Help Installing Coping Around Fiberglass Pool

[achyback1]

We have been having problems with our fiberglass pool installation since the day the contractor stepped on our property. Any way we now have contracted with someone to install our coping and paving bricks around our pool. The other day they came by and installed the coping using thin set with an additive. It seemed to work great. Then you step on the coping and the brick pops loose (two days later after its grouted) after that they all popped. The contractor says because the coping is flexible that is why it popped. Re-inforce it with concrete he says. So I did. Now the coping is as rigid as anything. But guess what? The coping still pops loose from the fiberglass. The part of the fiberglass that was sanded heavily stuck better but it still poped loose. The pervious contractor stuck the bricks with silicone and it held great, but the bricks would have some give to them and the grout cracked. What is the best adhesive to use to attach a masonry coping brick to a fiberglass coping? Another question too! Whose fault is it that the coping came off the pool? is it mine? Is the contractor responsible to redo the job that didn't hold up for more than 2 days. (He hasn't been paid yet, he's on vacation for 2 weeks which means my pool won't get finished now for at least three if not four more weeks. He did get a 50% deposit 12 weeks ago though)

[johncap523]

We have been having problems with our fiberglass pool installation since the day the contractor stepped on our property. Any way we now have contracted with someone to install our coping and paving bricks around our pool. The other day they came by and installed the coping using thin set with an additive. It seemed to work great. Then you step on the coping and the brick pops loose (two days later after its grouted) after that they all popped. The contractor says because the coping is flexible that is why it popped. Re-inforce it with concrete he says. So I did. Now the coping is as rigid as anything. But guess what? The coping still pops loose from the fiberglass. The part of the fiberglass that was sanded heavily stuck better but it still poped loose. The pervious contractor stuck the bricks with silicone and it held great, but the bricks would have some give to them and the grout cracked. What is the best adhesive to use to attach a masonry coping brick to a fiberglass coping? Another question too! Whose fault is it that the coping came off the pool? is it mine? Is the contractor responsible to redo the job that didn't hold up for more than 2 days. (He hasn't been paid yet, he's on vacation for 2 weeks which means my pool won't get finished now for at least three if not four more weeks. He did get a 50% deposit 12 weeks ago though)

Interesting. How did you finally make out? I've been toying with overlaying pavers over my concrete. I should have cantilevered the concrete but didn't so now I have the fiberglass rim on top that the pavers would have to bond to along with the concrete and I figured the movement would be a problem.

[Dennis]

I installed my fiberglass pool with the intension of installing a sandstone coping and deck. I place concrete around the pool and then wondered how to set the coping on the fiberglass around the perimeter. Some said silicone and others said construction adhesive. I did not see how this could last. I set out to find a better more durable method. This is what I ended up doing:

1 Sand area to be covered with 60 grit sand paper, all glossy surfaces should be removed

2 Purchase a high quality waterproof 2 part epoxy thin-set, install on fiberglass using 1/4" notch trowel

3 After epoxy has cured install coping using correct method for material you are using

This gives the grout something to hang on to. I thought about using epoxy to set my sandstone coping but it would be way to expensive due to the different thickness from stone to stone. If your coping is a consistent thickness, setting them with the epoxy should work fine. Talk to your tile guy and make sure you get the right kind of epoxy. I am happy to say my sandstone is holding on just fine.

Dennis

[achyback1]

We actually poured some cement under the coping of the pool to help stabilize and reinforce it to keep it from flexing, then I sanded the coping all the way around the pool to eliminate the glossy surface and used a marine adhesive to fasten the brick coping to the fiberglass coping. It seem to have worked well. The original contractor used silicone to fasten thier bricks and although it held well it was flexible and have some give to it, which in turn caused the grout to crack inbetween the bricks. By the way, note the use of "we", the second contractor backed out of the contract after he had the coping fall off, leaving me stranded once again. I saved a lot of money doing it myself though, it it actually came out better than the pro's.

[Hetal]

Has anyone been advised to have wire mesh screwed into the fiberglass coping and then thinset with mortar for cantilever brick coping? Is there any structural reason not to have screws into the fiberglass?

[don pool]

It is of vital importance that you pour a footing underneath the lip of the fiberglass pool before you add brick coping or any other type of coping for that matter. No offense intended to "coping help" but packing and compacting sand underneath the lip of the pool is not the proper way to do it. Every engineering plan I have ever seen for a fiberglass pool coping detail shows a concrete footing. Go to sanjuanpools.com and go to engineering. You will be able to see the detail.

[Hetal]

What type of screws are used?

[frostlich]

Looks like some knowledgeable people here, so I'll throw my question in. I hope it's not hijacking the thread, but it seems relevant to the OP.

I had a monolithic slab/decking with cantilevered edge poured around my new fiberglass install about 15 months ago. I have 2 major problems that I don't consider normal.

1) Where the cantilevered edge meets the fiberglass pool, chunks(as in up to 1-2" high by various lengths) are falling off. This started within 3 months of install. I don't consider this normal, but of course my concrete guy said it's due to it being a monolithic slab and there's nothing I can do about it.

2) Major cracks have started around the ladder area-extending to the cantilevered coping. The crack goes through the entire depth of the concrete, as ants are now coming up through the opening. Expansion joints were cut at regular intervals, but it seems as though one section of the concrete decking has possibly shifted-causing the bigger cracks. This cracking started about 6-7 months after install. Aside from the aesthetics, I'm worried about large sections of concrete falling on to somebody trying to use the ladder.

Any ideas what is causing this, whether it's considered normal in the industry, and what my options are? My contractor has assured me several times over the past year that he would repair it, that it was no problem to fix, but he's been dragging me on for nearly a year now. Finally, when push came to shove, they are completely changing their tune saying they won't back the work, and that concrete 'just cracks'-and there's nothing they can/will do about it.

Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

[don pool]

It seems to me that you have some issues that are due to lack of proper compaction prior to the placement of your concrete. Your pool builder is right that concrete is guaranteed to do two things;

1. It will get hard

2. It will crack

Proper expansion joints will help to control the cracks and a good concrete crew will do a pretty good job in placing the joints in all the likely places. It's not an exact science but you shouldn't be having the major problems you are having. The deck is obviously moving, and it is hard to determine whether the ground around the pool is sinking due to improper compaction, a water leak or some other unseen factor. If you live in an area that has clay or adobe type soil, the ground could be expanding under your concrete instead of sinking. The concrete falling off of your cantilever face could be caused by these factors or: rock pockets in the concrete can develop behind the cantilever forms while they are pouring the concrete and they may not have "sacked" or patched those areas properly. Is your deck just plain concrete or do you have some sort of deck coating?

[don pool]

It seems to me that you have some issues that are due to lack of proper compaction prior to the placement of your concrete. Your pool builder is right that concrete is guaranteed to do two things;

1. It will get hard

2. It will crack

Proper expansion joints will help to control the cracks and a good concrete crew will do a pretty good job in placing the joints in all the likely places. It's not an exact science but you shouldn't be having the major problems you are having. The deck is obviously moving, and it is hard to determine whether the ground around the pool is sinking due to improper compaction, a water leak or some other unseen factor. If you live in an area that has clay or adobe type soil, the ground could be expanding under your concrete instead of sinking. The concrete falling off of your cantilever face could be caused by these factors or: rock pockets in the concrete can develop behind the cantilever forms while they are pouring the concrete and they may not have "sacked" or patched those areas properly. Is your deck just plain concrete or do you have some sort of deck coating?

[don pool]

It seems to me that you have some issues that are due to lack of proper compaction prior to the placement of your concrete. Your pool builder is right that concrete is guaranteed to do two things;

1. It will get hard

2. It will crack

Proper expansion joints will help to control the cracks and a good concrete crew will do a pretty good job in placing the joints in all the likely places. It's not an exact science but you shouldn't be having the major problems you are having. The deck is obviously moving, and it is hard to determine whether the ground around the pool is sinking due to improper compaction, a water leak or some other unseen factor. If you live in an area that has clay or adobe type soil, the ground could be expanding under your concrete instead of sinking. The concrete falling off of your cantilever face could be caused by these factors or: rock pockets in the concrete can develop behind the cantilever forms while they are pouring the concrete and they may not have "sacked" or patched those areas properly. Is your deck just plain concrete or do you have some sort of deck coating?

[frostlich]

It seems to me that you have some issues that are due to lack of proper compaction prior to the placement of your concrete. Your pool builder is right that concrete is guaranteed to do two things;

1. It will get hard

2. It will crack

Proper expansion joints will help to control the cracks and a good concrete crew will do a pretty good job in placing the joints in all the likely places. It's not an exact science but you shouldn't be having the major problems you are having. The deck is obviously moving, and it is hard to determine whether the ground around the pool is sinking due to improper compaction, a water leak or some other unseen factor. If you live in an area that has clay or adobe type soil, the ground could be expanding under your concrete instead of sinking. The concrete falling off of your cantilever face could be caused by these factors or: rock pockets in the concrete can develop behind the cantilever forms while they are pouring the concrete and they may not have "sacked" or patched those areas properly. Is your deck just plain concrete or do you have some sort of deck coating?

Deck is just plain concrete-no coating.

The ground is all clay, and the pool is not leaking. I can post some pictures later if that helps.

Thanks again for the help!

[don pool]

I lived in an area of Nevada that had very expansive clay soil. Wherever we were going to pour our concrete decking around our pools we removed the clay soil down to a depth of about 12" and filled that over excavation with a good base material consisting of crushed rock and sand. We wet and compacted that material and then poured the concrete. We were also careful to make sure the homeowner did not put any landscaping or plants that required water within 10 feet of the pool deck area. When clay gets wet it expands in most cases. The precautions that we took minimized the chances that the ground underneath and around the pool decking would expand enough to cause problems with the decking. In some cases it did anyways, but once again, we took every precaution to prevent that from happening.

[don pool]

I lived in an area of Nevada that had very expansive clay soil. Wherever we were going to pour our concrete decking around our pools we removed the clay soil down to a depth of about 12" and filled that over excavation with a good base material consisting of crushed rock and sand. We wet and compacted that material and then poured the concrete. We were also careful to make sure the homeowner did not put any landscaping or plants that required water within 10 feet of the pool deck area. When clay gets wet it expands in most cases. The precautions that we took minimized the chances that the ground underneath and around the pool decking would expand enough to cause problems with the decking. In some cases it did anyways, but once again, we took every precaution to prevent that from happening.

[don pool]

I lived in an area of Nevada that had very expansive clay soil. Wherever we were going to pour our concrete decking around our pools we removed the clay soil down to a depth of about 12" and filled that over excavation with a good base material consisting of crushed rock and sand. We wet and compacted that material and then poured the concrete. We were also careful to make sure the homeowner did not put any landscaping or plants that required water within 10 feet of the pool deck area. When clay gets wet it expands in most cases. The precautions that we took minimized the chances that the ground underneath and around the pool decking would expand enough to cause problems with the decking. In some cases it did anyways, but once again, we took every precaution to prevent that from happening.

[frostlich]

I lived in an area of Nevada that had very expansive clay soil. Wherever we were going to pour our concrete decking around our pools we removed the clay soil down to a depth of about 12" and filled that over excavation with a good base material consisting of crushed rock and sand. We wet and compacted that material and then poured the concrete. We were also careful to make sure the homeowner did not put any landscaping or plants that required water within 10 feet of the pool deck area. When clay gets wet it expands in most cases. The precautions that we took minimized the chances that the ground underneath and around the pool decking would expand enough to cause problems with the decking. In some cases it did anyways, but once again, we took every precaution to prevent that from happening.

Here's some pictures. The one where the cantilever meets the pool edge is pretty much everywhere around the pool-that started about 3-5 months after install.

The big crack around the ladder started about 7-8 months after install.

I believe my contractors did NOT put any kind of footer or anything else under the lip of the pool coping to shore it up. I believe this is where most of the problem is coming from...

ALSO, I noticed today while looking a little closer, you can see duct tape still in place between the concrete coping and pool edge(where the coping is flaking off). They used this to secure the cantilever forms.