Whoneedsavacation Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 I tried doing some searches, but didn't quite find what I was looking for. Apologies if this has been covered a million times... We just got a new spa (Freeflow Passport) and are loving it! We've had it for 4 whole days. The startup chemical kit that came with it was Leisure Time bromine tablet based. The guy who set it up tossed like 5 tablets into the filter well and said to test the water in a week. The packet of sodium bromide also went in, as did the Metal Gon. He said a floater wasn't necessary. So, I tested the water yesterday. The bromine was at the high end of the strip. The calcium was below optimal. The pH/alkalinity were in the optimal zone. So here come the dumb questions... What is the difference between pH and total alkalinity? Don't they go hand in hand? Are all bromine tablet systems essentially the same? Should I stick to one brand between water changes, or at least a label-identical product? Can I do anything about the very high bromine level aside from wait for it to go down? Should I do something about low calcium? Why would "soft" water be bad? Is it really OK to just toss the tablets in the filter well? Or should we use the floater? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterbear Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 I tried doing some searches, but didn't quite find what I was looking for. Apologies if this has been covered a million times... We just got a new spa (Freeflow Passport) and are loving it! We've had it for 4 whole days. The startup chemical kit that came with it was Leisure Time bromine tablet based. The guy who set it up tossed like 5 tablets into the filter well and said to test the water in a week. The packet of sodium bromide also went in, as did the Metal Gon. He said a floater wasn't necessary. The floater will allow you to adjust the amount of bromine sanitizer going into your spa. I suspect that your high bromine levels are because too much of the tablets are dissolving. I would get a floater! So, I tested the water yesterday. The bromine was at the high end of the strip. The calcium was below optimal. The pH/alkalinity were in the optimal zone. So here come the dumb questions... What is the difference between pH and total alkalinity? Don't they go hand in hand? A bit complicated. pH is the measure of how acidic or akaline somethng is. Total alkalinity is a measure of the carbonates and bicarbonates in the water (your spa is carbonated!) that act as a buffer to keep the pH from bouncing. the other part of this buffer system is not measureable. It is carbonic acid, essentially carbon dioxide dissolved in water. You might know it as seltzer (I told you your spa was carbonated, didn't I? ) TA will move with pH, that is it will go down when you lower the pH and rise when you chemically raise the pH. If you need to lower TA you drop the pH and then you need to get rid of the carbonic acid so the pH can go up without the carbonic acid converting back into carbonates and bicarbonates. If you drive out the carbon dioxide all you will have left is water (think shaking up a bottle of seltzer). so to cause the pH to rise without making the TA rise you aerate the water to drive out carbon dioxide. Very easy to do, turn on all the jets, air venturis and bubblers and let it run after you drop the pH to lower the TA and your pH will climb back up but leave you at the lower TA. Are all bromine tablet systems essentially the same? Should I stick to one brand between water changes, or at least a label-identical product? All bromine tablets are basically the same, They contain organic bromide, organic chlorine to activate the bromide into bromine, and dimethylhydantion as the carrier. Can I do anything about the very high bromine level aside from wait for it to go down? Take the tablets out of your filter and run the spa for a while, if you can expose the water to direct sunlight you will 'burn off' a lot of the bromine. Once the level is below 10 ppm you can enter the spa. Put your tablets in a floater and adjust it to maintain a 4-6 ppm bromine level. Shock the spa weekly to burn off organics. You can shock with non chlorine shock or laundry bleach (it's just liquid chlorine). Dichlor is not your best choice for shocking a bromine system. You want to use an unstabilized chlorine to shock like liquid chlorine. If you are wondering about using the chlorine in a bromine spa-- remember the packet of sodium bromide that got tossed in? You add that every time you drain and refill. It creates a 'bromide reserve' in the water. You activate that bromide reserve into bromine sanitizer, hypobromous acid, by oxidizing it (shocking it). You can use non chlorine shock, chlorine, or ozone to oxidize. I prefer liquid chlorine or bleach becuase it has less impact on pH than non chlorine shock does. The chlorine is instantly converted to chloride ions when it oxidized the bromide so there is no chlorine left in the spa. If you read the ingredients on your tablets you will see that they do, indeed, contain chlorine and this is the reason why. If you tell me how many gallons your spa is I can give you amounts of bleach that you would need to shock. After you shock the spa wait for the bromine levels to drop below 10 ppm before entering the water. Should I do something about low calcium? Why would "soft" water be bad? The only reason calcium is really needed in an acrylic or fiberglass spa is to make the water hard. Hard water will not foam as readily from the organics that collect in the water as soft water will. Calcium hardness (NOT total hardness) is what you need to measure and test strips don't measure calcium hardness! I would suggest getting a GOOD test kit such as the Taylor K-2106 for bromine . It's not exactly cheap but then again, neither was your spa! It will do all the tests you need to maintain your water balance! Calcium levels above about 130-150 ppm should be fine. If they get too high you run the risk of scale deposits forming. I would try and keep the calcium below about 250 ppm if possible. Calcium hardness plays a different role in a plaster spa and is needed to protect the plaster. It is usually kept at between 200400 ppm for plaster spas. Is it really OK to just toss the tablets in the filter well? Or should we use the floater? Use a floater so you can control the amount of bromine the tablets put into the water. Otherwise you can have bromine levels that are off the charts, as you do now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whoneedsavacation Posted July 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 Thanks Waterbear! BTW I Love your username.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterbear Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 Thanks Waterbear! BTW I Love your username.... Thanks I liked it better than Tardigrades. (Inside joke, google water bear to understand) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whoneedsavacation Posted July 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 Thanks I liked it better than Tardigrades. (Inside joke, google water bear to understand) I had a feeling it was something like that! So... do you test a lot of hot tub water or are you a marine biologist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterbear Posted July 11, 2007 Report Share Posted July 11, 2007 Thanks I liked it better than Tardigrades. (Inside joke, google water bear to understand) I had a feeling it was something like that! So... do you test a lot of hot tub water or are you a marine biologist? I work in a pool/spa supply and have been keeping salt water reef tanks since the 70's, so I have tested a LOT of water! I did do reaseach at the U of Miami School of Marine and Atmospheric Science my senior year of high school in oceanographic physical chemistry on the precipitation of calcium carbonate from seawater and the effects of various ions on the rate and form precipitated. Half a day of high school and half a day at the marine lab my senior year. Was a chem major in college. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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