Jacuzzi Heater Issues? What's Normal?

[coursonb]

I've had a Jacuzzi J470 up and running for a couple weeks now and seem to be having some issues. The first one is with heat. While the spa is on, and both jets are on, it doesn't heat. From reading the book, this is normal if it is set up to run with 50 amps (factory default). The temperature drops from about 104 to 99 in about 30 minutes of using the tub with both jets on. Today, I turned off one jet when it reached 101. 15 minutes later, it was at 99. The other day, I only used one jet. It went from 104 to 101 with 30 minutes of use and pretty much stayed there. Is this normal?

I also don't know how to see if it was hooked up with 50 amps or 60 amps (allowing heater to work with both jets on). There are two boxes for the hot tub. The one breaker box inside the condo shows the spa hooked up with 220/240 and the circuit breakers show the numbers "50" on each one of them. Does this mean it was hooked up with 50 amps? I told the electrician that was the case, but they assured me it was hooked up correctly and with 60amps, as I requested. Anyone with any basic electrical knowledge able to help me determine if I am being given correct information? I have caught the electricians in lies a couple of times already.

Thanks a ton

[jaysdca]

I've had a Jacuzzi J470 up and running for a couple weeks now and seem to be having some issues. The first one is with heat. While the spa is on, and both jets are on, it doesn't heat. From reading the book, this is normal if it is set up to run with 50 amps (factory default). The temperature drops from about 104 to 99 in about 30 minutes of using the tub with both jets on. Today, I turned off one jet when it reached 101. 15 minutes later, it was at 99. The other day, I only used one jet. It went from 104 to 101 with 30 minutes of use and pretty much stayed there. Is this normal?

I also don't know how to see if it was hooked up with 50 amps or 60 amps (allowing heater to work with both jets on). There are two boxes for the hot tub. The one breaker box inside the condo shows the spa hooked up with 220/240 and the circuit breakers show the numbers "50" on each one of them. Does this mean it was hooked up with 50 amps? I told the electrician that was the case, but they assured me it was hooked up correctly and with 60amps, as I requested. Anyone with any basic electrical knowledge able to help me determine if I am being given correct information? I have caught the electricians in lies a couple of times already.

Thanks a ton

It sure sounds to me like your electrician gave you 50a breakers. That said, once he puts in the 60a ones you can change it to 60a operation through the control panel.

[Headnsouth]

I've had a Jacuzzi J470 up and running for a couple weeks now and seem to be having some issues. The first one is with heat. While the spa is on, and both jets are on, it doesn't heat. From reading the book, this is normal if it is set up to run with 50 amps (factory default). The temperature drops from about 104 to 99 in about 30 minutes of using the tub with both jets on. Today, I turned off one jet when it reached 101. 15 minutes later, it was at 99. The other day, I only used one jet. It went from 104 to 101 with 30 minutes of use and pretty much stayed there. Is this normal?

I also don't know how to see if it was hooked up with 50 amps or 60 amps (allowing heater to work with both jets on). There are two boxes for the hot tub. The one breaker box inside the condo shows the spa hooked up with 220/240 and the circuit breakers show the numbers "50" on each one of them. Does this mean it was hooked up with 50 amps? I told the electrician that was the case, but they assured me it was hooked up correctly and with 60amps, as I requested. Anyone with any basic electrical knowledge able to help me determine if I am being given correct information? I have caught the electricians in lies a couple of times already.

Thanks a ton

You'll need to check the wire size also. 50amp is probably #8 wire while 60 amp should be #6 wire. Preferably THHN stranded. I just wired my J480 and used a 60amp breaker with #6 THHN to a 60amp GFCI disconnect out at the tub. Here's a copy of the electrical requirements that I received from my J dealer.

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[thecanuck22]

I've had a Jacuzzi J470 up and running for a couple weeks now and seem to be having some issues. The first one is with heat. While the spa is on, and both jets are on, it doesn't heat. From reading the book, this is normal if it is set up to run with 50 amps (factory default). The temperature drops from about 104 to 99 in about 30 minutes of using the tub with both jets on. Today, I turned off one jet when it reached 101. 15 minutes later, it was at 99. The other day, I only used one jet. It went from 104 to 101 with 30 minutes of use and pretty much stayed there. Is this normal?

I also don't know how to see if it was hooked up with 50 amps or 60 amps (allowing heater to work with both jets on). There are two boxes for the hot tub. The one breaker box inside the condo shows the spa hooked up with 220/240 and the circuit breakers show the numbers "50" on each one of them. Does this mean it was hooked up with 50 amps? I told the electrician that was the case, but they assured me it was hooked up correctly and with 60amps, as I requested. Anyone with any basic electrical knowledge able to help me determine if I am being given correct information? I have caught the electricians in lies a couple of times already.

Thanks a ton

if your tub a new install then it should be set for 50 amps allowing you to run one jet while keeping the heater operational, it sounds to me like you still have the tub configured for 30 amp service. if it is a newer model you will need to access the settings from your topside control and double check if it is an older model you can double check your jumpers on your circuit board to make sure that those are set correctly for 50 amp service. alternatively you could 'trick' your tub into thinking it is getting 60amps by setting the jumpers for that service. the jumper configuration is in your owners manual.

what year is it?

[thecanuck22]

also you said there were 2 breaker boxes? what does the second one show on the breaker?

[coursonb]

Thanks a lot guys. In response to your replies so far, here's what I found out today:

The hot tub is a brand new J470 model; must be 2009 or 2010 model year.

The wiring was #6 wire and 50amp breakers were used. The hot tub was put on a rooftop deck and wiring the hot tub was part of the quote. Apparently, in the original quote, the electrician, a subcontractor, was not given the correct information on the hot tub and quoted using 50amp breakers. He claims it will cost him about $300 to switch over to the 60amp breakers.

His solution that he is recommending is that, since the max flowrate for the 60amp service is only 45 amps, that I bypass the 50amp service on the tub and "trick" it into thinking it has 60amps. He claims the 50amp circuit breakers will be more than adequate to handle this...especially since the tub is close to the box...maybe about 50 feet from the main breaker box. By doing this, he claims the hot tub will work perfectly in all ways, just as if it had 60amp service.

My worries are twofold...will this work, and what about any warranty issues? Anyone have any experience with this idea?

[PFC5]

$300.00 seems very high unless he is charging you for his labor when it should have been 60amp to begin with. Here is a whole spa disconnect box with a 60amp GFCI breaker included for only $69.00:

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&productId=100567181&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&PID=500871&cm_mmc=CJ-_-500871-_-10368321&cpncode=24-125614591-2&AID=10368321&cj=true&srccode=cii_9324560&locStoreNum=2602&marketID=39

You do not need a GFCI breaker at the main panel so the cost to replace that should be even less. As long as he did run 6/3 wire it should only cost about $100.00 in parts to change over to 60amp.

[n1oty]

Thanks a lot guys. In response to your replies so far, here's what I found out today:

The hot tub is a brand new J470 model; must be 2009 or 2010 model year.

The wiring was #6 wire and 50amp breakers were used. The hot tub was put on a rooftop deck and wiring the hot tub was part of the quote. Apparently, in the original quote, the electrician, a subcontractor, was not given the correct information on the hot tub and quoted using 50amp breakers. He claims it will cost him about $300 to switch over to the 60amp breakers.

His solution that he is recommending is that, since the max flowrate for the 60amp service is only 45 amps, that I bypass the 50amp service on the tub and "trick" it into thinking it has 60amps. He claims the 50amp circuit breakers will be more than adequate to handle this...especially since the tub is close to the box...maybe about 50 feet from the main breaker box. By doing this, he claims the hot tub will work perfectly in all ways, just as if it had 60amp service.

My worries are twofold...will this work, and what about any warranty issues? Anyone have any experience with this idea?

What your electrician is proposing you do is a major code violation and could impact your warranty. Hot tubs are subject to the so-called "125 percent" rule because they have motors. Motors draw extra current on start-up or they could draw extra current in a locked rotor condition. Hence, the need for hot tubs to be wired and fused at 125 percent of the normal load ampacity. If a tub draws a maximum of 40 amps in a particular configuration, the conductors and protection must be sized for 50 amps in order to accomodate motor starts and a possible locked rotor. In your case, the normal maximum ampacity of the tub will be at or under 48 amps, and the conductors and protection are supposed to be sized for 60 amps. Your electrician is suggesting that it is OK for you to willfully violate the 125 percent code rule and run your tub at nearly the 100 percent level! This is ludicrous. If this were perfectly safe, the code wouldn't be calling for adhering to a 125 percent rule.

John

[david_bilton]

Thanks a lot guys. In response to your replies so far, here's what I found out today:

The hot tub is a brand new J470 model; must be 2009 or 2010 model year.

The wiring was #6 wire and 50amp breakers were used. The hot tub was put on a rooftop deck and wiring the hot tub was part of the quote. Apparently, in the original quote, the electrician, a subcontractor, was not given the correct information on the hot tub and quoted using 50amp breakers. He claims it will cost him about $300 to switch over to the 60amp breakers.

His solution that he is recommending is that, since the max flowrate for the 60amp service is only 45 amps, that I bypass the 50amp service on the tub and "trick" it into thinking it has 60amps. He claims the 50amp circuit breakers will be more than adequate to handle this...especially since the tub is close to the box...maybe about 50 feet from the main breaker box. By doing this, he claims the hot tub will work perfectly in all ways, just as if it had 60amp service.

My worries are twofold...will this work, and what about any warranty issues? Anyone have any experience with this idea?

NO DO NOT DO THIS follow n1oty's advise cover your ass from both side and be safe

[Headnsouth]

Thanks a lot guys. In response to your replies so far, here's what I found out today:

The hot tub is a brand new J470 model; must be 2009 or 2010 model year.

The wiring was #6 wire and 50amp breakers were used. The hot tub was put on a rooftop deck and wiring the hot tub was part of the quote. Apparently, in the original quote, the electrician, a subcontractor, was not given the correct information on the hot tub and quoted using 50amp breakers. He claims it will cost him about $300 to switch over to the 60amp breakers.

His solution that he is recommending is that, since the max flowrate for the 60amp service is only 45 amps, that I bypass the 50amp service on the tub and "trick" it into thinking it has 60amps. He claims the 50amp circuit breakers will be more than adequate to handle this...especially since the tub is close to the box...maybe about 50 feet from the main breaker box. By doing this, he claims the hot tub will work perfectly in all ways, just as if it had 60amp service.

My worries are twofold...will this work, and what about any warranty issues? Anyone have any experience with this idea?

$300 for a $10 breaker and a $70 Spa disconnect? Swapping out both breakers would take all of 20 minutes.

[coursonb]

Thanks everyone for your replies. The hot tub has been changed over to 60 amps and I was able to negotiate the work to be done for free.

Now that I'm in 60 amp mode, and had the spa company come out to change the hot tub logic, the heater works with both jets running. However, I'm still having more heat loss than I would expect. Tonight, with two jets turned on, and only half of the cover off, the temperature of the spa went from 105 to 102 over a 40 minute period. Last night, with the entire cover off, and both jets on, it went from 106 to 101 in 40 minutes of use. Shouldn't the heater be maintaining the temperature within a degree or two of the set temperature? It was around 20 degrees out both nights and the heater indicator was on. The heater also heats the spa back up to the set temp with the cover on.

Is this normal? The tub is a Jacuzzi J470.

Thanks a lot,

brent

[gman]

Thanks everyone for your replies. The hot tub has been changed over to 60 amps and I was able to negotiate the work to be done for free.

Now that I'm in 60 amp mode, and had the spa company come out to change the hot tub logic, the heater works with both jets running. However, I'm still having more heat loss than I would expect. Tonight, with two jets turned on, and only half of the cover off, the temperature of the spa went from 105 to 102 over a 40 minute period. Last night, with the entire cover off, and both jets on, it went from 106 to 101 in 40 minutes of use. Shouldn't the heater be maintaining the temperature within a degree or two of the set temperature? It was around 20 degrees out both nights and the heater indicator was on. The heater also heats the spa back up to the set temp with the cover on.

Is this normal? The tub is a Jacuzzi J470.

Thanks a lot,

brent

It's been a while since I wet tested a Jacuzzi 470 hot tub, but if memory serves me correctly, the jets (at least some, if not all) in this tub are designed to always operate with a combination of water and air (50/50 mix). This means that your jets are drawing exterior air into the water. If its cold outside, the exterior air introduced into the water will cool the water. The colder the air, the quicker the water will cool. Combine that with the loss of heat from the open tub, it does not surprise me that you would lose a few degrees of heat. It will be hard for your heater to compensate for both the heat loss above and the introduction of cold air into the water. This may be the cause of your drop in water temperature despite your electrical corrections. Of course, if you're not in a cold climate (or your hot tub is indoors), then you still have a problem.

FYI, I have a Sundance Optima. The Optima comes with the option to add air to the jet stream (for a different/additional hydrotherapy effect). In winter with temperatures in the teens, I lose approximately 2-3 degrees of heat over a 40 minute soak when I elect to add air into the jet's water stream. I don't recall, but I don't believe you have the option to not have air mixed with the jets in the Jacuzzi J470.

I hope this helps.

gman

[coursonb]

It's been a while since I wet tested a Jacuzzi 470 hot tub, but if memory serves me correctly, the jets (at least some, if not all) in this tub are designed to always operate with a combination of water and air (50/50 mix). This means that your jets are drawing exterior air into the water. If its cold outside, the exterior air introduced into the water will cool the water. The colder the air, the quicker the water will cool. Combine that with the loss of heat from the open tub, it does not surprise me that you would lose a few degrees of heat. It will be hard for your heater to compensate for both the heat loss above and the introduction of cold air into the water. This may be the cause of your drop in water temperature despite your electrical corrections. Of course, if you're not in a cold climate (or your hot tub is indoors), then you still have a problem.

FYI, I have a Sundance Optima. The Optima comes with the option to add air to the jet stream (for a different/additional hydrotherapy effect). In winter with temperatures in the teens, I lose approximately 2-3 degrees of heat over a 40 minute soak when I elect to add air into the jet's water stream. I don't recall, but I don't believe you have the option to not have air mixed with the jets in the Jacuzzi J470.

I hope this helps.

gman

Thanks for the info. Sounds like some good stuff that I wasn't even thinking about. I do believe thee J470 has the option to add or not add air to the jets. There are knobs by each jet that I believe 'add' air bubbles to the jets. I'm not positive that they are 'adding' air, or if it merely increasing the amount of air going through the jets. I'll have to test the heat loss with and without those knobs in the on position.

Anyone else have any experience with the J470?

[Headnsouth]

From what my dealer told me is the jacuzzi's (I have a 480)get there air from inside the cabinet, which is warmed from the pumps running. How warm I couldn't say.

We've been running our 480 every night here in Ga with average temps being around 40 the last couple of nights. We'll drop a degree at most so far with the cover off for 40 mins.