Deck Material For Spas - Real Wood Or Trex Type?

[Lips Malloy]

I know this is slightly off-topic, but I saw a thread about outdoor speakers, so I assume any spa-related posts apply.

I am in the process of planning a new deck to replace the small one I have, making it much bigger with room for a spa ( the Optima ). It is majorly elevated - say, 8-10 feet, and the hillside it will be built on will make it even taller on the downslope side. The house is in Mammoth Lakes, where the winters can see up to 50-65 feet of snow, sometimes 5-8 feet at a time. Some winters, like last, not so much snow. The weather here is highly unpredictable. My roofer just told me he had seen Trex decks turn to sawdust essentially, and collapse, up here. I was telling him my contractor wanted to use Trex, saying you don't see nails, no splinters, more amenable to curving decks, etc.

I prefer wood, honestly. I know, more maintenance, but I just like the real thing.

Does anyone here have experience with Trex, particularly in heavy snow conditions, and do you recommend/prefer it over wood? Keep in mind, this will be an elevated deck, not one of those ones that are right on the ground. It has to hold a huge snow load AND the spa. And, super high wind conditions. Last winter, they had two wind events of gale force, 130 mph or so, that leveled 10,000 trees.

And if you are a woody, what type of wood do you think is best to withstand the conditions?

[DustyBill54]

I know this is slightly off-topic, but I saw a thread about outdoor speakers, so I assume any spa-related posts apply.

I am in the process of planning a new deck to replace the small one I have, making it much bigger with room for a spa ( the Optima ). It is majorly elevated - say, 8-10 feet, and the hillside it will be built on will make it even taller on the downslope side. The house is in Mammoth Lakes, where the winters can see up to 50-65 feet of snow, sometimes 5-8 feet at a time. Some winters, like last, not so much snow. The weather here is highly unpredictable. My roofer just told me he had seen Trex decks turn to sawdust essentially, and collapse, up here. I was telling him my contractor wanted to use Trex, saying you don't see nails, no splinters, more amenable to curving decks, etc.

I prefer wood, honestly. I know, more maintenance, but I just like the real thing.

Does anyone here have experience with Trex, particularly in heavy snow conditions, and do you recommend/prefer it over wood? Keep in mind, this will be an elevated deck, not one of those ones that are right on the ground. It has to hold a huge snow load AND the spa. And, super high wind conditions. Last winter, they had two wind events of gale force, 130 mph or so, that leveled 10,000 trees.

And if you are a woody, what type of wood do you think is best to withstand the conditions?

I had never heard of TREX so I googled it and found plenty of reading material. The system is a light gauge galvanized metal framing system. Looks to be a very strong and durable system if assembled per mfg. recommendations. I never saw any reference to decking other than in one diagram, where it was referred to as a 1 x 6. I'm assuming the material for the deck boards wouldn't matter as long as the boards fit the components that hold it all together. Don't know what material works best in your climate but Cypress would be my choice here because it loves water. Whatever is native will probably be the easiest on your pocket book. If you have staff to do the maintenance to keep it coated, then use what you like. Tell your contractor to have four

2 x 2 deck samples built out of your favorite wood. Pic four colors of stain (make one clear or natural).

I read the warranty on the Trex system. On page 50 it states not to install within 3000 feet of salt water OR within the splash zone of any body of fresh water. Look under Other Water Applications. Voids the warranty of the structure.

http://s7d4.scene7.com/s7/brochure/flash_brochure.jsp?company=Trex&sku=trex_elevations_installation_guide_english&config=Trex/TrexBrandedViewer&locale=en

Only the surface of the structural members are galvanized. Once a cut is made or a hole is drilled, raw material is left exposed. Unless your installer takes the time to coat each one.

The flip side is with as much circulation as you will have around the structure, moisture should evaporate pretty fast. You could always take extra precautions in the splash zone.

Will the service tech need a ladder to access parts of the tub on the downhill side?

Good luck with whatever you decide.

[Lips Malloy]

Thanks, DustyBill. I didn't even realize Trex made a steel deck frame. I think using it would preclude recessing a spa, but the fire resistance is attractive. What I'm wondering about mainly is the fake wood decking material, how it looks, holds up, etc. Everyone keeps telling me how great it looks, like real wood, but when I look at it I see plastic with "simulated wood grain".

Thanks for that info though.

[spawn]

We all have a different sense of aesthetics. I am willing to believe that some people enjoy the appearance of Trex and other synthetic deck materials. Personally, I don’t like the look of the stuff the day that it is installed and I believe that the appearnce declines over time, especially as the little surface issues, fading, discoloration and staining occur. Nonetheless, I gave serious consideration to Trex, etc. thinking about the low maintenance and hidden fasters. But it is not really a maintenance free surface. In the end I went with a natural wood product, Ipe, which is a very dense hardwood, naturally resistant to rot , very strong, long lasting and attractive.

Part of my concern is that I was placing a round peg in a square hole – a round tub partially recessed into a rectangular deck. There were places along the edge of the tub where some deck board projected well beyond a supporting joist and did not land on another joist. Yes we were careful with the design of the structure but there will some instances where this was inevitable. The unsupported overhang was greater than any synthetic decking material allowed in their specs. The synthetic decking really is not very strong in tension and required closer spacing of the joists than most woods, for a given thickness. Anyway, with Ipe and its high strength, I could extend as far as I needed.

You can do hidden fasteners with a natural wood deck – and can do it with Ipe. However, as I learned more from those with the most experience with the material I decided not to go with hidden fasteners and instead chose stainless steel star drive screws for a more trouble free installation over the long term. Frankly I don’t even notice the screws now. .Some people recess the screws and put plugs in but again, those in the know say don’t bother, you’re more likely to have problems. The one concern that I had with Ipe was that some people reported having very fine splinters. This would have been enough for me to rule it out but I found out that the problem was caused by sealing the wood. Overtime, the sealer would start to pull and raise the tiny splinters. After researching this until I was confident I went ahead with the Ipe and did not seal the deck, just let it weather naturally. It is tempting to want to seal the deck because it is a beautiful reddish golden brown when first installed – almost like a nice dining table. My deck has faded to a very attractive natural grey. It blends in very nicely with the other materials in the vicinity and functions great. It isn’t cheap –about the same cost as Trex (I was looking at the thicker stuff used on docks because I wanted longer spans and overhangs). So far the Ipe has been NO –maintainer (well, I’ll occasionally sweep some leaves of, but I do nothing to the deck material itself) and I feel that I made the right choice.

I cannot say whether it would be right in the high country, but it has been a good choice for me in Seattle. You would use a different wood for the support structure – the Ipe is just for the decking. Ipe is difficult to work with as it is very strong - those who use it will want to have new sharp bits and blades, probably with a spare or two on hand depending on how much they are installing.

[Lips Malloy]

Wow, Spawn, that was SO helpful; great information, very thoughtful post. I was reading on the Trex site and there was a Q & A part and one question was:

Q: Why isn't Trex® structural?

A: Trex has made a market decision to offer a product that will provide the customer with a superior walking surface, guardrail system, fencing and trim.

Made my eyes bug out!!!

This deck is 10 plus feet off the ground, with a heavy spa to reside on or within, and they are worried about splinters?!

I am not going to be playing soccer on my deck. I just want it to hold people, a big BBQ, some chairs & tables, and a big spa. I DON'T want to be on the national news with the headline "deck collapses, killing 10 people."

I trust wood, especially in colder climes. I think plastic gets brittle in the cold. The weird thing is, when I've seen a cross section of Trex, it is hollow, and the walls do not appear substantial at all. If they are going to pretend to be wood, why aren't they solid?

I'm disappointed in my contractor, who has been great for the most part, but he is very "green", to the point of not being smart. Plastic comes from oil, which is a very finite resource we are currently killing millions of people for, whereas trees are a renewable resource as long as we take care of the planet. He's keen on the mercury-laden CFC lightbulbs too, even though they are far more toxic than either LEDs or regular lights. There is a great documentary about the history of lightbulbs. Did you know they used to make them so they lasted indefinitely? When they realized they'd never make a profit, they made them burn out after a certain number of hours.

[bajabill]

you dont use the trex or similar synthetic for the posts, beams, joists, etc. These are made from treated lumber, and can be encased with the same material used for your decking and railing. I just replaced my 2nd 20 year old deck and went with a decking product by evergrain. Swore I would never have a wood deck again. The one that was not off the ground too high was replaced with a paver patio a couple years ago. My taller deck has the hottub, and has closer spaced joists underneath the tub along with extra posts.

[Chas]

My taller deck has the hottub, and has closer spaced joists underneath the tub along with extra posts.

That's the key: you build for the material and it works fine. Put supports closer together, and it will be fine. The support is from the structure, not so much the decking surface.

[arches2]

My taller deck has the hottub, and has closer spaced joists underneath the tub along with extra posts.

That's the key: you build for the material and it works fine. Put supports closer together, and it will be fine. The support is from the structure, not so much the decking surface.

Exactly. the decking material has NO role in supporting your tub or any other part of the deck. You walk on it and look at it. That is all. I have PT pine (just the cheap stuff) on my deck. I hate it but my 600 sq ft deck was already too expensive so i cut where i could and that was the decking. If you can afford the trex (using trex as a generic term because i don't really like the trex brand stuff) then look at redwood or Ipe instead if you like wood. They are much more stable, esp. ipe and they look awsome. Don't be afraid of composite decking in your conditions, it will hold up just fine and you will get 20+ years out of it easily. Ipe will be longer but you do have to maintain it and it can be resurfaced.

Your bigger concern here is the framing of the deck. Make sure you build 2x12 construction with 12" on center and use a minimum of 8x8" poles (i'd go with telephone pole type pylons in your application driven a minimum of 6 ft deep if possible. Concrete footings would also work though. Make sure you have a profesional building engineer approve the structural design. If it is not designed well underneath you have an application that could end very badly.

IPE deck.

[JimKW]

I don't know the brand of composite decking that I used for the small deck I have leading down to my paver stone patio. But the stuff is solid not hollow core and it's stong for decking and pretty heavy. Everything you can't see is PT pine though. I bought he composite decking at Home Depot and I think it only comes in tan and light grey. I have the light grey.

[hjames710]

When Trex first came out, we were having our deck done on our old house in Ann Arbor, MI. At the time it was some ridiculous price, can't remember what, but I remember being shocked by the price. We ended up having a redwood deck put in. It was worth every penny, and that's part of the reason our house sold in two weeks.

[blindrid]

I currently have my tub on Trex. It's been there ten years and performs fine and would never do wood. I've also built decks with ChoiceDeck and TimberTech with no issues. Years back there was an issue with Trex in some climates but have seen no problems at all even with the "old" stuff.

As mentioned, the joists and posts give the support not the decking. I will never own another wood deck.

[Chas]

One of the issues Trex decking material had was that it had such an open texture that it was basically porous. So, in wet climates it would hold water - that did not degrade the material in any way, as it would do with wood, but it did allow mold and moss to grow, making the surface slick as ice.

This was especially true on the cost here, where we get moisture in the form of fog, or "Marine Layer" every night.

I don't think they make that type of material anymore, but I have plenty of customers who live in the dry inland valleys who have not had a lick of mold-related trouble with it. Having said that, see this link - the views expressed are not necessarily those of the staff or management of this forum...

http://www.gardenstructure.com/composite_decking

[jmgodfr]

Trex is fine when done correctly and no mold issues in dry climates. I'ts your joists and posts that need to be considered. I live at 4500 feet near Kirkwood - I don't get the snow like you do in Mammoth, but it will come 3 feet at a time, but I'm religious about cleaning it off - I've seen neighbors with other composite decks that have had issues with screws pulling etc from the thaw freeze cycle, but again - after the storm is over I blow it off. I installed 600 square feet of Trex back in 2006 have had no issues, we just added another 800 square feet this summer, the one thing is that the new material is about a 16th of an inch thinner then original (we are using Trex Accents which at the time was their premium version). The sub-structure is all Douglas Fir that was painted before install. My contractor had done another house back in 2006 that used Trex beams etc, there was a lot of problems with those rotting out etc, but the decking itself was fine. I've had no mold issues - but again I keep the snow off and we are in dry climate. Trex has numbers on pounds per square foot material decking is rated for based on joist span etc. If you are not a full timer at mammoth and the snow is going to sit - I'd maybe consider wood.

[jmgodfr]

Wow, Spawn, that was SO helpful; great information, very thoughtful post. I was reading on the Trex site and there was a Q & A part and one question was:

Q: Why isn't Trex® structural?

A: Trex has made a market decision to offer a product that will provide the customer with a superior walking surface, guardrail system, fencing and trim.

Made my eyes bug out!!!

This deck is 10 plus feet off the ground, with a heavy spa to reside on or within, and they are worried about splinters?!

I am not going to be playing soccer on my deck. I just want it to hold people, a big BBQ, some chairs & tables, and a big spa. I DON'T want to be on the national news with the headline "deck collapses, killing 10 people."

I trust wood, especially in colder climes. I think plastic gets brittle in the cold. The weird thing is, when I've seen a cross section of Trex, it is hollow, and the walls do not appear substantial at all. If they are going to pretend to be wood, why aren't they solid?

I'm disappointed in my contractor, who has been great for the most part, but he is very "green", to the point of not being smart. Plastic comes from oil, which is a very finite resource we are currently killing millions of people for, whereas trees are a renewable resource as long as we take care of the planet. He's keen on the mercury-laden CFC lightbulbs too, even though they are far more toxic than either LEDs or regular lights. There is a great documentary about the history of lightbulbs. Did you know they used to make them so they lasted indefinitely? When they realized they'd never make a profit, they made them burn out after a certain number of hours.

Trex is not 100% plastic and it is not hollow/honeycombed. It is solid boards made of a combination of scrap wood and recycled plastics, it cuts, routes, and can even be stained if you desire, it is not brittle in the freezing temps. It reaches maximum fade in about 16 weeks, I've had mine for 6 years, it faded in the first 4-6 months and hasn't faded beyond that - a good test of the maximum fade is to cut the end off a board, what you see is close to what the faded color will look like. I just added to my existing 6 year old deck and the ends of the new boards are the same color as the faded old boards, so I know eventually the top part of the addition will be close to matchine the original deck. There are other composit decks out there that are hollow and 100% recycled. Lots of horry storys about mold with Trex - but if you look at the source it is mostly from humid/coastal/moist climates, I live in dry area and have not had any issues.