Dream Maker Vs. Other Rotomolded Brands?

[MaRiSpaTech]

Does anyone have information or opinions on Dream Maker spas? What is up with the so called heat stick technology heater (no heating element)? How do you think they compare to other makes like Freefolw spas?

[Alisonsvilla]

Does anyone have information or opinions on Dream Maker spas? What is up with the so called heat stick technology heater (no heating element)? How do you think they compare to other makes like Freefolw spas?

just bought the dream maker eclipse yesterday-waiting for it to be delivered.

apparently the power used to drive the motor converts to heat for tub-or so i think.

think it works on same principle as my pool heat-though with tub having less water it will heat ater when temps fall below 50 degrees-unlike pool.

[Chas]

Softub uses a heat exchanger - it is a simple tube which wraps around the motor and carries the heat into the tub.

They don't give you a number on the brochure, but it has been my experience that they put out about as much heat as a 750 watt heater. Which is to say, it takes it a long time to get a larger model up to temp, and it may not have the umph to keep it at temp in cold weather. The heat stick has similar performace, I think.

I like a regular heater like the big boys use. I am not afraid of something new or better, but I have sold Softub and Freeflow tubs. I liked the heating system in the Freeflow much better and so did my customers. You can also convert FreeFlow to 220 if you need or want.

The heat stick is simply not going to put out as much heat, and to be effective the pump has to run on high speed.

Also - look at the warranties. I don't know what FreeFlow is offereing right now, but Dream Maker is only offering to cover labor for 90 days, parts for a year. They do NOT cover the pump shaft seal at all, nor the jet internals.

BTW, I am not currently selling any of these tubs.

[Jim_The_Jim]

Does anyone have information or opinions on Dream Maker spas? What is up with the so called heat stick technology heater (no heating element)? How do you think they compare to other makes like Freefolw spas?

Any spa that does not have a heater and only heats from the water jacket around the pump, cannot filter much in summer and they take "forever" to heat up in winter. Running the pump on high speed all the time they are heating up. Customers have to take the cover off and let heat out to get the pump to run and filter the water. It take one turnover minimum to get the minimum filtering required by the ANSI safety standards, so they don't follow the standards.

FreeFlow is a much better choice. Freeflow is a roto molding company and the spas are a supplimentary income for them. Their equipment is paid for and the molding is far superior to any of the roto molded spas I have seen. Much more expert at roto molding. With other spa companies who have done this they make them as cheap as possible, no heater, single speed cheap pumps. Freeflow also has dual suctions and is UL 1563 conforming, unlike the other spas with a single hole and a filter. The other good thing is the Freeflo pack is convertible from 1000 watts to 4000 watts if you have an electrician convert it.

FreeFlow uses balboa, and Aquaflo XP pumps with 48 frame AO smith motors, both are mainstream and decent quality. We have sold several of them over the past 5 to 6 years ( I lost track) and we have yet to do a warranty on one. Now, watch. Tomorrow we will get a call, just because I said that.

They are full foam, but very easy to fix. Even I, and old f#rt, can turn one on its side and get to the jets easily (Soft foam, and access holes on the bottom). It is the only low priced, beginner, spa worth buying, in my opinion. We have sold some to two ex Hot Spring owners who were angry with the costs to fix their old Hot Spring one with a cracked out shell, and one with a bad control box, really! Both customers tell me the Freeflow is better than their old Hot Spring.

[MaRiSpaTech]

I’m no physics expert, but the way that I see friction heat technology is this. In a heating element, all of the energy consumed is converted directly into heat. With friction heating, much of the energy consumed is used to move the water around and not all of it is converted to heat. Now, the conservation of energy law (?) states that energy is never lost, only converted to other forms. So is the mechanical energy used to move the water also converted to heat through friction? I wonder.

[Brulan1]

I’m no physics expert, but the way that I see friction heat technology is this. In a heating element, all of the energy consumed is converted directly into heat. With friction heating, much of the energy consumed is used to move the water around and not all of it is converted to heat. Now, the conservation of energy law (?) states that energy is never lost, only converted to other forms. So is the mechanical energy used to move the water also converted to heat through friction? I wonder.

Yes the Water is propelled through a pump that has moving parts with friction. Energy is gained and heat is produced by the pump and in some cases recycled back into the water to make the tub more efficient.

[Chas]

Any spa that does not have a heater and only heats from the water jacket around the pump, cannot filter much in summer and they take "forever" to heat up in winter. Running the pump on high speed all the time they are heating up. Customers have to take the cover off and let heat out to get the pump to run and filter the water.

Good point Jim. I had forgotten about that.

[Jim_The_Jim]

I’m no physics expert, but the way that I see friction heat technology is this. In a heating element, all of the energy consumed is converted directly into heat. With friction heating, much of the energy consumed is used to move the water around and not all of it is converted to heat. Now, the conservation of energy law (?) states that energy is never lost, only converted to other forms. So is the mechanical energy used to move the water also converted to heat through friction? I wonder.

Here is something you missed. All energy is eventually converted to heat. It just has to be captured.

In the Soft Tub they do a good job of it with a styrofoam box that has no air entering at all and the only cooling is the spa water. And the interesting thing is that the motors do last a lot longer than I thought they would. It is basically water cooled.

The water moving in the pipes does have friction, but it creates very little heat.

In a thermally closed design we take all the heat from the pumps and use it completely and use it to create a "tropical room" inside the cabinet the causes extreme energy efficiency, better than any other method.

[Chas]

In a thermally closed design we take all the heat from the pumps and use it completely and use it to create a "tropical room" inside the cabinet the causes extreme energy efficiency, better than any other method.

That's an interesting opinion. Glad to hear that you think the tubs you sell are the 'best,' but of course, it is an opinion.

[archangel]

I’m no physics expert, but the way that I see friction heat technology is this. In a heating element, all of the energy consumed is converted directly into heat. With friction heating, much of the energy consumed is used to move the water around and not all of it is converted to heat. Now, the conservation of energy law (?) states that energy is never lost, only converted to other forms. So is the mechanical energy used to move the water also converted to heat through friction? I wonder.

Yes - you are NOT a physics expert.

No where near "all" of the energy is converted to heat in a standard heating element - far from it. Electric heating is basically a form of friction heating - the element heats due to the energy pushing through the resistive matrix. And the energy conversion efficiency is comparatively low - most of the energy is lost in "pushing" the electricity (which becomes progressively more resistive as it heats).

[Trigger]

Yes - you are NOT a physics expert.

No where near "all" of the energy is converted to heat in a standard heating element - far from it. Electric heating is basically a form of friction heating - the element heats due to the energy pushing through the resistive matrix. And the energy conversion efficiency is comparatively low - most of the energy is lost in "pushing" the electricity (which becomes progressively more resistive as it heats).

Comparitivley low? Compared to what?

[MaRiSpaTech]

Yes - you are NOT a physics expert.

No where near "all" of the energy is converted to heat in a standard heating element - far from it. Electric heating is basically a form of friction heating - the element heats due to the energy pushing through the resistive matrix. And the energy conversion efficiency is comparatively low - most of the energy is lost in "pushing" the electricity (which becomes progressively more resistive as it heats).

Thanks for the laugh, but you have no idea what you are talking about. Not to sound like someone else on this forum, but I actually have a degree in electronic engineering. I also design electronic safety devices on a daily basis. Try to follow along. As a LAW of electricity, power=watts and watts=voltage x current (W=VxI), further watts=current squared x resistance (W=RxIxI). Nowhere in this formula is there a value to represent any loss for “pushing electricity” ROFLMAO. Watts is the value that represents heat dissipated from a resistive element (power consumed). All of this heat (watts) is transferred to the water, otherwise the resistive element would continuously get hotter until it burned like the sun scorching everyone on earth.

Another way to look at it is this. It is a fact that power consumed can only be converted to heat or work. Work is defined as force over distance. The heater is not applying any force over any distance, so the only way that it can dissipate power (watts) is through heat.

[soakerman]

Thanks for the laugh, but you have no idea what you are talking about. Not to sound like someone else on this forum, but I actually have a degree in electronic engineering. I also design electronic safety devices on a daily basis. Try to follow along. As a LAW of electricity, power=watts and watts=voltage x current (W=VxI), further watts=current squared x resistance (W=RxIxI). Nowhere in this formula is there a value to represent any loss for “pushing electricity” ROFLMAO. Watts is the value that represents heat dissipated from a resistive element (power consumed). All of this heat (watts) is transferred to the water, otherwise the resistive element would continuously get hotter until it burned like the sun scorching everyone on earth.

Another way to look at it is this. It is a fact that power consumed can only be converted to heat or work. Work is defined as force over distance. The heater is not applying any force over any distance, so the only way that it can dissipate power (watts) is through heat.

wait a second, what is a heater other then a resisitor that resist the flow of electricity through the element? Therfore the "work" is being done by the electricity being pushed through a resistor which can't get continually hot as a sun because the watter that circulates around the element dissipates the heat much as a radiator. and is coupled to a on off temp contoll or" spa pac". these are nowhere near 100% efficient so that energy or watts is going somewhere.

[MaRiSpaTech]

Hello Soakerman, You are right, the heater is simple a resistor. I know that the element will not actually continually get hot as the sun because the power into it is equal to the power out of it and into the water as heat. I was trying to make a point that all of the energy that goes into the element is released as heat. Otherwise the heater would continually get hotter. I’m not talking about anything other than the heater, as all spas have controls. My original reason for posting was to show that other spa heating technology (friction heating) is not more efficient as some people claim. It is hard to explain why or how all of the electrical energy is converted into heat in a resistor. Basically whenever you have any kind of loss in a electrical system, that loss will be in the form of heat.

If you truly want to understand what I’m trying to explain, go to Wikipedia and search for “electric power”, “watts”, “electric heat”.