D1 Diplomat And Vision Cartridge

[hoopy]

Just got my Diplomat and I am trying to get the chemicals right. I am using Leisure Time Chemicals. These are Spa Up, Spa Down for ph/akalinity, Renew for Shock and Spa 56 for occational chroline adding. I am also using the Vision cartridge that was installed Monday night. I was told that that ph and akalinity will go up or down together. When I first tested, the ph was good but the akalinity was low. I put some Spa Up in and it took the ph all the way to over 8.0 and the akalinity didn't move. So I was told that I needed an akalinity increaser. To make a long story short, right now that akalinity and ph are in acceptable ranges. But I smell an odor from the tub. Should I still be smelling an odor when I take the cover off? I am not exactly sure what it smells like.

Here's another question. My wife developed a rash on her stomach and thinks it might be from the tub. I don't have it though. Could the chemicals not being right cause this? The doctor said that it might be a lice that is living in the shell that would affect her everytime she goes in. Is this possible?

[sharkman009]

Just got my Diplomat and I am trying to get the chemicals right. I am using Leisure Time Chemicals. These are Spa Up, Spa Down for ph/akalinity, Renew for Shock and Spa 56 for occational chroline adding. I am also using the Vision cartridge that was installed Monday night. I was told that that ph and akalinity will go up or down together. When I first tested, the ph was good but the akalinity was low. I put some Spa Up in and it took the ph all the way to over 8.0 and the akalinity didn't move. So I was told that I needed an akalinity increaser. To make a long story short, right now that akalinity and ph are in acceptable ranges. But I smell an odor from the tub. Should I still be smelling an odor when I take the cover off? I am not exactly sure what it smells like.

Here's another question. My wife developed a rash on her stomach and thinks it might be from the tub. I don't have it though. Could the chemicals not being right cause this? The doctor said that it might be a lice that is living in the shell that would affect her everytime she goes in. Is this possible?

It sounds like the bacteria in your spa have gotten ahead of and the rash your wife has is common in spas that arent sanitized properly. Some people are more suseptible to the bacteria than others so she make break out and you may not. she will probably want to go to a doctor to get something to help clear it up and stay out of the spa until it clears up.

Even with the vision cartridge in the spa you need to maintain a chlorine residual and that sounds like the problem.

[Brulan1]

Just got my Diplomat and I am trying to get the chemicals right. I am using Leisure Time Chemicals. These are Spa Up, Spa Down for ph/akalinity, Renew for Shock and Spa 56 for occational chroline adding. I am also using the Vision cartridge that was installed Monday night. I was told that that ph and akalinity will go up or down together. When I first tested, the ph was good but the akalinity was low. I put some Spa Up in and it took the ph all the way to over 8.0 and the akalinity didn't move. So I was told that I needed an akalinity increaser. To make a long story short, right now that akalinity and ph are in acceptable ranges. But I smell an odor from the tub. Should I still be smelling an odor when I take the cover off? I am not exactly sure what it smells like.

Here's another question. My wife developed a rash on her stomach and thinks it might be from the tub. I don't have it though. Could the chemicals not being right cause this? The doctor said that it might be a lice that is living in the shell that would affect her everytime she goes in. Is this possible?

Do you have an Ozonator? Use a Monopersulfate or a nonchlorine shock, Natural spa purifier and a Chlorine shock (Seachlor). If you change that cartrige every 4 months like you are supposed to and keep on with your sanitation given you have an Ozone she will not have a rash. Also, use something like SpaMetalX for your mineral and scale prevention in the spa.

[Guzz]

Just got my Diplomat and I am trying to get the chemicals right. I am using Leisure Time Chemicals. These are Spa Up, Spa Down for ph/akalinity, Renew for Shock and Spa 56 for occational chroline adding. I am also using the Vision cartridge that was installed Monday night. I was told that that ph and akalinity will go up or down together. When I first tested, the ph was good but the akalinity was low. I put some Spa Up in and it took the ph all the way to over 8.0 and the akalinity didn't move. So I was told that I needed an akalinity increaser. To make a long story short, right now that akalinity and ph are in acceptable ranges. But I smell an odor from the tub. Should I still be smelling an odor when I take the cover off? I am not exactly sure what it smells like.

Here's another question. My wife developed a rash on her stomach and thinks it might be from the tub. I don't have it though. Could the chemicals not being right cause this? The doctor said that it might be a lice that is living in the shell that would affect her everytime she goes in. Is this possible?

This sounds like folliculitis. It does'nt affect everyone but you will need to dump your spa water. Refill the tub add 3oz lysol concentrate and 2 cups of bleach for each 500 gallons. Run the spa for 24 hours turning all jets in all directions, then dump and immediately refill, this is a known cure for this common problem associated with spas that have had old water standing in the plumbing, was this a used floor model.

[hoopy]

@Brulun1: I thought the Vision cartridge needs changed every 6 months, not every 4 months. Yes, I use an ozonator and I am using a non-chlorine shock (it says Potassium Peroxymonosulfate on the bottle.)

@Guzz: I called my spa dealer and he never heard of folliculitis but my wife's doctor used that word when he described what it might be. My dealer said that I could super chlorinate the water but I would have to stay out of the spas for about 2 days. Do you think that would work? Yes, this hot tub was used before.

[Guzz]

@Brulun1: I thought the Vision cartridge needs changed every 6 months, not every 4 months. Yes, I use an ozonator and I am using a non-chlorine shock (it says Potassium Peroxymonosulfate on the bottle.)

@Guzz: I called my spa dealer and he never heard of folliculitis but my wife's doctor used that word when he described what it might be. My dealer said that I could super chlorinate the water but I would have to stay out of the spas for about 2 days. Do you think that would work? Yes, this hot tub was used before.

No that will not work, and I am surprised you dealer is not aware of this as it is a common problem with used spas, the treatment I recommended is proven to work.

[Brulan1]

No that will not work, and I am surprised you dealer is not aware of this as it is a common problem with used spas, the treatment I recommended is proven to work.

It would work but I dont recommend that. Just follow what I said to do and you will be fine. Make sure to change the natural spa purifier accordingly, follow with the peroxymonopersulfate everytime you use the tub(1oz) and a chlorine shock like dychlor or seachlor lithium based chlorine. That coupled with your ozone and filtration will do the job. Hot tub rash infections are often caused by a germ called Pseudomonas aeruginosa. The germ is microscopic so that it cannot be seen with the naked eye. Hot tubs have hotter water therefor disinfectants break down faster which leaves the spa at risk for the spread of rashes. PH and chlorine levels most likely prevent this from happening. Also the latest state of the art oxidizers are available if you don't want chlorine of any sort. Most rashes clear up in a few days without medical treatment. Contact your healthcare provider if problem persists. That means contact one that is familiar with hottub rashes.

[hoopy]

@Brulan1: So I should use the shock (it's by Leisure Time and it's called Renew) after every time I use the tub? And then also add some chlorine (called Spa 56 Chlorinating Granulars, it also says Sodium Dichloro-s-Triazinetrione Dihydrate)? If so, how much of the chlorine? I ask because my dealer intially told me that I would only need to use the shock once a week and the Spa 56 once in a while. When I use my test strips, what should the Free Chlorine read? Thanks for all the advice.

[hoopy]

Brulan, what do you think?

[Brulan1]

@Brulan1: So I should use the shock (it's by Leisure Time and it's called Renew) after every time I use the tub? And then also add some chlorine (called Spa 56 Chlorinating Granulars, it also says Sodium Dichloro-s-Triazinetrione Dihydrate)? If so, how much of the chlorine? I ask because my dealer intially told me that I would only need to use the shock once a week and the Spa 56 once in a while. When I use my test strips, what should the Free Chlorine read? Thanks for all the advice.

Why are you using a stabalized chlorine? If you are using it for your spa, being it is so strong, you would use it less often. If you are using a stabalized chlorine like Dichloro-sTD you will build a residual after a month or two and the water becomes locked and at that point when the water is cloudy and the PH's are harder to adjust you would need to do a water exchange to get rid of the residual. Use a Peroxymonopersulfate as your non-chlorine shock 1oz after every use or Renew! Use a non stabalized based chlorine like Seachlor Lithium or Lithium Hypochlorite 1oz weekly. Continue with the nature 2 or any ionizer cartrige periodically every 4 months. Make sure you add a mineral and scale prevention weekly to keep up. Good luck

[sharkman009]

It would work but I dont recommend that. Just follow what I said to do and you will be fine. Make sure to change the natural spa purifier accordingly, follow with the peroxymonopersulfate everytime you use the tub(1oz) and a chlorine shock like dychlor or seachlor lithium based chlorine. That coupled with your ozone and filtration will do the job. Hot tub rash infections are often caused by a germ called Pseudomonas aeruginosa. The germ is microscopic so that it cannot be seen with the naked eye. Hot tubs have hotter water therefor disinfectants break down faster which leaves the spa at risk for the spread of rashes. PH and chlorine levels most likely prevent this from happening. Also the latest state of the art oxidizers are available if you don't want chlorine of any sort. Most rashes clear up in a few days without medical treatment. Contact your healthcare provider if problem persists. That means contact one that is familiar with hottub rashes.

You need some type of sanitizer in the spa with an ionizer cartridge and with ozone. An oxidizer is not neccesarily a sanitizer and with the system that you are describing you do need a chlorine residual. I am not aware of any other sanitizers that oxidize bacteria other than chlorine or bromine.

[sharkman009]

Why are you using a stabalized chlorine? If you are using it for your spa, being it is so strong, you would use it less often. If you are using a stabalized chlorine like Dichloro-sTD you will build a residual after a month or two and the water becomes locked and at that point when the water is cloudy and the PH's are harder to adjust you would need to do a water exchange to get rid of the residual. Use a Peroxymonopersulfate as your non-chlorine shock 1oz after every use or Renew! Use a non stabalized based chlorine like Seachlor Lithium or Lithium Hypochlorite 1oz weekly. Continue with the nature 2 or any ionizer cartrige periodically every 4 months. Make sure you add a mineral and scale prevention weekly to keep up. Good luck

All sodium dichlor is stabibilized and most granular spa chlorines are sodium dichlor. In the small amounts that you use this chlorine in the stabilizer is not a factor. Also chlorine lock does not happen in fact there have been studies showing chlorine actually working better in high stabilizer levels. The bottom line is there is not a problem with using sodium dichlor. My opinion.

[Brulan1]

All sodium dichlor is stabibilized and most granular spa chlorines are sodium dichlor. In the small amounts that you use this chlorine in the stabilizer is not a factor. Also chlorine lock does not happen in fact there have been studies showing chlorine actually working better in high stabilizer levels. The bottom line is there is not a problem with using sodium dichlor. My opinion.

From my experience I have gained strength and hope in this area. I have found that having over 100ppm with any stabalized water whether spa water 300gals. or pool water 33,000gallons, it does infact cause a problem. whether you use 1oz for the 300gals. or 100 oz 30,000 gallons it does cause clarity problems and volitile conditions with PH

[sharkman009]

From my experience I have gained strength and hope in this area. I have found that having over 100ppm with any stabalized water whether spa water 300gals. or pool water 33,000gallons, it does infact cause a problem. whether you use 1oz for the 300gals. or 100 oz 30,000 gallons it does cause clarity problems and volitile conditions with PH

You would have to have a spa filled for a long period of time to get a stabilizer level to 100 ppm just from using sodium dichlor. In my opinion this would never be a problem with a self contained. The only effect cyanuric acid has on water clarity is its addition to TDS. What are calling volitile conditions with Ph?

[Brulan1]

You would have to have a spa filled for a long period of time to get a stabilizer level to 100 ppm just from using sodium dichlor. In my opinion this would never be a problem with a self contained. The only effect cyanuric acid has on water clarity is its addition to TDS. What are calling volitile conditions with Ph?

I found in pools, that the alkalinity is always depleted leaving the PH off the chart back and forth when CA is too high and into lock. But TDS raises as well. So when that happens just do a water exchange because you'll know the TDS is too high when the CA is over 100ppm so doing a TDS isn't neccessary because the CA is an indicator that TDS is next

[sharkman009]

I found in pools, that the alkalinity is always depleted leaving the PH off the chart back and forth when CA is too high and into lock. But TDS raises as well. So when that happens just do a water exchange because you'll know the TDS is too high when the CA is over 100ppm so doing a TDS isn't neccessary because the CA is an indicator that TDS is next

Brulan, You need to do a little homework on water chemistry. Cyanuric acid does not deplete Total alkalinity and just because you have a high Ca level does not mean that you have high TDS. CA is not an indicator of TDS. When you say the CA is in lock what are you talking about?

[Brulan1]

Brulan, You need to do a little homework on water chemistry. Cyanuric acid does not deplete Total alkalinity and just because you have a high Ca level does not mean that you have high TDS. CA is not an indicator of TDS. When you say the CA is in lock what are you talking about?

I wrote that there is a correlation between the two by all means. It means that chlorine can no longer release in the water to kill bacteria. NOthing removes cynaric acid and it doesn't dissapate. A water exchange must be done to remove the ppm in the water. This is 30 years of water chemistry and experience. So if you are using a Stabalized based chlorine in spa water that is a pretty bad idea unless you dont mind exchanging your water every 3-4 months. I would never tell one of my customers to put a SBC in the spa. You can use CA as an indicator that TDS is on the dimisnishing return.

[sharkman009]

I wrote that there is a correlation between the two by all means. It means that chlorine can no longer release in the water to kill bacteria. NOthing removes cynaric acid and it doesn't dissapate. A water exchange must be done to remove the ppm in the water. This is 30 years of water chemistry and experience. So if you are using a Stabalized based chlorine in spa water that is a pretty bad idea unless you dont mind exchanging your water every 3-4 months. I would never tell one of my customers to put a SBC in the spa. You can use CA as an indicator that TDS is on the dimisnishing return.

If you have thirty years of water chemistry experience then you should know that chlorine lock has been proven to be a false theory. In fact just the oposite has been proven. Chlorine molecules actually can be more active with high Cyanuric Acid levels. As far as stabalized chlorine being a bad idea I guess most chemical manufacturers would disagree with you as most granulated spa chlorine on the market is Dichlor and Dichlor is a stabilized form of chlorine.

You were correct on one thing, Cyanuric acid can not be removed from the water, draining is the only way to remove it.

The amounts of stabalizer contained in these products is so negligable its not even worth mentioning.

How would you use Cyanuric acid levels to prove TDS is high? On one thread you said you had never heard of TDS and on this thread your trying to tell me that you can get an indication of TDS levels. If you have 30 years of water chemistry experience one of the first things you should have learned about is TDS.

[Brulan1]

If you have thirty years of water chemistry experience then you should know that chlorine lock has been proven to be a false theory. In fact just the oposite has been proven. Chlorine molecules actually can be more active with high Cyanuric Acid levels. As far as stabalized chlorine being a bad idea I guess most chemical manufacturers would disagree with you as most granulated spa chlorine on the market is Dichlor and Dichlor is a stabilized form of chlorine.

You were correct on one thing, Cyanuric acid can not be removed from the water, draining is the only way to remove it.

The amounts of stabalizer contained in these products is so negligable its not even worth mentioning.

How would you use Cyanuric acid levels to prove TDS is high? On one thread you said you had never heard of TDS and on this thread your trying to tell me that you can get an indication of TDS levels. If you have 30 years of water chemistry experience one of the first things you should have learned about is TDS.

Do your research with CA or Stabalizer first off. It might be more active but it doesn't "release properly". I never use TDS I say Total dissolve solids. I always say Cyanaric Acid not CA. You should empty the water ever 4-6 months anyway why bother testing TDS? I know I wouldn't want the same water in my tub for more than 4 months. If you use an ecosmarte oxidizer than you can say goodbye to TDS or STD or whatever. Think about it

[sharkman009]

Do your research with CA or Stabalizer first off. It might be more active but it doesn't "release properly". I never use TDS I say Total dissolve solids. I always say Cyanaric Acid not CA. You should empty the water ever 4-6 months anyway why bother testing TDS? I know I wouldn't want the same water in my tub for more than 4 months. If you use an ecosmarte oxidizer than you can say goodbye to TDS or STD or whatever. Think about it

How can chlorine be more active but as you describe "doesnt release properly" what is it releasing? If chlorine is more active that means it is more aggressive at killing bacteria. Your comment about testing TDS shows your ignorance of water chemistry in general. TDS is probably the most important number you need to know to determine when to drain ANY body of water. You can have situations where heavy use of a spa and the chemicals added in a short period of time could drive the TDS up in a very short period of time and if you dont test for TDS you wouldnt have a clue why you cant maintain water clarity. And I dont care what product you use you can NEVER say goodbye to TDS.

[Brulan1]

How can chlorine be more active but as you describe "doesnt release properly" what is it releasing? If chlorine is more active that means it is more aggressive at killing bacteria. Your comment about testing TDS shows your ignorance of water chemistry in general. TDS is probably the most important number you need to know to determine when to drain ANY body of water. You can have situations where heavy use of a spa and the chemicals added in a short period of time could drive the TDS up in a very short period of time and if you dont test for TDS you wouldnt have a clue why you cant maintain water clarity. And I dont care what product you use you can NEVER say goodbye to TDS.

Chlorine cannot release when the CA is too high. Chlorine remains inertia because of the high activity of Stabalizer. For every action there is an opposite and equal reaction. As for TDS, you can just go by CA levels and determine when you need to do a water exchange. By correcting the CA level you for-see the problem way before it happens. When I cannot clear my spa in say 3 months I know that the water needs to be exchanged without doing that test. For me I have been doing this so long I already have that CST(common sense test) in my head. I say goodbye to TDS and hello to CST. Just my opinion

[sharkman009]

Chlorine cannot release when the CA is too high. Chlorine remains inertia because of the high activity of Stabalizer. For every action there is an opposite and equal reaction. As for TDS, you can just go by CA levels and determine when you need to do a water exchange. By correcting the CA level you for-see the problem way before it happens. When I cannot clear my spa in say 3 months I know that the water needs to be exchanged without doing that test. For me I have been doing this so long I already have that CST(common sense test) in my head. I say goodbye to TDS and hello to CST. Just my opinion

Thats a new one I've never heard of the common sense test. Do you do that common sense test for customers also? The sad thing is you may be out ther passing this kind of mis information on to consumers.

You have contradicted yourself in several entries, you keep reffering to hig Cyanuric acid levels being a problem. I would be willing to bet if you asked every service tech and dealer on this forum how many of you see problems with high stabilizer levels in spas? You wouldnt get much of a response. So your telling customers not to use Dichlor and that they should use an ecosmart shock because of stabilizer is wrong, its a non issue unless you have customers buying stabilizer and adding just stabilizer to their spa.

[Brulan1]

Thats a new one I've never heard of the common sense test. Do you do that common sense test for customers also? The sad thing is you may be out ther passing this kind of mis information on to consumers.

You have contradicted yourself in several entries, you keep reffering to hig Cyanuric acid levels being a problem. I would be willing to bet if you asked every service tech and dealer on this forum how many of you see problems with high stabilizer levels in spas? You wouldnt get much of a response. So your telling customers not to use Dichlor and that they should use an ecosmart shock because of stabilizer is wrong, its a non issue unless you have customers buying stabilizer and adding just stabilizer to their spa.

It has worked for me for years and years and never had a complaint from one of my customers. I had enough arguing this is to help people.

[hoopy]

So my question still remains, do I have to add a cap full of shock (Renew) after EVERY time I use the spa?

[Hot N Wet]

So my question still remains, do I have to add a cap full of shock (Renew) after EVERY time I use the spa?

It's not going to hurt anything. I know quite a few people who religously add shock after every use. It's more of an assurance that bacteria levels, after tub use, will be taken care of and the sanitizer can more effectively maintain the tub. Go for it.