Morgan Spa Built 10-21-1992 Model: Carmel

[DeanJ]

Looking for help with a wiring issue:  Hot tub was given to family member.  They winterized  system but failed to plug a hole going into controller.  Mice ate some wire coverings.  Family member repaired wires but failed to take pictures before removing wires to repairs.  

Something didn't get put back correctly.   Drawing in Operators manual is a typical drawing but not a true representation of what's actually inside controller.

All components have been individually tested and work E.g.  Stepper device, Neutral Relay, pump relay, ozone relay, Heater, Heater Contactor, switches, timers, pressure switch, air motor, pump motor Topside controllers...

I'm guessing something is wired wrong with the neutral relay switches (possibly something with pump relay switches but doubtful). This is based on what wires were repaired and the area their located.  

All wires have passed continuity testing.

An As- Built drawing as currently wired can be provide as well as pictures.

V/R,

   Dean

[RDspaguy]

You can wire those things up a number of ways and get a working control system, so it is common to find that they don't match the diagram anyway. That system was designed by a good ole boy from Arkansas named Aubrey who is NOT an electrical engineer, and it can be made to operate as planned using roughly half of the components in there.

That said, tracking the wiring in a morgan makes even me need a drink, and will not happen by internet. It might be better if you describe what it's doing so we can get a starting point at least.

Post pics.

[DeanJ]

I agree totally about a drink or 3.  This has been very frustrating.  Like I mentioned, I believe that poor repair practice has caused the problem (ie bad assumption that memory of removing multiple wires for repair, no actual wiring diagram, failure to take pictures prior, poor lighting at the time… and lack of experience set the stage for failure.

Attached is what the current wiring looks like.

My gut feeling is that there is a wiring issue with the Neutral Relay.  My reasoning is this:

1 - my discussion references the Neutral Relay (NR) left Switch (SW1) right as (SW2) with contact points being A = common B = NC and C = NO when solenoid is deenergized.  Ref. Attached drawing sketch; NR is labeled as such and is right of the stepper device.

2 - NR SW1A has BL (Blue wire) comming directly from Power Block “Red” incoming power.  “This doesn’t seem logical to me because it can setup a 240 vac situation. Also Morgan manual doesn’t show anything like this setup”

3 - NR SW2A doesn’t have any Wite connected to it. “To me this means it basically is a useless switch.

4 - NR SW2B has (BR) brown wiring coming directly from Power Block (Black Aka L1) though fuse to live side of GFIC and main power switch common tab).  “Why would power be going to a NC switch tab when nothing is attached to NR SW2A.” 

5 -  NR SW2C is wired to (W) white neutral.  “This seems very odd” standard wiring practices that I’m accustomed to is to always control the “hot wire” not the Neutral wiring.  But this is the first time every confronting something called a Neutral Relay and there is some reason why this relay is called “Neutral Relay”

6 - One test condition I observed as I toggled stepper device; I saw a condition where 120 Vac from L1 Brown was going to pump “black” wire and 120 vac was going to pump “red” wire from L2.  When reading pump black to red of course was showing 240 vac this to me just didn’t feel correct.  The pump is suppose to be 2 speed 120 vac.  I believe only 240 vac is suppose to be for heater operation only.  
 

V/R,

    Dean  I’d post my phone number but I’m new to the site a not sure if this allowed,

 

 

 

 

[RDspaguy]

Did you make that? Is that as-is, or as designed?

What you have to remember is that these packs are put in all different tubs. Some have 120v only. Some have 120v pump but 240v heater. Some have 240v everything. Because the diagram shows it or pack has it does not mean it's used in your spa. As I said, there are alot of ways to wire one of these.

The "neutral relay" is not switching neutral, it's switching "common", which is the non-control leg and is only neutral in a 120v only system where the neutral and common (L2) are bonded at the main power terminal block. Not sure why they called it "neutral".

Post pics of the pack. 

 

[DeanJ]

The sketch I posted is current after wires were repaired following the mice dining on cable insulation.  I do not have an as designed drawing.  Non ever existed. I’ll post the Morgan supplied drawing that was included in the owners manual.  In the Morgan drawing, you’ll not see an ozone/ionizer relay. There is also no air blower PC board.  Neutral (W) wiring is also different (Morgan drawing has all neutral (W) wiring tied together)

V/R 

   Dean

 

[RDspaguy]

Ok. At a glance I'd say nothing works, right? No pump, light, nothing? This is because you have no neutral if your diagram is correct. The main power block has a white wire from main power but there is no wire shown going from there to the gfci. I suggest you follow the factory wiring diagram. 

You do not want ozone in that spa, it will just destroy your cover.

[DeanJ]

There are things that do work.

Look at the power block you have Black (L1), Red (L2), White (neutral aka common) and Green (Ground) (which bonds earth ground, Cooper rod driven in ground as well as ground wire from house power).  The outgoing tap/lug of the white (neutral) wire runs down to the left and up to the stepper devices drive, from there to Neutral Relay Solenoid (NRS), to Pump Relay Solenoid (PRS), to Ozone Relay Solenoid (ORS), to Heater Main Contactor (HMC) to GFIC Line side White.  
GFIC Brown (BR) is powered from power block L1 Black via fuse.

Therefore GFIC Load side if not tripped is powered supplying power to filter & heater timer motors, power to turn on spa light is ON-OFF air switch is pressed.  Depending on filter/pump & heater switch positions as well as set time range additional things occur and top side control temperature setting and actual water bulb temperature the main heater Contactor will operate.  

*** What doesn't operate is the pump. *** and it should.   

Even if you turn Main Power Switch "ON" and the door interlock is satisfied no pump operation occurs regardless if you press the "Function" button air switch which activates the stepper device.   If you look at the Morgan drawing, you'll see that the pump (W) neutral, ozone generator and air power motor are all connected to same (W) neutral but thats not how the actual wiring is.  The pump (W) connects to NR SW2 (NO) tab (which if main switch power is "ON" and door interlock is satisfied would now be closed but there is no feed to the common tab on NR SW2.   This is one of the issues that I mentioned in my first response to you.  It doesn't make sense that (W) wire is being contacted to a relate switch.

 

 

[RDspaguy]

Oh, I see it. I'm on my phone, so it's hard to make out your drawing. Also, I am a volunteer trying to help you in my spare time, which is limited. Tracking a wiring issue is something I do with a tester, not a diagram. Where the power dies is where the problem lies.

On 8/4/2023 at 8:57 AM, RDspaguy said:

tracking the wiring in a morgan makes even me need a drink, and will not happen by internet.

I'll pm you my email. Send me pics of your diagram and the inside of your pack and I'll see what I can do for you.

 

[Desert wander]

Hi, DeanJ, did you ever resolve your issue? I have a morgan spa as well , its from 1994 with the same power box you posted. I can not figure out what is not getting power to turn on the pump, light, etc. My volt meter shows power running through a lot of the circuitry, but I have yet to pinpoint the actual fault.

 

Did you just end up replacing the box, pump, blower, etc? Does it work now? Thank for any help/insight that you can provide :)