desertdweller Posted September 2, 2012 Report Share Posted September 2, 2012 Hello, I have been trying to sift through all of the information out there and now I am more confused than ever. We recently had our new HotSprings Vanguard model Spa set up. The salesman and the electrician both told us to use it the first day with the fresh water and treat the water after we are done with the MPS they gave us. We have a large family. The spa looked beautiful and crystal clear the first few hours after set up. But after several people were in it, it turned slightly off color and slightly cloudy. Our spa is equipped with an Ozonator. I treated the spa in the first evening after lots of use with MPS (a normal dose). In the morning of day 2, the water was still slightly cloudy and slightly off color (yellowish greenish - slightly). Definitely not the clear it was. There is really no odor. When I used a simple test strip (that the company gave me) which tested for MPS/ALK/pH, our Spa tested very low in the MPS, average range in the ALK, and slightly low in the pH. It being Sunday and having no other chemicals available, I added a slighly larger dose of the MPS that was given us (about 6 TBSP for 400 gal). I waited an hour or so and tested again, then the MPS was in the bright purple, high range, the ALK was avg, and the pH was still a bit low. I then added 2 TBSP of baking soda (not wanting to add too much and having no other chemicals). I waited another hour hoping the MPS levels would be in the normal range. At the 3rd test the MPS was still high, the ALK was in normal range still, and the pH was still a tad low. The water still looks the same, not pretty and clear. The Ozonator works all the time (24 hrs). I am so new to this and there is so much conflicting information, that I am very unsure about how to get my water clear and safe for my family to use again. Please help? Thanks for much for your precious time! ~Desertdweller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topspeed007 Posted September 2, 2012 Report Share Posted September 2, 2012 1st thing to do is not use the spa until you have chemicals. Look for a local reputable co ( not the co you bought spa from as it appears they don't know what they're doing either). You can either go Chlorine or as most spa owners prefer Bromine - it's more stable in hot water and doesn't give off 'the swimming pool' smell when you open the cover. You should also purchase a proper test kit - not strips as these aren't overly accurate. There are several threads on setting up your spa depending on which method you choose. You have had a bad start but have found your way to this forum and most on here have nothing but excellent advice - being conscientious spa owners ourselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertdweller Posted September 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2012 I don't see how to post my photos of it... Is is possible that there are just too many contaminants for the spa to clear up. Will it take time or more chemicals? thanks again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertdweller Posted September 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2012 Thanks for that reply. I asked about chemicals when I purchased the Spa. They told me the only chemicals I needed are included (which is the MPS they gave me). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertdweller Posted September 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2012 So I guess you have to use Chlorine or Bromine even with the Ozone System and MPS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topspeed007 Posted September 2, 2012 Report Share Posted September 2, 2012 Yes. Ozone helps kill organic matter and makes the water look clean but it isn't a whole solution. MPS is shock but you have nothing in your spa to 'shock' - for that you need Bromine or Chlorine. Read either Waterbear's or Nitros threads - they helped me no end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertdweller Posted September 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2012 Wow, thanks for the help. I specifically asked when I purchased the Spa. Crazy that I was not told this! My profile pic is the way the Spa looks right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterbear Posted September 2, 2012 Report Share Posted September 2, 2012 Does your spa have a Nature2 type "mineral" cartridge in the filter? Hotsrpings called it a "Freshwater Continuous Silver Ion Purifier" or some such nonsense but it is just a rebranded Zodiac Nature 2 cartridge and even has the Zodiac Natuer 2 logo on the box! (the blue square on its side that says Nature 2 int he upper left of the box)What makes me suspect this is the use of test strips that test for MPS. These cartridges add silver to the water and the silver in conjunction with the hot water and MPS residual are your santizer. MPS on it's own is NOT a sanitizer! This is another EPA approved sanitizer system in addition to either chlorine or bromine (or biguanide) but it does require weekly use of chlorine as a shock. Also, the cartridge has to be replaced every 4 month when you change the water and you MUST start up by shocking with chlorine to activate the cartridge. However, it is imperative to shock the spa initially and weekly or more often after that with chlorine to activate the mineral cartridge and to remove any biofilm so it continues to add silver to the water (it contains ceramic beads impregnated with silver nitrate). Here are the Nature 2 instructions from the Zodiac website. If you follow them exactly you will not have any problems but in the mean time you need to shock the spa with chlorine until the water clears and then shock weekly with chlorine as per the instructions. The ozone is not a substitute since it is not residual in the water. FWIW, both the spa salesm and and the electrician gave you bad information (imagine that, an electrician not being an expert on spa water chemistry :rolleyes: ) and I suspect neither one has ever read the instructions packed with the mineral cartridge. If you do NOT have a mineral cartridge in the filter they gave you even worse advise since you do not have a sanitizer in the spa at all! :wacko: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertdweller Posted September 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2012 WaterBear: Thank you! I have been going through the manual and of course they are generic depending on which spa you own. I am not finding information specifically on the components of the Spa we purchased even in the "Owner's Manual". I am really guessing we have the mineral cartridge as this place sells a lot of these Spas and they were very clear about the chemicals that we needed. Still, I see it was bad advice. Today my ALK and pH tested perfect but of course the MPS dropped back down to LOW overnight. I was planning to purchase HotSprings FreshWater Concentrated Chlorinating Granules. Does that sound right? We have a large family (7 kids), so I have been adding MPS every night. I expect we need to do more than the average family to keep the water clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterbear Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 Check inside the filter to see if you have the mineral cartridge. I am not a fan of silver/MPS and prefer chlorine or bromine but it does work if you follow the instruction.(If it doesn't the water turns cloudy, greenish, and smellly) If you have a very high bather load you might need to shock with chlorine more than once a week, btw. IF you do not have a mineral cartridge the MPS alone will not saniize the water, you will need to go with either chlorine or bromine and you will also need a good test kit (you really need one anyway!) For chlorine the Taylor K-2006 is recommeded, for Bromine the K-2106. For Silver/MPS the K-2006 with the MPS reagent added to the kit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaTub Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 Given that they gave you what sounds like Nature2 test strips and MPS to add you almost certainly have the cartridge- but you absolutely need to confirm this. We are on Nature2 and it has worked fine for us once we got it figured out. But you have to follow the instructions on startup. Are you positive that the technician did not add any dichlor when the tub was first filled? No matter what you do you will need to adjust your chem additions based on bather load. If you have 7 kids in and out of the tub it is going to take a lot of chems to keep the water clear. And with a bather load that heavy MPS alone is definitely not going to be enough- you will need to add chlorine too. It will take some trial and error to figure out how much for your tub usage. Spend some time here reading through posts on Nature 2 and chlorine systems and you will get a better idea of what you need to do. Dark purple on the N2 strip is not a worry- it won't stay that way for long if you use the tub. What is a worry is not putting enough MPS in so that it drops to 0 by next morning. Also the N2 strips are fine for measuring MPS level but agree with everyone else here that you should get a real test kit to measure everything else. Especially since the tub is new I would consider draining and re-filling, this time adding dichlor on the fill-up per the instructions. You can re-use the cartridge that you have (assuming that you have one in there.) Once you get things straight then be sure to read the sticky post at the top of the forum about adding dichlor and buildup of CYA. Even though we are on Nature2 we switch over to bleach for chlorine adds once CYA is built up to over 30 or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterbear Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 Be aware that very high MPS levels can be irritating to some, more so that either using a chlorine or bromine sanitation system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpeck1981 Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 This answered some of my questions as well. I got a used hot tub and decontaminated using Nitro's method, but when I filled it the lady at the store told me to only shock with dichlor weekly and use primarily MPS. She didn't do a good job of explaining that the Nature 2 ionizer was the reason for this and I had a test kit that didn't check MPS. I was very converned by my chlorine levels and ended up draining tub and going to the Dichlor/Bleach method. The Nature 2 thing is still equipped, should I remove it now that I'm going to the Dichlor/Bleach method? Will it be a problem or is it just mostly useless now. I never had any idea what the Nature 2 stick was for, she explained it was because the hot tub is old and the ozonator probably doesn't work anymore. It is a 2003 Tiger River Bengal. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegsOnEarth Posted September 4, 2012 Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 This answered some of my questions as well. I got a used hot tub and decontaminated using Nitro's method, but when I filled it the lady at the store told me to only shock with dichlor weekly and use primarily MPS. She didn't do a good job of explaining that the Nature 2 ionizer was the reason for this and I had a test kit that didn't check MPS. I was very converned by my chlorine levels and ended up draining tub and going to the Dichlor/Bleach method. The Nature 2 thing is still equipped, should I remove it now that I'm going to the Dichlor/Bleach method? Will it be a problem or is it just mostly useless now. I never had any idea what the Nature 2 stick was for, she explained it was because the hot tub is old and the ozonator probably doesn't work anymore. It is a 2003 Tiger River Bengal. Thanks If the N2 cartridge was installed in the previous water that you drained, then its worthless and can be discarded. You are better off using Dichlor/Bleach. The age of the tub and the condition of the ozonator do not matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PreservedSwine Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 1st thing to do is not use the spa until you have chemicals. Look for a local reputable co ( not the co you bought spa from as it appears they don't know what they're doing either). You can either go Chlorine or as most spa owners prefer Bromine - it's more stable in hot water and doesn't give off 'the swimming pool' smell when you open the cover. You should also purchase a proper test kit - not strips as these aren't overly accurate. There are several threads on setting up your spa depending on which method you choose. You have had a bad start but have found your way to this forum and most on here have nothing but excellent advice - being conscientious spa owners ourselves. I see so much bromine abuse, it would make your head explode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterbear Posted September 6, 2012 Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 I see so much bromine abuse, it would make your head explode. I concur! That's why I wrote the howto on bromine for beginners in the hot tub water chemistry section. Guess I might need to do a write up on how to properly use silver/MPS properly when I get some extra time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PreservedSwine Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 I see so much bromine abuse, it would make your head explode. I concur! That's why I wrote the howto on bromine for beginners in the hot tub water chemistry section. Guess I might need to do a write up on how to properly use silver/MPS properly when I get some extra time. It would be a big service. I'm glad to have learned as much as I have here- the more the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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