barlav Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 I am a new spa owner since August. I have a Hotsprings Envoy spa. After reading and learning about the Dichlor/Bleach method I have decided to try it out because it makes sense and seems right for me. I have ordered the Taylor K-2006 test kit as well as some Gentle Spa (for borates I believe?). I am draining soon and starting fresh. My question is should I target a specific TA or just go with what I have? My water will be about the following out of the hose: Alkalinity 100 mg/L; pH 7.75; and total hardness 136 mg/L. I will run 102 degrees and will cap out CYA at 30 before switching to bleach. Plugging these into the pool calculator it comes out with a CSI of 0.05 which seems ok? My concern is pH rise with eventual bleach use with a TA that high. Should I just go with it or should I target a lower TA and higher Total Hardness to help with pH rise? Or will pH rise only be temporary and be ok with these numbers. Thanks for any insights! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegastubbin Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 I run 60 ta with same method. Dichlor bleach , but my ch is at 250. After I add bleach my ph comes back to stable always. So even with your ch at 115 I think I would target some where within 60-70 for you as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barlav Posted October 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 I was leaning that way for a lower TA. But I probably should raise CH as well to keep the CSI balanced right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arches2 Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 don't worry about CSI in a fiberglass tub. It doesn't really matter. General rule of thumb on TA: don't worry about it. Find a point where your PH is stable and that's where your TA should be (above 50 minimum). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barlav Posted October 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 I just received the Taylor Test kit and verified the following water parameters fresh from the hose: CH: 140ppm pH: 7.4 TA: 110ppm Is there any reason to adjust any of these now in anticipation of using dichlor/bleach sanitation method? Or should I run with this as is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterbear Posted October 6, 2012 Report Share Posted October 6, 2012 :Lower the TA. You want it below 80 ppm. Shoot for 70 as a starting point., especially if you are adding borate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barlav Posted October 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2012 OK. Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegastubbin Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 From my experience ph will not be stable until u reach around 60/70 ak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barlav Posted October 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 Thanks. Did water change Sat. afternoon and brought TA down to 60. So far so good. I didn't get Gentle Spa (for borate) until day after water change so when I added that it rasied TA and pH a bit so I lowered it back down. Seems like pH settled to 7.6/7.7 with TA of 60 and CH of 250. Spa got a lot of use yesterday so I'm already up to about 20 CYA after initial shock and yesterday's use so I will be switching over to bleach soon. I have found the Taylor test kit to be easy to use and so much more accurate than test strips. And, after reading what the test kit booklet says about CYA and various ordinances of what max levels should be, I am even more convinced that dichlor/bleach is the way to go to minimize CYA. Still trying to figure out best routine of when and how much chlorine to add based on CD and spa usage. I leveled out FC to 5-6ppm and I'm currently estimating 1.5ppm per person per 15 minutes and that seems to keep FC at about 5-6. My CD seems to be about 50% so each morning I am planning on adding 3ppm and running clean cycle. Should become an easy routine once I get used to it. I have found the old test strips useful for a quick FC test so I will continue to use those just for that. Now I am curious to see how long the water will last. I am hoping 6 months but we'll see.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegastubbin Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 I've also been shocking to 5 or 6 and it works great. After a month or so on this method my cya is still perfect and my Tds is only at 1200 and that's great. I should be able to go at least 4 or 5 months on a fill. I also use the Taylor k 2006 kit. But for Cya and Tds I take a sample to the pool store they have a bigger cya meter and its more accurate, and the Tds is great for measuring salts. After a couple weeks of adding bleach this method seems almost perfect. Just have to check every couple days for a couple minutes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterbear Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Meters for testing CYA are NOT always more accurate. For example, The Taylor CYA test has an accurcy of +/- 10 ppm while the LaMotte Waterlink Express (with it's $1000 meter) has an accuracy of =10/-25 ppm which means it is possible for the CYA to be higher than the test reads by as much as 25 ppm as opposed to 10 ppm for the Taylor test. Strip readers for CYA are even worse. Just because a meter is used tor testing does not make it more accurate than other testing methods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegastubbin Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 Well the meter they use was just for Tds so not really to worried about that seeing as we can go pretty high with the salts say 2500. Didn't mean to say meter but for the Cya is just a bigger tub and more added acid. And it's a reverse caculation compared to my Taylor instead of dot disappearing it reads when u can see the dot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barlav Posted October 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 I noticed that +/- 10ppm variation in the Taylor test kit for CYA. I kept track of how much dichlor I added and when I calculated I should be at about 30 CYA I did a test and it read about 40. I wasn't too concerned since I knew either way it was time to start using the bleach. I will probably test every month for CYA and switch back to dichlor for a day or so if it lowers too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterbear Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 TDS is a bogus measurement. It is not the AMOUNT of ionic material in the water that is a problem, it is the ionic species. Some, like sodium and choride ions, do not present any problems. Others, like calcium, sulfate, and cyanyurate ions (from cal hypo, mps, and dichlor) can be a problem if their level is too high. The CYA test you describe is one with the cylinder with the plunger that rises the black dot up and down. It is not inherently better than a view tube with the dot at the bottom, but is what is commonly used for in store testing because it is faster. You could purchase one from Taylor (or from their subdistrubutor if you are not in the US) if you wanted but it uses a much larger size sample (20 ml if memory serves me) so you would go through CYA reagent much faster. You could also purchase a larger view tube and larger mixing bottle from Taylor. It is not any more accurate and any one will produce viable results. The larger view tube and the cylinder can measure down to 20 ppm, instead of 30 ppm but use twice as much reagent (15 ml vs 7 ml for the K-2006 variation of the test.). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chem geek Posted October 11, 2012 Report Share Posted October 11, 2012 We've found that CYA drops by around 5 ppm per month in hot spas so figure a day or two of Dichlor per month to keep the CYA constant while most of the time you would be using bleach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barlav Posted October 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2012 Great info! Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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