Looking For 2-3 Person Hot Tub

[wookinpanub]

Hello all,
I'm getting into the market for a new hot tub and have been reading across a number of sites to determine the manufacturers I wanted to narrow down to. I'd like to get others thoughts on the direction I'm heading.

My considerations:

1. Energy Efficiency: This will be in a Net-Zero, Passive type house. I need to kep a close eye on energy consumption.
2. Reliability / Ease of Maintenance: The house will be located in a very remote location in Colorado (2 hours west of Colorado Springs), not easy to get a repair man to.
3. For 2-3 ppl: My wife and I have no children, and don't anticipate entertaining often
4. Well insulated: House will be at 9k elevation, but will be located inside a Solarium room (triple pane windows / R60 ceiling)

Based on recommended manufacturers I've read about consistently, these are the models I have currently on my list:

• D1 (Dupree Bay and Triad)
• Hot Springs (Jetsetter)
• Jacuzzi (J-315)
• Sundance (Dover and Capri)
• Caldera (Kauai)
• Arctic Spas (Arctic Fox)

My questions:

1. In the absence of a consistent testing standard and from what I've read, the relative efficiency / cost to operate will be relatively close for all of these?
2. Within these models, can I assume the same in regards to reliability / maintenance for the most part?
3. My wife and I love captains chairs / loungers, oriented in the same direction being a plus. The only two I've found like this are the Dupree Bay and the Hibiscus (Artestion Spas) - any others I have missed?

I know the importance of the wet test, not quite there yet

Thanks in advance for the help!

[Spa_Guru]

Everything on your list is within a percentage point of each other

Sundance/D1/Jacuzzi (San Diego) are all one company, as is Hot Springs/Caldera.(San Diego-Mexico) Arctic/Apollo is the third entity - (Thornsby Alberta CA)

The real difference is going to be your dealer, look for the one that has been in business a couple of decades and has a well established service department.

[Dan The Spa Man]

As a 11 year veteran of the spa community, I would suggest looking into Catalina Spas. They are American made (Only Artic Spas can claim that from your current list) and have the largest warranty available on the market. They are a true thermolock tub (Energy-efficient/Well insulated) and their #1 export country is Canada (There is no difference between the builds in US/Canada, so it will combat the elements nicely).

As a Catalina dealer, of course I am biased. The other spas you mentioned above are indeed great brands. However, after a thorough investigation of what Catalina has to offer, I am confident that their brand is superior.

I recommend the XL8000 or XL9000 (One has a lounger, one doesn't). I would contact a dealer for further information and (Fullest Exclosure) Catalina's website is rather sub-par. But that aside, I do like the brand as a whole.

Good luck in your search.

[Hot Spring Ace]

As a 11 year veteran of the spa community, I would suggest looking into Catalina Spas. They are American made (Only Artic Spas can claim that from your current list) and have the largest warranty available on the market. They are a true thermolock tub (Energy-efficient/Well insulated) and their #1 export country is Canada (There is no difference between the builds in US/Canada, so it will combat the elements nicely).

As a Catalina dealer, of course I am biased. The other spas you mentioned above are indeed great brands. However, after a thorough investigation of what Catalina has to offer, I am confident that their brand is superior.

I recommend the XL8000 or XL9000 (One has a lounger, one doesn't). I would contact a dealer for further information and (Fullest Exclosure) Catalina's website is rather sub-par. But that aside, I do like the brand as a whole.

Good luck in your search.

Jetsetter is built in Vista, CA and IMO there is no more energy efficent spa out there.

[Spa_Guru]

As a 11 year veteran of the spa community, I would suggest looking into Catalina Spas. They are American made (Only Artic Spas can claim that from your current list) and have the largest warranty available on the market. They are a true thermolock tub (Energy-efficient/Well insulated) and their #1 export country is Canada (There is no difference between the builds in US/Canada, so it will combat the elements nicely).

As a Catalina dealer, of course I am biased. The other spas you mentioned above are indeed great brands. However, after a thorough investigation of what Catalina has to offer, I am confident that their brand is superior.

I recommend the XL8000 or XL9000 (One has a lounger, one doesn't). I would contact a dealer for further information and (Fullest Exclosure) Catalina's website is rather sub-par. But that aside, I do like the brand as a whole.

Good luck in your search.

Jetsetter is built in Vista, CA and IMO there is no more energy efficent spa out there.

Don't you mean Tijuana, Mexico?

Hot springs is Headquartered in Vista, but manufactured in Mexico.

http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=773155

[Hot Spring Ace]

As a 11 year veteran of the spa community, I would suggest looking into Catalina Spas. They are American made (Only Artic Spas can claim that from your current list) and have the largest warranty available on the market. They are a true thermolock tub (Energy-efficient/Well insulated) and their #1 export country is Canada (There is no difference between the builds in US/Canada, so it will combat the elements nicely).

As a Catalina dealer, of course I am biased. The other spas you mentioned above are indeed great brands. However, after a thorough investigation of what Catalina has to offer, I am confident that their brand is superior.

I recommend the XL8000 or XL9000 (One has a lounger, one doesn't). I would contact a dealer for further information and (Fullest Exclosure) Catalina's website is rather sub-par. But that aside, I do like the brand as a whole.

Good luck in your search.

Jetsetter is built in Vista, CA and IMO there is no more energy efficent spa out there.

Don't you mean Tijuana, Mexico?

Hot springs is Headquartered in Vista, but manufactured in Mexico.

http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=773155

No I was 100% correct in my original statement that Jetsetters are made in Vista, CA.

This has been discussed in the past so its not like its news. The link you had is correct in that Watkins does have a manufacturing plant in Tijuana where Hot Spots and Limelights are built but the main plant is still in Vista, Ca and it is not just a headquarters. Maybe you're thinking of Jacuzzi and Sundance that moved all their manufacturing operations south of the border but the Hot Spring Highlife spas have always been and continue to be 100% manufactured in California (from thermoforming to wrapping of the finished spa and everything in between). To be specific that includes the Grandee, Vista, Envoy, Aria, Vanguard, Prodigy and Jetsetter models.

[wookinpanub]

Thanks very much for the inputs everyone.

The true evaluation of energy efficiency is almost impossible and that's frustrating. For example looking at the Dupree Bay they use a foam fill on the tub and indicate its a R63 insulating value. Being familiar with the ccSPF 2.0 insulation they are referring to, and that it's roughly R5.7 to R6 per inch that would mean 10-11 inches of that foam - and I can't see how that is physically possible. And if those insulation numbers can't be relied on, then the estimated electrical usage of ~$10 / month has even less credibility in my eyes.

And they all use numbers like this, so I truly have no idea how to evaluate their efficiencies. If others have ideas please let me know. Thanks

[dodgyswa]

Hello,

Unless you are already set with the list of options, I would add Marquis to the list. They have 2 tubs for 2/3 people, The Spirit and The Rendevous.. Plus they have one That is slighty larger, The Mirage, which lists capacity of 4/5 persons, but in reality it only sits 3 persons comfortably. I own a Mirage and have been extremely happy with it. plus the Mirage has the captains chair and lounger facing in the same direction. Can't really help with engergy efficiency stats, but all I know is my electric bills have been much lower with my Mirage, compared to my previous tub. If you had any Marquis questions (insulation, etc), I believe Spa_Guru could help you since he has already posted here. Good luck with your search!. all the best

[Hot Spring Ace]

Thanks very much for the inputs everyone.

The true evaluation of energy efficiency is almost impossible and that's frustrating. For example looking at the Dupree Bay they use a foam fill on the tub and indicate its a R63 insulating value. Being familiar with the ccSPF 2.0 insulation they are referring to, and that it's roughly R5.7 to R6 per inch that would mean 10-11 inches of that foam - and I can't see how that is physically possible. And if those insulation numbers can't be relied on, then the estimated electrical usage of ~$10 / month has even less credibility in my eyes.

And they all use numbers like this, so I truly have no idea how to evaluate their efficiencies. If others have ideas please let me know. Thanks

The Hot Spring Jetsetter will be energy efficient not just because it fully foamed but beacuse the shell is sprayed with 30# foam and then 3.5#. The cabinet walls are then generously sprayed with 3.5# and 2.5#. The cavity is then filled with 0.5# , topped with a little 2.5# and then covered with a hard coat of 40# for a sealed spa bottom. That multi-density layering approach is tops for energy efficiency IMHO.

[Spa_Guru]

The devil is in the details of how spas are tested, and by who tests them, it's usually the manufacturer.

The fine print might read "Ambient temperature of 72 degrees"

R values claimed are impossible when the upper portion of the spa has only 6-8 inches of space between the shell and cabinet.

Some, like Clearwater, claim reflectivity and R-22 with only 2" of Styrofoam.

I don't think any of the major manufacturers actually clearly win in the efficiency game, or they would guarantee it - yet nobody does.

[Dan The Spa Man]

The devil is in the details of how spas are tested, and by who tests them, it's usually the manufacturer.

The fine print might read "Ambient temperature of 72 degrees"

R values claimed are impossible when the upper portion of the spa has only 6-8 inches of space between the shell and cabinet.

Some, like Clearwater, claim reflectivity and R-22 with only 2" of Styrofoam.

I don't think any of the major manufacturers actually clearly win in the efficiency game, or they would guarantee it - yet nobody does.

Agreed and a great point you highlight: Most manufacturers indeed quote efficiency stats but fail to shed light on what that entails. Most efficiency ratings are based on conditions at their home plants in California, Mexico, etc.

Efficiency ratings, in my humble opinion, are a non-issue. Some shells do not sit directly on the frame/cabinet, some tubs have air injection that relies on an external source, and so on, so forth. The bottom line is that the meter doesn't move quite as much as one would lead you to believe. In today's hyper-competitive sales environment, any difference, no matter how small, must be scrutinized to the fullest extent possible. If your main reason for choosing Spa A over Spa B comes down to efficiency, I hope it is because you have already explored other features first. Things like frame construction/build, shell & design, warranty, overall ability to move water, parts used, and who your local dealer is are all more important factors.

Great chat all!

[Water Boy]

1. My wife and I love captains chairs / loungers, oriented in the same direction being a plus. The only two I've found like this are the Dupree Bay and the Hibiscus (Artestion Spas) - any others I have missed?

Unless I misunderstood your question, the Arctic Fox has the main captains chair and lounnger facing the same direction(side by side). The Fox is a very popluar model in our store, as it is one of our top sellers. You can get the Fox in a one pump or two pump option. You are looking at all good brands IMO. So, as others have said, do your homework on the local dealers, and wet test if you can. Good luck!

[Spa_Guru]

The 322 by Marquis.