Gouie Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 Well guys, I may have to throw in the towel. I've had a few issues with the hot tub over the last few months. I thought I was free and clear but I may have lost the battle. Came home tonight to an IC and HH error on the panel. I've seen the HH before, the water is not overheating, it's that the pumps aren't working and the temperature of the water at the sensor is above the threshold. I have a Balboa 500z series panel, readout in the centre with two pump buttons on the left and the temp and light buttons to the right. The light and temp buttons work fine but neither of the pump buttons work. I don't even hear them trying. I'm throwing this out there for any direction possible. We're expecting temperatures as low as -35 tonight. I could be burying my tub tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gouie Posted January 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 Well two hours in minus 30 and it's as I had expected. The fuse to the pumps had blown and I suspect as a result the water in the pumps is frozen preventing them from running. I think that the pump kicking in twice an hour to check the temp is simply not frequent enough. Thats a long time without circulation in temperatures that we see here. Even if that were enou to keep the main two speed pump thawed, the second pump only runs when the filtering cycle starts. I'm not sure how other units get around this, perhaps a small draw, constant circulation pump? Regardless I fear the tub is shot. I'm draining now in hopes for a miracle come spring and no damage to the pipes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandee1 Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 Sorry to hear about your troubles. That is a long time with no circulation/heat in those temps. IMO with extreme temps like your having a 24/7 circ pump tied to the heater is required. Good luck come spring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gouie Posted January 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 Yeah, not sure how I would adhoc a setup like that as it's not the way the tub was designed. What's troublesome is the second heater. Even if the primary pump drawing from the heater had no issue, the second pump rarely sees any flow at all. I'm not sure how a constant circulation would resolve that problem. After a lot of thought I believe what happened was the secondary pump, due to lack of activity and circulation of warm water froze enough that the propellor stopped turning. This was fine for a while as the primary is the only pump active for maintaining the temperature. The next fiter cycle kicked in which calls both pumps in order to assess proper flow/pressure. As the secondary pump wasn't spinning it drew enough current to blow the pump fuse which prevented the primary from running. The fuse issue was confirmed by replacing (as I thought that was the only problem I had) and blowing seconds after the pumps kicked in. Here's to hoping the hot tub Gods are with me come spring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 Yeah, not sure how I would adhoc a setup like that as it's not the way the tub was designed. What's troublesome is the second heater. Even if the primary pump drawing from the heater had no issue, the second pump rarely sees any flow at all. I'm not sure how a constant circulation would resolve that problem. After a lot of thought I believe what happened was the secondary pump, due to lack of activity and circulation of warm water froze enough that the propellor stopped turning. This was fine for a while as the primary is the only pump active for maintaining the temperature. The next fiter cycle kicked in which calls both pumps in order to assess proper flow/pressure. As the secondary pump wasn't spinning it drew enough current to blow the pump fuse which prevented the primary from running. The fuse issue was confirmed by replacing (as I thought that was the only problem I had) and blowing seconds after the pumps kicked in. Here's to hoping the hot tub Gods are with me come spring. Generally there's a small (3/4) line that ties into the filter pumps downstream flow and pushes circulation through the secondary pump to prevent this. Or I have seen the same 3/4 line upstream draw through the secondary pump warm water from the vessle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n1oty Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 Yeah, not sure how I would adhoc a setup like that as it's not the way the tub was designed. What's troublesome is the second heater. Even if the primary pump drawing from the heater had no issue, the second pump rarely sees any flow at all. I'm not sure how a constant circulation would resolve that problem. After a lot of thought I believe what happened was the secondary pump, due to lack of activity and circulation of warm water froze enough that the propellor stopped turning. This was fine for a while as the primary is the only pump active for maintaining the temperature. The next fiter cycle kicked in which calls both pumps in order to assess proper flow/pressure. As the secondary pump wasn't spinning it drew enough current to blow the pump fuse which prevented the primary from running. The fuse issue was confirmed by replacing (as I thought that was the only problem I had) and blowing seconds after the pumps kicked in. Here's to hoping the hot tub Gods are with me come spring. Generally there's a small (3/4) line that ties into the filter pumps downstream flow and pushes circulation through the secondary pump to prevent this. Or I have seen the same 3/4 line upstream draw through the secondary pump warm water from the vessle. This. Or as Sundance and some others do, they will have an even smaller vinyl hose (3/8 inch) circulating heated tub water through the jet pump or pumps. It doesn't take much heated water to keep the ice at bay in harsh climates, but a lot of the junkier tubs do not even implement this kind of protection. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 Yeah, not sure how I would adhoc a setup like that as it's not the way the tub was designed. What's troublesome is the second heater. Even if the primary pump drawing from the heater had no issue, the second pump rarely sees any flow at all. I'm not sure how a constant circulation would resolve that problem. After a lot of thought I believe what happened was the secondary pump, due to lack of activity and circulation of warm water froze enough that the propellor stopped turning. This was fine for a while as the primary is the only pump active for maintaining the temperature. The next fiter cycle kicked in which calls both pumps in order to assess proper flow/pressure. As the secondary pump wasn't spinning it drew enough current to blow the pump fuse which prevented the primary from running. The fuse issue was confirmed by replacing (as I thought that was the only problem I had) and blowing seconds after the pumps kicked in. Here's to hoping the hot tub Gods are with me come spring. Generally there's a small (3/4) line that ties into the filter pumps downstream flow and pushes circulation through the secondary pump to prevent this. Or I have seen the same 3/4 line upstream draw through the secondary pump warm water from the vessle. This. Or as Sundance and some others do, they will have an even smaller vinyl hose (3/8 inch) circulating heated tub water through the jet pump or pumps. It doesn't take much heated water to keep the ice at bay in harsh climates, but a lot of the junkier tubs do not even implement this kind of protection. John Most also incorperate a freeze protection sensor that kicks on the filter pump if the water temp in the lines downstream of the pump gets below 40. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abovetheresthottubandpool Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 This is not making a lot of sense, since VS series spa packs all have freeze protection. Sounds like your board has an issue since I doubt both temp sensors are bad. Make sure the freeze protection dip switch is in the correct position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gouie Posted January 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 I'll be sure to check things out in detail when the temperature increases to the point where my eyeballs aren't freezing. What I can't piece together is how the heater/pump on one side of the tub can prevent the secondary pump from freezing. I understand what n1oty is saying and will look at it closer but I do not believe that is how mine is setup. The control panel was reading IC indicating a freeze condition which should have initiated the pumps. Whether it was the pumps freezing that caused the fuse to blow or the blown fuse that resulted in the frozen pumps i do not know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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