Off Of Enzymes And Onto Bleach For Now

[my12by60]

I started a thread here a while back on the Clear Choice enzyme system which we started using in March 2010. Things worked great for March through July. We left for a 3-month RV trip during August-October and came home to clear water with nothing having been done to the water for three months. But after resuming daily spa use after getting home, I started to notice some white floaties. I did a water change in March, but the floaties did not disappear. Even after the water change, I was needing to clean the filters every 3 or 4 days instead of once a week. I read some here and see that this was likely white water mold. I put in a bunch of chlorine (dichlor granules) and the water is now crystal clear again. I have now started to use bleach on a daily basis and the water continues to look good with no sign of any floaties. I also replaced the filters as the old ones were quite old.

I use the spa in the am for 15 to 20 minutes and in the pm for 15 to 20 minutes. I have been adding about 3oz of bleach after each soak based on my reading here. Does that sound about right for this bather load in a 500 gallon tub?

We have a nice Taylor test kit and I have been showing chlorine in the 2-4ppm range, ph at about 7.2 and TA at about 100.

We are going on another 3-month RV trip during August-October and I am thinking about using the enzymes again while we are gone? Any thoughts or comments on that idea? Or should I consider just draining the spa for that period? I thought I had read not to do that here in the hot climate of Phoenix. Any comments appreciated.

[waterbear]

I started a thread here a while back on the Clear Choice enzyme system which we started using in March 2010. Things worked great for March through July. We left for a 3-month RV trip during August-October and came home to clear water with nothing having been done to the water for three months. But after resuming daily spa use after getting home, I started to notice some white floaties. I did a water change in March, but the floaties did not disappear. Even after the water change, I was needing to clean the filters every 3 or 4 days instead of once a week. I read some here and see that this was likely white water mold. I put in a bunch of chlorine (dichlor granules) and the water is now crystal clear again. I have now started to use bleach on a daily basis and the water continues to look good with no sign of any floaties. I also replaced the filters as the old ones were quite old.

I use the spa in the am for 15 to 20 minutes and in the pm for 15 to 20 minutes. I have been adding about 3oz of bleach after each soak based on my reading here. Does that sound about right for this bather load in a 500 gallon tub?

We have a nice Taylor test kit and I have been showing chlorine in the 2-4ppm range, ph at about 7.2 and TA at about 100.

We are going on another 3-month RV trip during August-October and I am thinking about using the enzymes again while we are gone? Any thoughts or comments on that idea? Or should I consider just draining the spa for that period? I thought I had read not to do that here in the hot climate of Phoenix. Any comments appreciated.

IF you will be gone for 3 months then nothing is going to keep the water clean. Period. (well, perhaps a SWCG or SWBG will but without maintenance you will have problems with pH too high and other water balance issues in that time.)

My suggestion would be to not worry about it before you leave. Drain, decontaminate, and refill and balance when you return and take it from there. You are going to have to do that no matter what!

BTW, do you still have the same opinion of your enzyme system or are you now willing to listen to the (more experienced) voices that tried to tell you in the other thread (which I ended up locking because it was starting to go in a less than nice direction) that it really was not keeping your water sanitized?

White water mold does not grow in sanitized water! It is a bacterial biofilm!

Clear water does NOT equal sanitized water. However, greenish water from an algae bloom CAN be safe since it takes higher sanitizer levels to kill algae (and if we are talking about biguanide based systems like SoftSoak or BaquaSpa these sanitizers do not kill algae and an additional algaecide is needed with them!)

I repeat, clear water does NOT equal sanitized water!

IF you want a system that does not require daily maintenance look into 3 step bromine but even that is not going to last more than maybe two weeks without some maintenance. There is NO 'magic in a bottle" that will do that!

[chem geek]

I use the spa in the am for 15 to 20 minutes and in the pm for 15 to 20 minutes. I have been adding about 3oz of bleach after each soak based on my reading here. Does that sound about right for this bather load in a 500 gallon tub?

Assuming you are soaking in a hot (104ºF) tub, then you have a bather load that is 30-40 minutes per day. One person-hour requires 5 fluid ounces of 6% bleach so your 3 ounces would handle roughly 35 minutes of soak time which is about what you are doing. However, these are just rules of thumb and the real way to know if it's enough is to test the Free Chlorine (FC) level just before your soak. If it's 1-2 ppm, then you're good. If it's < 1 ppm, then you aren't using enough bleach. If it's > 4 ppm, then you're using too much (or > 2 ppm might be too much if you don't want to soak with that much chlorine in the water).

By the way, did you initially start off using Dichlor to get the Cyanuric Acid (CYA) level up to around 30 ppm or so? If not, then your active chlorine level will be way too high so in that case use some Dichlor to build up the CYA before switching back to bleach.

[my12by60]

<<BTW, do you still have the same opinion of your enzyme system or are you now willing to listen to the (more experienced) voices that tried to tell you in the other thread (which I ended up locking because it was starting to go in a less than nice direction) that it really was not keeping your water sanitized?>>

I am always willing to listen, especially in areas (like water chemistry) where I know so little. I also see a benefit in first hand experience. So I do not regret that I dabbled with the enzyme system. I am not totally ready to label the enzyme product a failure because I believe I subjected it to conditions above and beyond the call of duty. I should have decontaminated and drained right after we got back from our RV trip. The water looked good so I did not, which was my mistake. Maybe the mold formed while the tub was sitting unattended for 3 months? I still have plenty of enzyme product left and am now trying to figure out how to derive some constructive use from it, perhaps in conjunction with some other sanitation products. My original thread and comments on the enzyme product were entirely honest and non-promotional. The proof of that is that I am now back reporting that the mold grew.

<<My suggestion would be to not worry about it before you leave. Drain, decontaminate, and refill and balance when you return and take it from there.>>

So I don't have to worry about what the water might be doing while sitting in the tub unattended for 3 months since I will decontaminate and refill upon return?

<<By the way, did you initially start off using Dichlor to get the Cyanuric Acid (CYA) level up to around 30 ppm or so?>>

Yes, I used a heavy dose of Dichlor granules to kill off the white water mold.

Thanks for the feedback.

[waterbear]

So I don't have to worry about what the water might be doing while sitting in the tub unattended for 3 months since I will decontaminate and refill upon return?

Basically yes.

The tub can turn into a green swamp complete with tadpoles and mosquito larva and you can bring it back to pristine condition fairly easily!

Yes, I used a heavy dose of Dichlor granules to kill off the white water mold.

This worries me. How heavy a dose? Did you calculate how high this brought your CYA or did you test CYA? Did you do the decontamination procedure that I linked to in my previous post above or just shock the spa with dichlor? Did you drain and refill after the heavy dichlor dose? Too much CYA is actually worse than none at all in a hot tub in terms of water sanitation.

[my12by60]

<<This worries me. How heavy a dose? Did you calculate how high this brought your CYA or did you test CYA? Did you do the decontamination procedure that I linked to in my previous post above or just shock the spa with dichlor? Did you drain and refill after the heavy dichlor dose? Too much CYA is actually worse than none at all in a hot tub in terms of water sanitation.>>

I added about 10 teaspoons of Dichlor at first and that did not clear the floaties. I tested the chlorine level two days later and it was about 2-4ppm. So I added another 15 teaspoons. That cleared the floaties in a few days. I tested the chlorine again and it was again back to 2-4ppm. The water had a strong chlorine odor, so I threw in some non-chlorine shock (based on what I read here) and let the spa run open in the sun for an hour or two. That got rid of the odor. I then started in with about 3 oz of bleach after each 15-20 minute soak. I have not tested the CYA. I looked at the Taylor site and I thought the CYA test called for the use of some powder which I did not see in our test kit. So I am not sure we have what we need to test the CYA. When I used to use Dichlor for sanitation I would add a heaping teaspoon of granules per day. The 25 teaspoons that I added did not seem excessive since the advice I read here called for Dichlor for a week or two before bleach. I am going a bit by the seat of my pants here as I read and learn.

[chem geek]

I am not totally ready to label the enzyme product a failure because I believe I subjected it to conditions above and beyond the call of duty.

Enzymes alone will not sanitize so will not prevent bacterial growth, algae growth, nor white water mold. Enzymes can accelerate the oxidation of suntan and skin oils and other organics that chlorine has a more difficult time of handling, but they will generally not kill pathogens. As waterbear has written many times, clear water is not sanitized water.

Remember that as described in this page on Clear Choice, it PROMOTES bacterial growth for what they call "healthy bacteria" but though they claim they "will not feed any type of infectious bacteria", that's just a bunch of bunk. They note that "The Clear Choice Spa Treatment System can not claim that it kills unwanted bacteria as toxic sanitizers and pesticides do." Damn right they can't. The EPA won't allow it since...well...it isn't true if they make that claim. I wrote about this in more detail in this post when you first talked about using this system.

Quite frankly, what their system does is with surfactants and enzymes they break down bather waste (mostly urea and ammonia from sweat and urine) as well as body oils so the water does tend to stay clear by not filling up with unoxidized chemicals, but you are shedding millions of fecal bacteria when in the spa which are not getting killed. I would not be at all surprised if there was a lot of growth of Pseudomonas aeruginosa from your skin that is the bacteria that causes hot tub itch. However, unless you have a break or irritated area in the skin, you may not get hot tub itch itself. Just be thankful that all that happened was that you got white water mold when the tub ws not in use.

[waterbear]

The Taylor CYA test uses a liquid reagent, R-0013, and a view tube with a black dot at the bottom. Which Taylor kit do you have?

[my12by60]

We have the K-2005. I now see right on the front label that CYA testing is done by this kit. We have the R0013 and the tube set with the black dot at the bottom. My wife has been managing our pool and spa chemicals which is why I am so ignorant. I am now taking over the spa maintenance since I am the only one that uses it 99% of the time. We bought one of those far-infrared saunas a couple of years ago and she prefers that to the spa. My wife will likely recall how to conduct the CYA test.

[waterbear]

the instructions for all the tests are on the inside of the lid.