Problems with Jandy AquaPure PLC1400

[Mchristo]

Weird things happening with my Jandy PLC1400 salt generator, that is almost 2 yrs old.  Sometimes my aqualink shows “general fault” other times it shows that it’s working well.  On my pool panel I’ve seen intermittent error code 121 as well.   This afternoon it showed that there was no AquaPure found at all on my web page for Aqualink.    Then it just reappeared.  Not sure if this is related or not, but my salt level on AquaPure readout shows 2900, when I test it with a Taylor K-1766 Sodium Chloride salt Test it matches exactly with the AquaPure.  When I take samples to two separate pool stores, they say my salt levels are down around 2000/2200 range.  I’ve had to choose to trust the Taylor Salt Test and my AquaPure.  My chlorine output is set at 70% and I have about 1.0 Chlorine when performing a Taylor drop which matches with the pool stores.  I last shocked the pool 3 days ago.   Two days ago I cleaned the salt cell with mix of 25% muriatic acid/75% water- there were no bubbles - before cleaning it looked almost spotless except for some tiny calcium build up in a corner.   Any ideas what might be going on here?  Thank you.  

[waterbear]

It is possible  that your salt might be low or your cell is dying.  Many people do the Taylor salt titration wrong and overshoot the endpoint. They don't stop when the sample initially turns a light salmon color and continue past the endpoint giving a higher salt reading than it actiua;;u.  I would recommend getting some AqiuaChek salt test striips to double check. How were the pool stores testing for salt? 

Salt readings on SWGCs can also be inaccurate. They are measuring the conductivity of the water but other ions besides sodium and chloride can also affect conductivity.

11 hours ago, Mchristo said:

On my pool panel I’ve seen intermittent error code 121 as well

This is low current in the reverse direction, it can mean cell failure, a dirty cell, or low salt.

What is your pH and CYA?

 

[Mchristo]

Waterbear,  

Thank you so much for replying!  I believe I’m doing the Taylor Salt triathlon correctly.  Giving it a good swirl before each drop and stopping at the first point of color changing to salmon/brick red.  

Pool is gunnite, 31,300 gallons, pebbletec finish.  

More background info:  I returned home from two weeks away on sunday July 9th and the pool had some algea.  Chlorine was 0.  I shocked the pool that night and took a sample to pool store on Monday AM.  

Numbers:  

free avail. Chlorine 4.09, PH 7.8, TA 103, CH 229, CA 5, Phosphates 3437!!!, Salt 1951, Saturation Index .4 ??

That day I tested salt on my cell 2500, on Taylor test 2600.  

Step1 added  1/2gal muriatic acid, step 2 added 3 gallons of EZ Pour liquid Cyanuric acid which should take the CA to 30ppm.    Step 3 added 80 lbs salt.  

After this, my pool was measuring 2800 salt, PH 7.2,  Next day I added additional 40lbs of salt and the reading has been bouncing around 2900 to 3200 on my SWG sensor.   Currently reading 2900 and at the moment I’m not getting any errors on the SWG.  (Happily).   My pool builder recommends salt level at 2800-2900.  

Earlier this month I had taken samples to two separate pool stores and both were measuring in the low 2000‘s.  As mentioned - I chose to believe the combination of the Taylor and my pools readings.   I don’t know how the pool stores are measuring the salt levels.  The printout from one pool store says they have “ClearCare Expert Water Analysis System”.    Could my pool be measuring incorrectly due to all the phosphates?  

I’m going to take another sample to the Pool Store and pick up some aqua check salt test strips as well.  (Never heard of them before)  

Will report those numbers when I get back.  

Thank you again!!!

 

 

[Mchristo]

Correction; before leaving for the pool store, I checked the AquaPure once more and general fault 121 coming up again.  Ugh!!!

thinking I should try adding more salt to rule out low salt as culprit? 

 

[Mchristo]

I took another water sample to pool store.  Numbers are:

free Chl 1.3, total Chl 1.5   PH 7.7,  Total Alk 100   Calcium Hardness 201.   Cyanuric Acid 54,  phosphates 2661,  SALT 2230.  

 

I purchased and tested with Aqua Chek salt strip and it looks like 6 or just over to me which is 2780 (pic attached) 

AquaPure sensor is currently showing 3200, Taylor salt test kit was 3000 this morning.  

 

It has been in and out of error for the day.  I just hut the pump off and cleaned the terminals of the DC cord and plugged back in.  Seems like turning it off and on resets the cell and it works for a while before going back into error and sometimes just goes back out of error too.  Also after turning the pump off and back on the salt reading is now down to 2900.  

Should I try adding more salt?  

Thanks again. 

 

[waterbear]

9 hours ago, Mchristo said:

salmon/brick red

If it turns brick red you've gone too far. It should be a very light salmon pink color.

 

9 hours ago, Mchristo said:

My pool builder recommends salt level at 2800-2900.

Jandy recommends 3000-3500 ppm Low salt conditions can lead to early cell failure! They also recommend CYA between 50 - 75 ppm (running it at the upper end is better so shoot for 75 ppm). Jandy also states  the CYA MUST be at 75 -85 ppm when water temperatures 85 degrees F or above. Don't depend on the builder, read the manual. Pool Builders build pools, many know little about operating them or adjusting water. (Sorry if I offend any builders reading this but it's true .)

 

3 hours ago, Mchristo said:

took another water sample to pool store.  Numbers are:

free Chl 1.3, total Chl 1.5   PH 7.7,  Total Alk 100   Calcium Hardness 201.   Cyanuric Acid 54,  phosphates 2661,  SALT 2230.  

How is the store testing? Strips, strips with a meter, Liquid reagents, testing disc inserted into a machine? How are they testing salt? Meter, Chemical test, strips?

12 hours ago, Mchristo said:

The printout from one pool store says they have “ClearCare Expert Water Analysis System”

Is there a meter or strip reader connected to it or are they entering the numbers manually? This system is designed to sell as much product as possible, much like the Bioguard Alex system, It's basically a customer database. The dosing calculations are basic and often conflicting since the computer doesn't understand the interactions between the various readings (and the pool store employee, more likely than not, doesn't either).

 

Chlorine levels are low, pH is fine, TA is too high, shoot for 70 ppm, calcium hardness is low for a plaster/aggregate pool, you risk etching the surface

CYA is low. Just barfely on the lower limit.

10 hours ago, Mchristo said:

Could my pool be measuring incorrectly due to all the phosphates

In a word, no. Phosphates are meaningless, just a way for the pool store to sell you product that you don't need  99% of the time.

 

Salt is way low. Should be about 1000 ppm higher

 

 

[Mchristo]

Thx Waterbear, 

I took my sample into the pool builders store and it was giving me some crazy numbers that couldn’t possibly make sense given the test results from monday morning.  I’m sorry I don’t know the system they use for testing.  They take a small siringe of water from my sample and inject it into a disk in a small machine.  That machine is plugged into their computer and it gives the numbers and the printout.  Not sure that answers your question, but it’s the best I can do right now.  I’ll ask for more specifics.  I’m disregarding their test as it made no sense and the guy performing the test agreed.  Unfortunately he dumped the rest of my water so couldn’t do another test on it.   The second pool store I took my sample to was a Leslies pool store and their test system looks similar.  I took a third sample into a different Leslie’s this afternoon and got numbers similar to the first Leslie’s. 

Here are the numbers from the two Leslie’s stores today with nothing added to the water between the two tests:

free chlorine   1.3 & 1.2

total Chlorine  1.5 & 1.44

PH  7.7 & 7.7

Total Alk 100 &100

Calcium Hardness 201 & 193

Cyanuric Acid 54 & 54

iron 0 & 0

Copper 0.2 & 0

Phosphates 2662 & 2716

Salt 2230 & 2191

My pools sensor was bouncing between 2900 and 3200 for the past couple of days.  The aquachek salt strip looks like it was at 6 which is 2780 according to the directions on the label.  

How do I lower Total Alkalinity without lowering the PH?  

Thank you again for your help!!!  

 

 

At about 6pm I added 80lbs of salt. 

Now at 11.30pm my SWG sensor is reading 3200ppm and just now a new AquaChek salt strip is now reading 6.4 on the strip which translates to 3220ppm salt.    

You are correct about the manual and the recommended CYA and Salt levels.  I will purchase more CYA tomorrow and add.  

 

 

 

 

[waterbear]

On 7/14/2023 at 12:02 AM, Mchristo said:

I’m sorry I don’t know the system they use for testing.  They take a small siringe of water from my sample and inject it into a disk in a small machine.  That machine is plugged into their computer and it gives the numbers and the printout.

LaMotte Waterlink Spin Touch Disc. Actually a very reliable system (when regularly cleaned and calibrated or results will be off) with a few limitations on some of the tests, notably CYA (it can read low under certain conditions depending on temperature), salt (will give inaccurate reading if water temperature is not between 68 deg F - 76 deg F), calcium harness (limitation of colorimetric test vs titration), total alkalinity (limitation of colorimetric test vs titration). (I went through LaMotte water testing training when I worked in the retail end of the industry and received their certification). HOWEVER, the Waterlink software is designed to sell product and the dosing recommendations don't take into account what chemicals need to be dosed separately or what order they should be applied when multiple adjustments are necessary. The dosing thresholds can also be set by the retailer, once again to increase product salts. Printouts are good for the numbers but that's about it.

 

On 7/14/2023 at 12:02 AM, Mchristo said:

My pools sensor was bouncing between 2900 and 3200 for the past couple of days.  The aquachek salt strip looks like it was at 6 which is 2780 according to the directions on the label.

salt is low. you want to get it up to about 3200-3500 ppm. Running the salt too low will damage the cell, if it has not already done so. Get your cell checked. See if the pool store can do it, not all can.

On 7/14/2023 at 12:02 AM, Mchristo said:

How do I lower Total Alkalinity without lowering the PH?

You can't. Read these to learn how to properly lower TA and understand the relationship between pH and TA:

https://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?/topic/28846-lowering-total-alkalinity-howto/

https://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?/topic/52523-some-truths-about-ph-and-ta/

On 7/14/2023 at 12:02 AM, Mchristo said:

At about 6pm I added 80lbs of salt. 

Now at 11.30pm my SWG sensor is reading 3200ppm and just now a new AquaChek salt strip is now reading 6.4 on the strip which translates to 3220ppm salt.    

Check it again in 24hours to allow time for all the salt to dissolve. If you are not above 3500 ppm you are good. if you are above 4000 ppm then drain some water and add fresh. High salt is as bad as low salt and can also shorten cell life.

[waterbear]

You might want to consider purchasing a Taylor K-2006 kit and test your own water. Check Amazon and online retailers for best price.This kit will make lowering TA easy. Don't get the K-2005 even though it's a bit cheaper. The DPD testing method for chlorine has many limitation when compared to the FAS-DPD testing method in the K-2006.

[Mchristo]

Thanks again Waterbear!  

I have a Poolmaster drop test kit that does Free Chlorine, PH and Acid Demand.   I find it way better than test strips.  

And of course I have the Taylor K1766 sodium Chloride salt test.

The AquaChek salt test strips I tried on two separate times the other night were both bang on 6.4.  

Looks like that Taylor 2006 kit does more tests than my poolmaster kit so I will pick it up.  

 

I think you were right. Salt was low because the cell was been going into error less frequently since I got it up to 3200.   

Of course we just got about 5” of rain last night and I had to drain a lot of water out of the pool.  Salt is down to 2800 again and the error has reappeared.  

I have 80lbs of salt that I can add and see if that fixes it again.   

I’ll mention the requirement of regular cleaning and calibrating of the LaMotte Waterlink Spin Touch Disc to my pool builder contact who is a great guy.  He doesnt have much to do with the service (water testing/retail) side, but will follow up with them to make sure they are doing the right things for their customers. 

I’ll let you know if the added salt corrects the error again.    Is the aquachek test strips the most reliable salt test?  

Thanks again!!! 

[waterbear]

22 hours ago, Mchristo said:

Looks like that Taylor 2006 kit does more tests than my tpoolmaster kit so I will pick it up.

It also allowed more precise , and wider range free chlorine and directly tests combined chlorine instead of testing total chlorine and using math to find the combined chlorine (FAS-DPD test method vs DPD test method), is less sensitive to inaccurate pH and TA readings because of high sanitizer levels. PoolMaster is an OK kit but has many limitations when compared to the Taylor kits.

 

22 hours ago, Mchristo said:

Is the aquachek test strips the most reliable salt test?

It's certainly the most fool proof for home users. It measures chloride ions, as does the Taylor kit. The problem with the Taylor kit is many people overshoot the endpoint and get a high reading. Chloride ion tests will never agree with conductivity tests such as your salt cell or a stand alone electronic salinity meter since they are measuring different things but they should be in the ballpark. Conductivity measurements by your salt cell can be affected by the amount of scale buildup on the cell, the age of the cell, the pH of the water, etc. Salt meters need to be calibrated regularly and the electrode has to be replaced on a regular schedule wither the meter is used or not.

IF the meter is properly cared for (and it's not a cheap one, good ones are well over $100) then I would rank that as best, followed by a properly done chemical test (Taylor has better precision +/- 200 ppm, while the strips have a more logarithmic scale.