Newbie Questions Regarding Nature-2 (long Post..sorry)

[New2spas]

I've been lurking in the background, and have now read enough on this forum to be dangerous... sorry for the long post. I am just trying to figure out if I am heading for trouble with my Nature-2 approach and figure out a corrective action it I am. BTW I appreciate all this forum has done already for my understanding of this somewhat complex subject. Well here goes... please be kind....

I filled my spa for the first time about 2 months ago (yes I am a newbie to this whole water chemistry stuff) using Nature 2, actually Sundance’s version made by the Nature 2 folks, and so far all is well. As recommended by the dealer, I am using MPS regularly. Maintaining in the “okay” zone on my test strips (I know I need a test kit). I checked the TA, pH and Hardness (again using a test strip), and all was well. I used Dichlor at start-up to “activate” the Nature-2 system, but have not shocked since. I run an Ozonator with a 24-hr circulation pump system. And the spa stays covered pretty much all the time during the day, as I only use it at night. The user load is light with my wife and I using it about every other night or so. The water has been clear, and smells fine. The “Micro II” filter, which is used in combination with the 24-hr circulation pump (on the Sundance Spa) has started to turn a light brown color (I assume this is residual organic matter?). I’ve cleaned the main (pleated filter) as it was a bit dingy looking; not brown, just not nice and white like it was when it was new.

After reading many posts on this forum I am now expecting a catastrophic melt-down of my Nature-2 system any day now.

From what I’ve been able to gather from this forum, I am living on the edge. From what I’ve read, I suspect I should probably get a real test kit (Taylor 2006), and should be running 1-2 ppm of Free Chlorine in combination with the Nature-2 system. This would require me to then keep an eye on Combined Chlorine and shock as needed. Does that sound about right?

I’m going to stir the pot a bit…..Okay here is the (postulated) mode that I think (hope) I’ve been operating in….I used an initial dose of Dichlor to activated the Nature-2 system, and in addition this did an initial purge of whatever micro organisms were present at the time. Since then during normal use the Nature-2 system has been able to keep up with the sanitizing (assuming my fairly mild user load). The ozonator and the MPS that I have been adding regularly have been oxidizing the organic matter. I haven’t seen a need to shock since the water has been clear and smells fine. Okay, time for a reality check ….. I’ve put down my defenses and ask what’s wrong with this scenario?

I also have a few questions for the experts …..

1) I’ve read that mineral-based systems (eg Nature 2), are not recognized by the EPA for sanitization, and have been referred to(on this forum) as “too slow”, and cannot be used alone without a (EPA recognized) sanitizer’

My question is why not? Is it because they are not fast enough, or not thorough enough? .... if the kill rate of micro organisms is faster than the growth rate isn’t that all that matters?… wouldn’t it eventually sanitize?… baring getting over some irreversible threshold limit perhaps?

2) Shocking question: According to the RHTubs website: “(Ozonators) reduces, and can even eliminate the need for shocking…” If I maintain a constant level of MPS (which I do) is this true? Since I run an extremely low level of chlorine, as I am not adding any, I shouldn’t have an issue with combined chlorine or organic matter (since the MPS and the ozonator should take care of that). I’ve thus far not hit the “as needed” point yet for having to shock… at least as far as water quality goes. If I start upping the Chlorine levels then I guess I will need to start shocking to take care the combined chlorine.

As I understand it MPS prevents formation of combined chlorine (by oxidizing organics before they can combine with FC) and does not convert combined Chlorine…. So why then would you consider using MPS as a shock treatment? Couldn’t you maintain a constant level of MPS and never have to shock (using MPS)? Realizing that you may need to shock with Chlorine to convert Combined Chlorine.

I do appreciate any thoughts you folks would care to share ....

[waterbear]

copper and silver have very slow kill times for pathgens compared to chlorine and bromine. In an open system like a spa fast kill times are a necessity if you want santized water. Every bather that enters the tub intorducec sweat, urine (the two are almost identical chemically, btw) and feces into the water. Add to that anything that might drop into the water while it is being used (such as from a bird flying overhead for example) and you will see why fast kill times are needed.

If you do not have chlorine in the water you will not have any chloramines. That does not mean there are not orgaincs and ammonia compounds in the water. If you add chlorine and you do get chloramines then it means that your oxidation from the ozone and the MPS has not been enough to keep the organics under control.

[djs]

copper and silver have very slow kill times for pathgens compared to chlorine and bromine. In an open system like a spa fast kill times are a necessity if you want santized water. Every bather that enters the tub intorducec sweat, urine (the two are almost identical chemically, btw) and feces into the water. Add to that anything that might drop into the water while it is being used (such as from a bird flying overhead for example) and you will see why fast kill times are needed.

If you do not have chlorine in the water you will not have any chloramines. That does not mean there are not orgaincs and ammonia compounds in the water. If you add chlorine and you do get chloramines then it means that your oxidation from the ozone and the MPS has not been enough to keep the organics under control.

Waterbear,

What's the best way to chemically treat a hottub if you have an ozonator on a 24 hour circ. pump, and use liquid chlorine for an AGP? What's your recommendation?

djs