Help With New Hot Tub Decision

[SpaNewcomer]

I just made another post regarding a J470 floor model. I wanted to keep this a separate topic, so if I decide against the floor model then I have three other hot tubs to choose between. All of the following I have wet tested and I am providing my feelings on each. I’d appreciate feedback regarding these particular models and in particular if you can offer some comments regarding my feedback. Perhaps I’m missing something or don’t understand something fully. I want a tub for comfort and therapy, this is not a party tub.

Arctic Summit

Felt like it had a lot of power and a good number of jets. I’m a tall guy and the seating fit me well. My wife, who did not wet test, is a fair bit shorter and likes to sit upright. I worry that the deeper more reclined seats would not fit her well. I worry about the quality, hear a lot about the Chinese jets. The Arctic guy told me that the new jets are much better, they screw in, opposed to the older jets that used to pop out.

The big downside is the control. One control for the master seat and then one control for the other three seats. The air control for the three seats is one control, so it is either on or off for all three seats. This is even for the Epic series, where every seat has its own pump. I like the J470 much better in this regard, two diverters that each control two seats and each seat has its own air control.

Artesian Piper Glen

This tub is a beast. Lots of power, and I found it very quiet. I really like the control at each seat, especially being able to turn the jet on or off at the seat. They had jets to hit pretty much every part of your body. I do like the leg jets, something the J470 doesn’t do well. The air is either on or off, but you do have pump control.

My main issue is that both times I wet tested, yes I wet tested this one twice, I felt a little itchy. More so the first time, but I had the same sensation the second time. The deal, who is very nice, told me that it is likely because I just jumped in and started blasting the jets. A different dealer told me that it is often the difference between high volume and high pressure. Artesian apparently does high pressure, which isn’t good for hydrotherapy and can make you itchy. Whereas high volume doesn’t make you itchy and gives much better hydrotherapy.

I did find the Piper Glen almost hurt if turned up on high with air. Another downside is that if some of the jets are closed you lose the ability to turn it down. Basically when you turn it down it cuts the flow to half. If all jets are open then you get half the flow. If half the jets are closed than the remaining open jets still get full flow even when turned to the lowest setting.

I have concerns over the number of pumps and limiting a pump, restricting its flow, since pumps don’t typically like that. The Artesian guy says that the pumps introduce air to alleviate the pressure build up when the pump output is being restricted. Sounds a little fishy to me.

Sundance Optima

I do like the foot jets, one per foot is a nice touch. The air bubblers do nothing for me. This is a comfortable hot tub but I wish the head pillows raised like the J470. I find I have to slouch if I want my head to rest against a pillow.

My biggest issue with the Optima is the control. One diverter for three seats. I didn’t know this when I wet tested, and we had a horrible time, I went with my wife and two kids, so four of us in it. It was a fight over who got power and we could never figure out how the diverters work. I assumed it was like the J470, each one does two chairs. Had we known at the time that one does three chairs we may have been able to give it a better wet test. It does concern me that one pump has to handle three seats. With the diverter I guess you have to either give any one of the seats full power or distribute it evenly across the three.

This was our first wet test, so we had no idea what we were doing. I do feel that the jets are more pin point high pressure.

That about sums it all up.

[Spa_Guru]

The Jacuzzi and Sundance are made in the same factory, and both are a far better choice than Arctic or a tub that makes you itch.

Arctic's issues go far beyond their still-Chinese jets, (it isn't just the jets BTW, it is the majority of the components on the spa) and Arctic should be selling for the price of a Costco spa, they are, in my opinion, one of the highest priced for the lowest value.

As a seasoned repairman and person who uses a tub for hydrotherapy I can tell you that itching jets are those who do use high pressure vs hi volume/lower pressure.

Itching comes from micro-tears in your skin that get hammered full of spa water.

IMHO the best theraputic proceedure is to soak and relax for 10 minutes, then hit the jets, because then your muscles have had a chance to relax and soften. None of that has anything to do with skin.

[SpaNewcomer]

Thank you for the insight Spa_Guru.

Is it true that almost all hot tub manufacturers have gone to Chinese parts, like pretty much everything else we buy these days? I know that Jacuzzi is one of the few companies that actually make some of their own parts, rather than just buying parts from generic companies. Does Sundance fall into this same category of using their own parts?

Are you familiar with the Optima? If so do you have any comments on the diverter system, one diverter controling three seats?

[Water Boy]

Thank you for the insight Spa_Guru.

Is it true that almost all hot tub manufacturers have gone to Chinese parts, like pretty much everything else we buy these days? I know that Jacuzzi is one of the few companies that actually make some of their own parts, rather than just buying parts from generic companies. Does Sundance fall into this same category of using their own parts?

Are you familiar with the Optima? If so do you have any comments on the diverter system, one diverter controling three seats?

Lots of companies use Rising Dragon parts in their spas. Arctic may use more than some, but many spa manufactures now use the RD jets, lights, suction fittings, etc. The Rising Dragon Jets are very good jets. They don't pop out, and feel quite nice when soaking compared to the straight shooting directional jets. Just my .02 cents.

[HotSpringGuy]

Thank you for the insight Spa_Guru.

Is it true that almost all hot tub manufacturers have gone to Chinese parts, like pretty much everything else we buy these days? I know that Jacuzzi is one of the few companies that actually make some of their own parts, rather than just buying parts from generic companies. Does Sundance fall into this same category of using their own parts?

Are you familiar with the Optima? If so do you have any comments on the diverter system, one diverter controling three seats?

I understand the 1 diverter controls 3 seats, but is there any type of individual seat adjustment either via a smaller diverter or the ability to adjust the jets themselves? (some jets have a rotating collar that can adjust pressure as well)

[SpaNewcomer]

Okay, so I have ruled out the Arctic and the Artesian. This leaves me between an Optima and the J470.

Anyone experience with the newer model Optima hot tubs. What are your feelings on the hydrotherapy? Sundance gives you a 5 year warranty on the jets whereas Jacuzzi only gives a 2 year warranty. Not sure if this is a big deal or not.

As for the divertor system it appears that it diverts between two seats on one side and a different seat. In the middle all seats get some. One extreme sends it equally to two seats the other extreme send it all to a different seat. Each seat has individual controls for air and many of the individual jets can be turned off.

Anyone have opinions on the Fluidix Intelli-jet? I didn't wet test again, just hand tested. I didn't know when I wet tested that you could turn these to change the action. On my hand it feels great when these are turned for an oscillating massage, how does it feel when you are in there?

[Spa_Guru]

Thank you for the insight Spa_Guru.

Is it true that almost all hot tub manufacturers have gone to Chinese parts, like pretty much everything else we buy these days? I know that Jacuzzi is one of the few companies that actually make some of their own parts, rather than just buying parts from generic companies. Does Sundance fall into this same category of using their own parts?

Are you familiar with the Optima? If so do you have any comments on the diverter system, one diverter controling three seats?

Lots of companies use Rising Dragon parts in their spas. Arctic may use more than some, but many spa manufactures now use the RD jets, lights, suction fittings, etc. The Rising Dragon Jets are very good jets. They don't pop out, and feel quite nice when soaking compared to the straight shooting directional jets. Just my .02 cents.

Just because more manufacturers (Watkins) are putting low quality Chinese cr@p in their spas does not make it a good idea, the thread in jets you refer to are required because when you cannot or will not produce a consistent grade of plastic you just can't build snap in jets.

Anyone who thinks the Chinese should be responsible for parts in something you use with 240 volts and water you are going to sit in hasn't bothered to read the news about their inability to make infant formula without killing children.

[Spa_Guru]

Okay, so I have ruled out the Arctic and the Artesian. This leaves me between an Optima and the J470.

Anyone experience with the newer model Optima hot tubs. What are your feelings on the hydrotherapy? Sundance gives you a 5 year warranty on the jets whereas Jacuzzi only gives a 2 year warranty. Not sure if this is a big deal or not.

As for the divertor system it appears that it diverts between two seats on one side and a different seat. In the middle all seats get some. One extreme sends it equally to two seats the other extreme send it all to a different seat. Each seat has individual controls for air and many of the individual jets can be turned off.

Anyone have opinions on the Fluidix Intelli-jet? I didn't wet test again, just hand tested. I didn't know when I wet tested that you could turn these to change the action. On my hand it feels great when these are turned for an oscillating massage, how does it feel when you are in there?

Run it against the BACK of your hand for three minutes minimum, that will tell you everything you need to know.

[gman]

<br />Okay, so I have ruled out the Arctic and the Artesian. This leaves me between an Optima and the J470.<br /><br />Anyone experience with the newer model Optima hot tubs. What are your feelings on the hydrotherapy? Sundance gives you a 5 year warranty on the jets whereas Jacuzzi only gives a 2 year warranty. Not sure if this is a big deal or not.<br /><br />As for the divertor system it appears that it diverts between two seats on one side and a different seat. In the middle all seats get some. One extreme sends it equally to two seats the other extreme send it all to a different seat. Each seat has individual controls for air and many of the individual jets can be turned off.<br /><br />Anyone have opinions on the Fluidix Intelli-jet? I didn't wet test again, just hand tested. I didn't know when I wet tested that you could turn these to change the action. On my hand it feels great when these are turned for an oscillating massage, how does it feel when you are in there?<br />

<br /><br /><br />

SpaNewcomer,

I have a 2009 Sundance Optima. I am not familiar the 2011 Optima, but I don't believe there has been any significant changes to the design or components since 2009. One of the reasons I chose the Optima over about the many other brands of similar sized/featured tubs is the hydrotherapy. For the price, I think the Optima is one of the better tubs on the market for hydrotherapy. But that's just MHO.

You've already been told to wet test. I believe wet-testing to be the most important 'research' activity you can do when purchasing a hot tub. I always recommend people take plenty of time with the wet test, so as to become fairly well acquainted with the kind and type of jets and the range of massage possibilities (and limitations) that the tub provides.

I, too, was a little concerned that all the corner seats and foot jets were controlled by just two diverters. As you know, one diverter controls the 'captains' chair, the 'waterfall' seat jet and foot jets. The other diverter controls the 3 corner seats. (The other middle seat position is always on when pump #2 is running.)

Even though three corner seats were controlled by just one diverter, I found that the design and flexibility of the jets, the water pressure, and the general quality and range of hydrotherapy in the Optima was still superior to other tubs. Even with a fully occupied tub, and all the jets fully open, the water pressure has always been good.

Most of the larger and mid-sized jets on the Optima have an outer ring which allows you to control the volume of water the jet disperses (from maximum (fully 'open') to none ('closed'). By closing unoccupied jets, you can add water pressure to the remaining 'open' jets. This is useful in the event you may demand more power than you get when all jets are wide open. I do not find the water pressure lacking with all jets wide open, but everyone is different and you have to make that call for yourself.

Many of the jets can also be changed to a 'wobble' effect by simply turning the inner ring/spigot. The four corner seats also have air controllers, which allow you to introduce air into the jet stream. This also varies the 'feel' of the hydrotherapy by softening and 'broadening' the impact zone.

The jet configuration in each seat is different, so different body parts are massaged in each seat. The foot jets in the Optima are pretty unique. Many tubs do not have foot jets and those that do often have only four large jets set in a 'dome', which I found difficult to step over and/or around (and lacking jets (four more needed)).

If you want to see if the Optima is a viable option for you, then I recommend you take the time (with any tub, for that matter) to acquaint yourself with the tub's hydrotherapy possibilities. Don't be afraid to spend a good half hour or more in the tub playing with the diverters, air controls, and jet streams. Spend at least several minutes, if not longer, in each seat position to see how the jets hit your body. I recommend every member of your family do the same, if possible. You'll soon learn whether this is the right tub for you (or not).

For purposes of full disclosure, I am not connected with the spa industry nor any hot tub manufacturer. I am simply a consumer. I am very pleased with the Sundance Optima...but to each his own.

Good luck in your search.

gman