Pseudomonas

[Nitro]

I was talking to a friend of mine yesterday about his hot tub. He's been having serious issues with the water. Green, cloudy, smelly (like egg water), doesn't feel good etc. Also, his wife got a case of the rash a month ago. Apparently it looked like little bug bites. Sound familar?

Anyway, he was using the Cleanwater Blue system. He said he was following the directions, so I can't comment whether he was or not. However, his PH/TA was high. He has well water, with a really high alkalinity. He said he added a lot of acid, but could never really get the PH down in range. I told him he didn't add enough.

So, it looks like Nitro gets to do another decontamination. Yippy! That's two in one week.

I had him buy some Spa Flush and put it in this morning. He said, the water turned brown and slimey, which you can imagine. I'm going there tomorrow to finish the job. I'll add 1/2 gal of bleach and let her run for an hour. Drain, fill and start over.

However, I'm wondering if I should drain the brown slimey water, clean the spa and refill with fresh water before adding the bleach. Or, just add the bleach right to the slime pit. If I were doing it myself I would do it in two steps, drain, clean and refill before adding the bleach. But I need to get this done in one day, plus show him how to balance and sanitize his water correctly. Any opinions on this?

Also, I'm lucky enough to have good old Lake Michigan water which is balanced nicely. But he has pretty bad well water. I told him to buy a pre-filter to use when we fil it. However, is there anything else we can do to help the well water, like metal remover etc.?

Thanks

[tony]

I was talking to a friend of mine yesterday about his hot tub. He's been having serious issues with the water. Green, cloudy, smelly (like egg water), doesn't feel good etc. Also, his wife got a case of the rash a month ago. Apparently it looked like little bug bites. Sound familar?

Anyway, he was using the Cleanwater Blue system. He said he was following the directions, so I can't comment whether he was or not. However, his PH/TA was high. He has well water, with a really high alkalinity. He said he added a lot of acid, but could never really get the PH down in range. I told him he didn't add enough.

So, it looks like Nitro gets to do another decontamination. Yippy! That's two in one week.

I had him buy some Spa Flush and put it in this morning. He said, the water turned brown and slimey, which you can imagine. I'm going there tomorrow to finish the job. I'll add 1/2 gal of bleach and let her run for an hour. Drain, fill and start over.

However, I'm wondering if I should drain the brown slimey water, clean the spa and refill with fresh water before adding the bleach. Or, just add the bleach right to the slime pit. If I were doing it myself I would do it in two steps, drain, clean and refill before adding the bleach. But I need to get this done in one day, plus show him how to balance and sanitize his water correctly. Any opinions on this?

Also, I'm lucky enough to have good old Lake Michigan water which is balanced nicely. But he has pretty bad well water. I told him to buy a pre-filter to use when we fil it. However, is there anything else we can do to help the well water, like metal remover etc.?

Thanks

I would drain, fill, add bleach, drain and fill again. The brown slimy water will have a high chlorine demand as it is. This way you'll be sure.

[chem geek]

It sounds to me like he was using Cleanwater Blue by itself without enough shocking with either MPS or Dichlor. Also, the high pH would precipitate the copper causing the water (and scale) to be green.

Based on the reports of hot tub itch/rash/lung, my hunch at this point is that silver ion such as from Nature2 does a better job than copper-only as with Cleanwater Blue though neither are as good as a consistent chlorine level that isn't made too ineffective from too much Cyanuric Acid (CYA). Silver plus MPS residual may be good, but most people don't soak with either an MPS nor a chlorine residual. If one really wants to use a metal ion system as a backup or supplement in case the sanitizer gets too low, then N2 or any silver (or silver plus copper) equivalent would seem to be the better than a copper-only system, especially if MPS is used regularly (and of course, if chlorine levels are normally maintained then that is best).

By the way, the EPA registration for Cleanwater Blue (as referred to on the EcoOne website here) appears to be a standard copper registration as a pesticide (as shown in this list possibly via the copper sulfate task force) and not as a disinfectant for pools/spas (see this link). To my knowledge, the only EPA registrations under DIS/TSS-12 are for chlorine, bromine, PHMB/biguanide/Baquacil, and maybe silver ion in conjunction with MPS at high (i.e. spa) temperatures. Of course, the efficacy test for DIS/TSS-12 is a joke since the test does not use real CYA levels when testing chlorine so it is stricter than it needs to be.

Richard

[Nitro]

It sounds to me like he was using Cleanwater Blue by itself without enough shocking with either MPS or Dichlor. Also, the high pH would precipitate the copper causing the water (and scale) to be green.

Based on the reports of hot tub itch/rash/lung, my hunch at this point is that silver ion such as from Nature2 does a better job than copper-only as with Cleanwater Blue though neither are as good as a consistent chlorine level that isn't made too ineffective from too much Cyanuric Acid (CYA). Silver plus MPS residual may be good, but most people don't soak with either an MPS nor a chlorine residual. If one really wants to use a metal ion system as a backup or supplement in case the sanitizer gets too low, then N2 or any silver (or silver plus copper) equivalent would seem to be the better than a copper-only system, especially if MPS is used regularly (and of course, if chlorine levels are normally maintained then that is best).

By the way, the EPA registration for Cleanwater Blue (as referred to on the EcoOne website here) appears to be a standard copper registration as a pesticide (as shown in this list possibly via the copper sulfate task force) and not as a disinfectant for pools/spas (see this link). To my knowledge, the only EPA registrations under DIS/TSS-12 are for chlorine, bromine, PHMB/biguanide/Baquacil, and maybe silver ion in conjunction with MPS at high (i.e. spa) temperatures. Of course, the efficacy test for DIS/TSS-12 is a joke since the test does not use real CYA levels when testing chlorine so it is stricter than it needs to be.

Richard

Well he said he was using the Dichlor once a week and MPS after every soak, which was about once a week. I'm not too familar with that system, but that's what the directions say.

Personally, I don't trust metal systems. I think it's the same as playing around a cliff. You may not fall, but if you get too careless you will. They might work ok for an experienced user, but I don't think these systems should be used by newbies.

I plan on teaching him your Dichlor/Bleach method. I told him about it already, and he said he would be willing to test and add bleach everyday so long as the water stays maintained with no problems. And it means getting his wife off his back. He said they would use the tub more often if the water was nice and safe.

[WaterBeast]

Before you do 2 fills in one day on a well, you might ask if your friend has ever run his well 'out'. Some wells have less capacity than others. Once one is run out you may need to wait for that portion of the acquifer to recharge. This could be minutes, hours, or days.

[Nitro]

Before you do 2 fills in one day on a well, you might ask if your friend has ever run his well 'out'. Some wells have less capacity than others. Once one is run out you may need to wait for that portion of the acquifer to recharge. This could be minutes, hours, or days.

Thanks for the tip. I'll be sure to ask him. I don't think his wife would be too happy if they ran out of water for a day or two.