Newbie Questions... Arctic Spa, Ozonator, Genesis Salt Water System

[aidensmom02]

We have just bought an Arctic Spa. It is in place (concrete pad and forever floor) and filled with water. My electrician comes today to hook up power to the spa. We have an ozonator and a genesis salt water system in it. I went through the company's mini spa school and the details are already a little fuzzy...

I was provided a test kit that tests CL/BR and PH. I was also provided Sodium Bromide Test Strips. The chemicals provided are Genesis Tru-Blu (Bromide Salt Solution), SpaBoss Spa-Shock, SpaBoss pH Booster, and SpaBoss pH Reducer.

I tested the Sodium Bromide with the test strips they provided (Genesis test strips) and it reads the Sodium Bromide PPM at 67 BEFORE adding any Genesis Tru-Blu salt 'stuff'... sorry, total newbie! According to the book provided I need to add 7.7 L of the Tru-Blu to the spa to start the system. 1476L (tub capacity) divided by 190L equals 7.7 L of Tru-Blu.

I also tested the PH and it was totally off the scale (high end - acidic).

Instructions given (that I remember) were to set the Genesis dial at 10 and add 3 bottles of the Tru-Blu. I was specifically told that I don't want to add too much as it is difficult to lower, but easy to raise. I was told to test daily and adjust the dial one number up if I was one level too high with the test kid and one number down if I was one level too low with the test kit. Same goes for pH, test daily and add one teaspoon of boost for every level I am low OR one teaspoon of reducer for every level I am too high. I was also told to add one teaspoon of Spa-Shock weekly and run a boost cycle (1 min all jets on high - 3 pumps, then 45 minutes of pump 1 on low) and no one in the tub during that time. All of this made sense to me.

The Genesis book tells me I should balance my spa water to the recommended levels:

pH: 7.2 - 7.8

Total Alkalinity: 100 - 120 ppm

Calcium Hardness: 150 - 200 ppm

Phosphate level: less than 125 ppm

Questions:

1. Is there a specific order that chemicals have to go in upon start up?

2. Do I need to balance pH BEFORE I add the Tru-Blu?

3. 7.7 L of Tru-Blu is 3.5 bottles of the four he left me... should I start with 3 and go from there?

4. How soon do I test the water after adding Tru-Blu to see if I need to add more of it for the TDS to equal ~2000ppm?

5. How do I test Alkalinity, Calcium hardness and phosphate levels?

6. Is there anything else I should know or test kits I should have?

Sorry, obviously a total newbie... if anyone can help with any of these questions or comment or give pointers that would be fantastic!

Edited to add: I was also told to change the cycling feature from 8 hours to every 4 hours.

Thanks,

Jen

[Newbie4Now]

Just wondered if you'd heard from anyone yet -- many of my initial posts were answered by private messages (my own theory is that some of the more competent members are as tired as we newbies quickly become of having posts turned into senseless, drawn-out spats that tend to bore everyone except the combatants ! )

At least that's been my experience on the other side of the pool, maybe here in "Water Chemistry" everyone plays nicer...

I'm curious if your OZONE system is the ARCTIC Ozone or PEAK Ozone. My own dealer (with whom I'm still negotiating) has suggested that with the PEAK Ozone system, the Salt Generation system (little misnomer there) is unecessary. Did you hear anything different ?

Good look with your routine -- I remember learning pool chemistry was tricky at first but soon became pretty elementary. Although a post like yours (especially since I looking hard at the ARCTIC tubs) makes me more than a little nervous...

This stuff just seems a bit more complicated...

"Edited to add:" Sorry I missed your last note. I suppose if you are setting specific filtering cycles, you probably have the PEAK Ozone system ?

[Whoneedsavacation]

Just wondered if you'd heard from anyone yet -- many of my initial posts were answered by private messages (my own theory is that some of the more competent members are as tired as we newbies quickly become of having posts turned into senseless, drawn-out spats that tend to bore everyone except the combatants ! )

Yes and I wonder if they realize exactly how far away from their respective businesses it makes us want to run!

[aidensmom02]

Just wondered if you'd heard from anyone yet -- many of my initial posts were answered by private messages (my own theory is that some of the more competent members are as tired as we newbies quickly become of having posts turned into senseless, drawn-out spats that tend to bore everyone except the combatants ! )

At least that's been my experience on the other side of the pool, maybe here in "Water Chemistry" everyone plays nicer...

I'm curious if your OZONE system is the ARCTIC Ozone or PEAK Ozone. My own dealer (with whom I'm still negotiating) has suggested that with the PEAK Ozone system, the Salt Generation system (little misnomer there) is unecessary. Did you hear anything different ?

Good look with your routine -- I remember learning pool chemistry was tricky at first but soon became pretty elementary. Although a post like yours (especially since I looking hard at the ARCTIC tubs) makes me more than a little nervous...

This stuff just seems a bit more complicated...

"Edited to add:" Sorry I missed your last note. I suppose if you are setting specific filtering cycles, you probably have the PEAK Ozone system ?

We have the Arctic Ozone System.

My dad is highly reactive to chemicals in the water or possibly the additives they put into chemicals after reading more here about it. I wanted a fairly chemical free tub so that he could still enjoy it to.

Since I got no responses, I just went ahead and added everything at the same time. Three bottles (6L) of the bromine salt solution is all I needed to get my TDS to read at a perfect 2100 ppm.

I've been adding one tablespoon of ph booster for 2 days and finally added 4 tbsp on the 3rd day. I had to add one tbsp of ph reducer yesterday afternoon and now the pH is perfect.

We've been in the tub everyday and I've added 1 tbsp of spashock every day after getting out and then running a boost cycle (jets on for 45 min to cycle). The spashock also helps to get the Bromine leves where they need to be as well.

My pH and Bromine levels are now perfect on the 5th day.

We were told that they had some issues with the Peak Ozone and that it wasn't really worth the money... this was last year, so things could have changed since then.

The Bromine solution turns into chlorine and then when it's done being used it turns back into salt. It's great and really simplifies things for balancing the tub and keeps unwanted chemicals out of my tub.

Answers to my questions...

1. Add all the chemicals at the same time.

2. No, you do not need to balance pH before adding other chemicals

3. Start with the amount they tell you, it's perfect.

4. Run a boost cycle (1 min high speed and then 45 minutes low speed jets - automatic cycle on your tub), then test... TDS should be 2000 - 2200 ppm.

5. Still don't have the answer to this one or even if it's that important.

Sorry, if my post made it sound really difficult. It does sound complicated, but it's been really easy to maintain and balance.

[Newbie4Now]

[...]

It does sound complicated, but it's been really easy to maintain and balance.

Thanks for the info -- "real world" posts like this are greatly appreciated...

Here's where I'm at.

Because my ARCTIC dealer is more of a "say whatever I think you want to hear" type person

I've been confused about water chemistry from the day I started looking at spas.

I fell in with a local (pool product/service) gal when I bought a house which had a (first for me) pool

and spent a year learning all about pool chemistry. Now, (6 years later - in a different house)

it is so elementary I never even think about it and haven't had a

"chemical/biological problem" in over 4 years.

SPAS seem tougher. Let's face it -- you're basically taking a bath in water that doesn't get changed (!)

Coupled with the heat, the small pool of water, the sensitivity of parts (and of people) to chemicals, etc. -- this search of mine (shopping for hot tubs over the last 3 months) has been WORSE THAN TRYING TO BUY A NEW CAR. [so sorry for using an over-used phrase, but as my speech coach used to say, "cliches are only cliches because they are true..."

The BEST DEALER in my area seems to be a dealer who handles PACIFIC SPAS.

[39 years in the business, extensive service department]

and his recommendation (today) was :

- "avoid ozone"

- "use the (salt-based) bromine generator"

- "add UV bacterial treatment"

and "this is the best water treatment [in conjunction with the filters] you can get..."

I'll post this info shortly in a separate topic to draw out the discussion, but needless to say

(as this was the first time I'd heard a dealer talk down OZONE)

I can't wait to hear responses from "the crowd."

BUT -- I believe ARCTIC to be a "top-tier" player, so

HAPPY HOT TUBBING (!)

[Artic Cub]

I've owned my Artic about 2 years now. I was told the Upgrade Ozone wasn't worth the $, since the basic does the job. (I also have a cub, which is 7x7). I was also told the Salt system wasn't necessary and just another alternative....

I used a Bromide system which worked well, then switched to Baqua. Baqua chewed up my jets, and other than feeling silky smooth, I found it had baque-goo build up far too easy. I switched back to Bromide tablets a few months back, and my water has been crystal clear with no issues and easy to balance. I have a 3 and 5 yr old and they go back and forth constantly from the POOL to the tub 4+ times a week.

I would recommend Bromide for other users who want to keep it simple. Look for one of my posts a few months ago, the water tech guys were great providing summary information without getting to technical......

[Newbie4Now]

Thanks ARCTIC CUB --

Your post typifies what I love about this forum

(and why I weep for what has been happening lately...)

[the monster that lurks...]

I'm not going to discuss the ongoing process I'm currently in -- choosing a tub I'm happy with --

but I will say - at the risk of repeating myself -

I'm happy you've found a great tub and

I hope you will join me in trying to "stick it out" as an OWNER

and continue providing valuable input to other shoppers/owners/technicians and sales staff...

Rather than promoting another SPA/POOL board, why don't the members here stand up,

demand some proper oversight, and create the best darn forum for potential buyers and owners

right here at P&S ?

/ "Just my 2 cents"

[waterbear]

A few facts....a salt bromine generator does not reduce the chemicals in the water. You are just manufacturing them instead of adding them. It's really more of a convience factor than anything else. Bromine is a known sensitizer and many people do develop an allergy to it! Much more so than chlorine!

As far as ozone and bromine systems--ozone does cause bromates to form in the water and bromates are a suspected carcinogen in drinking water (but nothing concrete has ever been published that I have been able to find about any dangers in spa water.) This is the main negative about ozone and bromine systems.

Ozone, chlorine, or non chlorine shock will make the bromine levels rise if there is sodium bromide in the water. This is true if you have a bromine generator or not. It's normal bromine chemistry. Bromide ions are oxidized into hypobromous acid, the active bromine sanitizer. The Brormine generator is actually generating hypobrmous acid directly. You still add the non chlorine shock to bump up the bromine levels by converting some of the bromide ions into hypobromous acid also.

[aidensmom02]

A few facts....a salt bromine generator does not reduce the chemicals in the water. You are just manufacturing them instead of adding them. It's really more of a convience factor than anything else. Bromine is a known sensitizer and many people do develop an allergy to it! Much more so than chlorine!

As far as ozone and bromine systems--ozone does cause bromates to form in the water and bromates are a suspected carcinogen in drinking water (but nothing concrete has ever been published that I have been able to find about any dangers in spa water.) This is the main negative about ozone and bromine systems.

Ozone, chlorine, or non chlorine shock will make the bromine levels rise if there is sodium bromide in the water. This is true if you have a bromine generator or not. It's normal bromine chemistry. Bromide ions are oxidized into hypobromous acid, the active bromine sanitizer. The Brormine generator is actually generating hypobrmous acid directly. You still add the non chlorine shock to bump up the bromine levels by converting some of the bromide ions into hypobromous acid also.

From reading here, I had gathered that I would be avoiding the byproducts and preservatives that come with tablets. I was under the impression using a salt bromine generator would help eliminate those issues? Is that not correct? I was also told that the bromine solution would manufacture chlorine, but that when it was done it would simply go back into it's salt form instead of a byproduct that would be irritating to my tub and the users in it.

My parents have an arctic tub that is ~ 10 years old. They stopped using chemicals years ago and all they ever do is add 1 cup of chlorine bleach and run a jet cycle when they get out of the tub. They use their tub once a week. They are the only two people in it and I don't believe that they ever test the water. My grandparents have been doing the same thing with their tub for more than 15 years. How do these practices promote clean water and are they safe?

Thanks.

[Newbie4Now]

Been following this thread for a while and just wanted to add my interest in the last set of questions...

WATERBEAR, can you help us out on this?

/ Many thanks in advance !