Arctic Spa Jets

[Richs100]

Hey Tom:

Thank you for providing us with that additional information. I think it is important to know that.

Also, be assured that I did not intend to insult or impune you personally. In my limited experience on this board you have always been upfront and helpful. It was just that the earlier communication made me think twice about what Artic's final position was in this.

Hopefully, Artic is examining this situation and will take the appropriate steps to make the customer whole. (IMO, someone at Artic may also want to take a look at how the dealer may be responding to the BBB inquiry)

Thanks,

Rich

[Atali Awa]

Atali, you have my sympathy also. I sincerely wish to see you aided and your concerns resolved. However, my mandate is to leave this issue with our managers until a solution is reached. The statement to which Rich refers was approved by the managers of Warranty and Customer Service, and the VP Marketing.

Overall we offer a high-quality product. This is a matter not of belief, but of knowledge. I have spent a year on the production floor (still work there one day a week!) so I know the product, the production process, the quality checks. I am proud of what the company has achieved over the past decade and of my part in this achievement during the past four years.

Which unfortunately doesn't mean much to a customer with a problem. Dang, I feel so frustrated. But I know that other customers in similar situations have been helped and I fully expect that you will be too.

Tom;

I realize you have tried to help and I appreciate the effort. My employer is a 3.2 billion global company who's culture is Kaizen from top to bottom. We maintain a zero defect manufacturing environment, build industrial automation products with a 28 year mean first failure and have warranty claims with less than 0.003% of what we build. I've been doing field applications, troubleshooting and root cause failure analysis for 26 years. I have a clear understanding of what quality is (you may recall that I selected Arctic after considerable research). I truly understand why you believe in your product.

The fact is I am being squeezed between Arctic and the Arctic Authorized Dealer. For roughly five months I have been cooperative, patient and attempted to be helpful in finding the root cause of the problem. At this stage, it no longer matters to me if it's the plastic, Baqua or a combination of the two. I payed the asking price for the spa and full retail for almost $200 in chemicals. I have relied on my dealer for guidance and followed his direction. I have been truthful and forthcoming with information in an effort to help solve the problem and have not misrepresented even the smallest of details. I have been treated with indifference by the one Arctic warranty person I have spoken to and the dealer has now resorted to supposition and fabrication in his own defense. Arctic is a $65 million international company who asserts quality of product and exellence of service as key reason to purchase Arctic over competitive brands. Satisfying the consumer in this case would involve an imperceivable blip on the bottom line. My perception is that Arctic simply does not care about me or my situation (OK, Tom excluded). I appreciate your expectation that I, too will be helped... However, until the Managers of Warranty & Customer Service and the VP of Manufacturing get directly involved, the dealer will continue to be allowed to drive this train wreck.

My high quality Arctic spa has been drained, cleaned (as of April 29) and is simply taking up space on the 16' x 40' concrete deck I built for it (there are almost no remaining jets to enjoy). It remains as a constant reminder that I have been royally screwed by the local Arctic dealer and an unconcerned, uncaring manufacturer. I have always believed that honesty, integrity and the Golden Rule were enough to get along in the is world... Clearly, I have been hallucinating for all these years. The corporate bottom line rules and Arctic's indifference has added something less than 0.0001321% to their's (only had the retail price to divide by $65 million).

Why are we still talking about this? Isn't it time for this disgruntled, unreasonable customer to realize that Arctic is not going to make it right and that he should stop making a fuss?

[Richs100]

Boy, after reading that update, my stomach hurts.

What a nightmare.

[Atali Awa]

Hopefully, Artic is examining this situation and will take the appropriate steps to make the customer whole. (IMO, someone at Artic may also want to take a look at how the dealer may be responding to the BBB inquiry)

I just went to my local BBB homepage to check the status of my complaint and there on the front page is an advertisement for the local Arctic dealer. I clicked on the link and find that this dealer continues to promote Baqua... Unbelievable!!!

[104 Degrees]

I just went to my local BBB homepage to check the status of my complaint and there on the front page is an advertisement for the local Arctic dealer. I clicked on the link and find that this dealer continues to promote Baqua... Unbelievable!!!

Thats how the BBB works. there not consumer reports.

[Tom]

Tom;

I realize you have tried to help and I appreciate the effort.

Thank you for that, anyway.

Isn't it time for this disgruntled, unreasonable customer to realize that Arctic is not going to make it right and that he should stop making a fuss?

"If the customer's expectation is to have the spa replaced or his money refunded because of a chemical problem, we feel that these are unreasonable demands. The dealer has offered us evidence of chemical imbalance. Any dispute over this is between the customer and the dealer.

"There has been an offer on the table for some time. Arctic has offered to replace all the jets in his system, free of charge, provided that he drain his pool and switch to a bromine system. This offer exceeds our requirements under the warranty. If the customer continues to reject this offer, we are at an impasse."

-- Statement issued by James Keirstead, owner and VP Marketing

[Pathfinder]

Im surprised, you'd think we were talking about Calspas

I can see this not going away.

I dont see why the dealer & Arctic dont bite the bullet take the tub back replace the Jets and sell it as a demo and the customer will pay normal costs for removal and new install of tub or refund money less removal costs and sell as a demo. This is not that difficult

[Atali Awa]

Thank you for that, anyway.

"If the customer's expectation is to have the spa replaced or his money refunded because of a chemical problem, we feel that these are unreasonable demands. The dealer has offered us evidence of chemical imbalance. Any dispute over this is between the customer and the dealer.

"There has been an offer on the table for some time. Arctic has offered to replace all the jets in his system, free of charge, provided that he drain his pool and switch to a bromine system. This offer exceeds our requirements under the warranty. If the customer continues to reject this offer, we are at an impasse."

-- Statement issued by James Keirstead, owner and VP Marketing

Dear Arctic Spas;

The jets have been replaced with three different types from Rising Dragon Online via Arctic via the dealer. They are made from polycarbonate which degrades from heat, humidity and some chemical classes. Sooner or later these jets are going to degrade and break. A more suitable material should be selected for the environment to which these jets are exposed. If Baqua Spa products are a problem for Arctic spas then the use of the chemical should be written into the warranty and consumers advised accordingly.

I have indisputable evidence in the form of the dealer's own printed water analysis reports that I have managed the chemicals according to his recommendations. I challenge the dealer to produce evidence indicating otherwise. No one from Arctic has asked for or taken the time to view this documentation. The dealer has admitted to not saving any of these reports (except possibly the one from 4/4/07). I'm not sure what other type evidence the dealer can produce.

From the dealer's reports:

11/27/2006 Sanitizer level 22 - Low

12/23/2006 Sanitizer level 17 - Low

1/3/2007 Sanitizer level 13 - Low

1/10/2007 Sanitizer level 0 - Low

1/19/2007 Sanitizer level 32 - OK

1/31/2007 Sanitizer level 23 - Low

2/9/2007 Sanitizer level 19 - Low

2/16/2007 Sanitizer level 26 - Low

2/23/2007 Sanitizer level 20 - Low

3/7/2007 Sanitizer level 38 - OK

3/23/2007 Sanitizer level 16 - Low

4/4/2007 Sanitizer level 52 - High

I am a truthful and honest person. I have not misrepresented the facts as I know them. I have not intentionally or accidently mis-managed the spa chemicals or made false accusations. I am totally dissatisfied with the product and service and the situation continues to deteriorate along the with the plastic.

Kudos to you Mr James Keirstead for having the courage to issue a statement. My belief is that if you take a detailed look at the true facts of this scenario, you may also have the courage to do the right thing.

[soakerman]

Thank you for that, anyway.

"If the customer's expectation is to have the spa replaced or his money refunded because of a chemical problem, we feel that these are unreasonable demands. The dealer has offered us evidence of chemical imbalance. Any dispute over this is between the customer and the dealer.

"There has been an offer on the table for some time. Arctic has offered to replace all the jets in his system, free of charge, provided that he drain his pool and switch to a bromine system. This offer exceeds our requirements under the warranty. If the customer continues to reject this offer, we are at an impasse."

-- Statement issued by James Keirstead, owner and VP Marketing

Had this been purchased through Costco, returning it for Any reason including a chemical problem wouldn't be unreasonable at all. This is a time where Coscto spas simply surpass the dealership in ultimate customer satisfaction. This isn't about a warranty but doing the right thing and I bet the Biguanide/Bacqua has messed up more then the jets and to simply leave that risk on the customer is simply outrages! I Hope Arctic steps up to the plate and does the right thing without relying on the dealer as they won't. BTW..... These arent those cheap ten dollar jets that Roger eluded to in the Costco spa are they?

[francishsu]

It's disturbing that no corrective action appears to be happening as a result of this issue. No change to the documentation and warranty information warning against Baguanide/Baqua use. Even if this specific case is resolved with a refund or replacement, it seems that there will be no accountability and no corrective action. A simple Google search of Baqua and Arctic reveals at least two dealers who prominently sell Baqua along with Arctic Spas. One of them even has a testimonial from a customer commenting how pleased they are using Baqua with their Arctic spa.

[Atali Awa]

"If the customer's expectation is to have the spa replaced or his money refunded because of a chemical problem, we feel that these are unreasonable demands.

-- Statement issued by James Keirstead, owner and VP Marketing

What is unreasonable about this situation is more than 90 jet failures in less than 5 months, an Arctic dealer selling and recommending a product that Arctic says is wrong and then teaming up to blame and discredit the consumer.

[Trigger]

What is unreasonable about this situation is more than 90 jet failures in less than 5 months, an Arctic dealer selling and recommending a product that Arctic says is wrong and then teaming up to blame and discredit the consumer.

Is there anything else the baqua treated water was in contact with that could degrade, other than the jets? Contol knobs, trim peices, pulmpinp. fittings etc? Anything?

Originally I thought, ok, they should replace all the jets AND refund your money for the chemicals, but if there is any chance of anything else failing due to this mess, I would only accept a new tub, or my money back. Honeslty, I doubt you'll get it, but that's what I press for.

Keep it vocal and if you can deal with Keristead directly (there are ways to get his fax and email) and let him know you are not going to drop this he may realize that Artic, as a coporpation needs to own this, for allowing thier dealers to recomend inompatable products.

[Atali Awa]

Is there anything else the baqua treated water was in contact with that could degrade, other than the jets? Contol knobs, trim peices, pulmpinp. fittings etc? Anything?

Originally I thought, ok, they should replace all the jets AND refund your money for the chemicals, but if there is any chance of anything else failing due to this mess, I would only accept a new tub, or my money back. Honeslty, I doubt you'll get it, but that's what I press for.

Keep it vocal and if you can deal with Keristead directly (there are ways to get his fax and email) and let him know you are not going to drop this he may realize that Artic, as a coporpation needs to own this, for allowing thier dealers to recomend inompatable products.

I have repeatedly and exhaustively asked what other components are in contact and affected by the Baqua. Arctic and the dealer ignore the request and refuse to reply. They appear to be hoping that I will lose hope and settle for the replaced jets. This will release them from any liability when other components begain to fail. If what they are saying about the Baqua is true, any part of this spa made from a polycarbonate type material will eventually embrittle and break.

I am not a litigous person and have never been a party to a legal action. No offense to the legal community but the best way to resolve a situation like this is between the involved parties. There is no way I will come out of this a winner financially. The best I can hope for is to help keep other consumers from falling into the same trap. Arctic clearly underestimates my resolve.

[klt1200]

Atlia you have my heart felt sympathy. I am also dealing with Arctic issues with a dealer in Northern VA. I am using the Arctic line of chemicals and as I run out I am purchasing products with the same active ingredients - I fortunately have only had two jets fail so far. My Tub was built in 03/05 (which is another issue), I believe the dealers use a generic "Water Issue" as a catch all. In my dealers response to the BBB they mentioned a horrible smell coming from the tub and that I told them I will not care for the water because I want to get a refund. The horrible smell is from the cover which has stayed outside at the dealership since 11/04. The cover was closed for 8 days because I was on a business trip and my wife is so disgusted with the entire episode she refuses to use it. I checked the water when I returned and found the readings low but within limits. The water defense is going to be used as a catch all for just about anybody that has an issue. Artic is going to believe their dealer not you/me.

The Arctic Corp still has yet to contact me in regards to my complaints - Its a shame such a AWESOME spa can provide so much angst. I really have no clue what will happen if I can not return the Spa - who will service it? Who can you go to locally for information or help.

I should have known better.

Good Luck

[ciderjack]

Polycarbonate is the material that Baquaspa attacks. If the jets are made from polycarbonate, the dealer/manufacturer should specifically say that Baqua spa/baqua spa type products should not be used.

[Tom]

I think it is time to cool this down.

Our offer to replace all the jets in his system--using the latest two-tone version which are far more resistant to popouts--still stands. The dealer has offered to credit the Baqua products to the customer and GIVE him an alternate chemical system free of charge. We feel that these actions are both reasonable and fair and beyond what is required under our warranty.

I do not wish to take action unilaterally (I prefer to regard the moderators as a team).

Tom

Lock the thread, block the poster. I back you on this. Be sure that somewhere in the thread the info you just typed above is available.

Chas

Arctic appears, from where I'm sitting, to be willing to more than to "go beyond the call of duty" and take care of a problem, that I'm not sure is their responsibility to begin with. A manufacturer is NOT responsible for most actions of their dealers (though it's not unheard of to pull a dealership for bad business practices)

Arctic makes a very high quality spa, but like anything else in life, $hit happens. WELCOME TO LIFE. Did Dorthy ask for compensation when she discovered a brick missing from the yellow brick road? NO, she walked around it.

Dr. Spa

- - -

The rest of the story: Atali Awa has a satisfactory resolution. Please see this post for the outcome.

Edited May 9, 2007 by Tom