Some Newbie Questions

[sjoefl01]

I have been fighting a chlorine level problem this summer and keep having recurring green algae problems.

1. I have chlorinator that takes 5 three inch clorine tablets. It is turned up all the way and it takes about a month before the tablets are used up. Is this normal?

2. The pool water is crystal clear right now but I have floating dead algae that just wont sink. I tried a clarifier that usually works really well but it did nothing. What is up with that?

[CrazyPoolMom]

You need to give all of your tests results or no one is really going to know what the deal is.

FC

CC

PH

TA

TH

CYA

If you do not already have a test kit for all of this, other than strips, it would be a good idea to take a sample to a pool store until you can get a kit.

[sjoefl01]

I think I have determined based on reading and talking to folks that I have a problem with my chlorinator. It turns out that most folks use a lot more chlorine tablets than I do. I have been here for a year now and I have used less than a $50 bucket of chlorine tablets. I have been steady having to crank liquid and stabilizer into the pool. It makes perfect sense to me. I always let the people test my water and tell me what I needed and it was always chlorine and stabilizer. When I realized that the tablets were supposed to include stabilizer and that my chlorine was always low. I had the answer.

[CrazyPoolMom]

Well the thing is, you really need to know what your levels are, because the more stabilizer you have in your pool, the more free chlorine it takes to keep the pool sanitary and the more it takes also to shock the pool to get rid of combined or used up chlorine. Someone named Ben from another forum made a chart showing these numbes:

Stabilizer . . . . . . Min. FC . . . . Max FC . . . 'Shock' FC

=> 0 ppm . . . . . . . 1 ppm . . . . . 3 ppm . . . . 10 ppm

=> 10 - 20 ppm . . . . 2 ppm . . . . . 5 ppm . . . . 12 ppm

=> 30 - 50 ppm . . . . 3 ppm . . . . . 6 ppm . . . . 15 ppm

=> 60 - 90 ppm . . . . 5 ppm . . . . . 10 ppm . . .. 20 ppm

=> 100 - 200 ppm . . . 8 ppm . . . . . 15 ppm . . .. 25 ppm

So if you are having algae problems, it is likely you might actually have too much stabilizer in the pool. Like if your Stabilizer level is over 100, and you are only using enough chlorine to get the total level to 3ppm, then you end up with algae sometimes because there is not enough free chlorine in the water.

It does sound like something is wrong with the chlorinator, but you really need to give a set of numbers still.

[sjoefl01]

I want to thank the people here for the answers. I live in a small town and don't have much confidence in the pool stores. Right now the pool is beautiful and crystal clear. I still have a little resistant dead algae that floats when the pump is running. When I turn the pump off it sinks in about an hour. I vacuumed it to waste last night and still had a little this morning. I don't know if it is new, or if I just didn't do a good job removing it.

Here are then numbers from yesterday. The test was early in the morning after shocking the night before.

Total alkalinity 130

PH 7.6

Cyanuric Acid 14

Free Chlorine 1.33

Total Chlorine 1.63

The pool is vinyl and about 35000 gallons with a cartrige filter. I have been running the pump 24/7 for about a month now and keepin the filters clean. I have been adding 2.5 to 5 gallons of chlorine about twice a week. Yesterday I replaced the gasket and hose on the auto chlorinator. I don't fully understand how it works but it appears to operate on some sort of vacuum/siphon principal. I also changed pool stores. I found one that didn't try to sell me agaecide or other expensive chemicals. They think when I get the chlorine straight I wont have a problem. I shocked it last night and I am adding a couple of pounds of stabilizer today. I am going to take another sample on Monday. I don't want to get too crazy with the stabilizer.

I have another unrelated question::

I have read quite often that you don't need calcium for vinyl pools. Before I read this I was adjusting the calcium and did notice that it made the water feel really good and it didn't dry the skin. It is fairly cheap to maintain. What, exactly is the problem with calcium and vinyl pools?

Well the thing is, you really need to know what your levels are, because the more stabilizer you have in your pool, the more free chlorine it takes to keep the pool sanitary and the more it takes also to shock the pool to get rid of combined or used up chlorine. Someone named Ben from another forum made a chart showing these numbes:

Stabilizer . . . . . . Min. FC . . . . Max FC . . . 'Shock' FC

=> 0 ppm . . . . . . . 1 ppm . . . . . 3 ppm . . . . 10 ppm

=> 10 - 20 ppm . . . . 2 ppm . . . . . 5 ppm . . . . 12 ppm

=> 30 - 50 ppm . . . . 3 ppm . . . . . 6 ppm . . . . 15 ppm

=> 60 - 90 ppm . . . . 5 ppm . . . . . 10 ppm . . .. 20 ppm

=> 100 - 200 ppm . . . 8 ppm . . . . . 15 ppm . . .. 25 ppm

So if you are having algae problems, it is likely you might actually have too much stabilizer in the pool. Like if your Stabilizer level is over 100, and you are only using enough chlorine to get the total level to 3ppm, then you end up with algae sometimes because there is not enough free chlorine in the water.

It does sound like something is wrong with the chlorinator, but you really need to give a set of numbers still.

[CrazyPoolMom]

I think all that you need is chlorine too. Just watch that Bens Best Guess Chart and add enough to keep your FC in line with your CYA, until you can hold the chlorine levels all night without losing FC. When the sun isn't shining like at night, and you lose FC it means you are fighting something like algae. You are right to be cautious about that CYA level. Sometimes that stuff takes up to a week to dissolve, but I think a lot depends on the brand. I put the right amount of the hth walmart brand into a sock and was dissolving, expecting it to take a week, and I had the level that I wanted in 1 day and most of the sock was still full of CYA, so I would have really over done it had I not checked that first day I am thinking. Others have reported some brands never raising the level at all.

It's odd that after shocking you had CC left, usually it is 0 after shocking, so you may not have gotten your levels quite high enough for a complete shock. Sometimes chemicals lose their potency, so you think you are getting enough in there for a shock but really are not. There is a calculator over at troublefreepool.com that shows you exactly how much of each chemical you need to raise levels of FC, PH, etc, based on the number of gallons in your pool. It's called Jasons Calculator. It would be a really good idea to check out that site and find that link. And they are selling a really good test kit over there too. That way you do not have to depend on the pool stores.

I do not know anything about calcium:(.

[Strannik]

I have another unrelated question::

I have read quite often that you don't need calcium for vinyl pools. Before I read this I was adjusting the calcium and did notice that it made the water feel really good and it didn't dry the skin. It is fairly cheap to maintain. What, exactly is the problem with calcium and vinyl pools?

The problem with calcium only exists in concrete pools. If the water doesn't have enough calcium it will start leeching it out of the walls, and this will corrode them. Because your pool is vinyl, there is no calcium that can be taken out

[sjoefl01]

Thanks Pool Mom,

I got new numbers this morning. I had added 3 lbs cyanuric yesterday and nothing else.

TA: 130

PH: 7.4

Cyanuric: 38

FC: 4.2

TC 4.4

This was without shocking since Saturday night so it held some chlorine although it did use up some. Do you think I am still killing something? The water is beautiful except for dead algae. When you turn the pump off it clears in about an hour and is gorgeous.

I am going to shock it tonight . I am going to get one of the test kits so it is easier to monito the chemicals.

[Strannik]

can't you just vacuum clean all the dead algae?

[sjoefl01]

I hate to admit it but I really need to get a better vac. I have a nice cleaner machine and a really sorry vac that sucks itself to the bottom and flips all around. Before you can get the pool claened up you have dumped half the water ( exageration, of course ) in the street. By my calculations I have a bout a dollar a gallon ( another exageration, of course ) in this water and don't like watching it go in the street.

I have come up with this really idiot plan of skimming to waste where I will turn off the bottom drain and push the top onto the street through the skimmers.

To be perfectly honest I just haven't had time. I work crazy hours and only see the pool when I add chemicals.

[sjoefl01]

I have another quick question. I am looking at a TF100 kit and a K2006. The K2006 is a few bucks cheaper but not significant. They look like they perform the sames tests. Does anybody have input about which one they like?

[chem geek]

I have another quick question. I am looking at a TF100 kit and a K2006. The K2006 is a few bucks cheaper but not significant. They look like they perform the sames tests. Does anybody have input about which one they like?

The TF100 is a better value because it contains more logical volumes of reagents (such as for the CYA test). With the K-2006, you'll end up ordering more reagents in an unusual order. I still have my K-2006, but will likely switch over as I run out of reagents. As for differences in tests, the TF100 has an OTO test in addition to the FAS-DPD test for chlorine (so you can do quick tests with OTO when accuracy isn't needed) and the K-2006 has acid/base demand reagents that hardly anyone uses since they are not sensitive enough (I sometimes use them to force the pH colors to move one way or the other if I'm not sure of the color). Also, the CYA test in the TF100 measures down to 20 ppm while the K-2006 only measures down to 30 ppm.

Either way, you won't go wrong and the reagents are interchangeable between the two kits.

Richard

[sjoefl01]

Outstanding, Thank you. I was reading some reviews and it looked like the TF 100 was the way to go. It is better to hear it from the experts.