. I think we ended up getting a pretty good deal. Can't wait for the first real soak!

Congrats, Tub4mom! I don't think you will disappointed! I hope my feedback helped you make the right decision for you.

When you wet tested, did you find similar likes and dislikes as me, or were your thoughts totally different? What color combination did you end up getting?

We have the Pearl shell with the redwood exterior. Looks absolutely gorgeous, especially with the lights, or even better, with the sunshine on it! I was concerned about scratching with the Pearl versus the non glossy Sand color, but so far it has been very tough and very easy to clean.

Thanks, Randy

[tub4mom]

Thanks for all the feedback. We ended up getting the Vangaurd today--will be delivered in a couple weeks. I think we ended up getting a pretty good deal. Can't wait for the first real soak!

Congrats, Tub4mom! I don't think you will disappointed! I hope my feedback helped you make the right decision for you.

When you wet tested, did you find similar likes and dislikes as me, or were your thoughts totally different? What color combination did you end up getting?

We have the Pearl shell with the redwood exterior. Looks absolutely gorgeous, especially with the lights, or even better, with the sunshine on it! I was concerned about scratching with the Pearl versus the non glossy Sand color, but so far it has been very tough and very easy to clean.

Thanks, Randy

I got the same color combination as you. We bought the floor model so we didn't have as many options. I have a cedar deck and a brownish red patio that it will sit on. I can hardly wait to start soaking. In the end I really liked the moto massage jets and absolutely didn't want a lounger. And I liked how the diverts were next to each seat. We wet tested an HS envoy and you had to get out of your seat every time you wanted to use the diverter. My youngest child is 3 so I liked the cool down seat because it will be just right for her. The other think that impressed me was the filtration system. The waterfall is wimpy but i wasn't about to spend another $1000 to get a fancy waterfall when it is purely asthetic in my opinion. Thanks for all the input.

[new2spa]

Tub4mom,

How do you like the Vanguard? We are looking at one at our local HotSprings dealer too. Also, if you don't mind me asking, could you PM me and let me know how much yours cost? I believe our dealer has a deal right now for around 9500 (includes tax, delivery, electric box, chem kit, cover, lift, and radio). We don't know if this is really a great deal or not. Any spa feedback and price info is appreciated! Thanks!!