Bromine Floater - Final Questions Before The Switch

[Moondoggy]

Hello Guys,

First, thanks all for the knowledge you share here. Definitely helping me wrangle the world of spa chemistry. I'm about to convert to Bromine tabs from chlorine for what appears to be the solution for my travel schedule. Often return after 4 days with chlorine at 0. I do have the Waterbear Bromine program printed (very helpful), and all the supplies ready to go(bromide salts, bomine tabs, floater, K-2106 test kit, etc.), but have a couple of questions before the switch.

1. Is there any reason to not completely fill the floater with the tabs? More tabs = last longer but a local dealer indicated only 3-4 tabs at a time

2. Will be shocking with MPS (Renew). With chlorine, I shocked with MPS every soak. But it appears this may not be the case with Bromine - just weekly?

3. Was using Nature 2 with chlorine, liked the idea. Got the Spa Frog mineral stick to hopefully allow low Bromine levels (1-3ppm?). Thoughts on this?

If helpful, here's my spa details: 550 gallons, soak 2-3x per week for 1/2 hour, usually 2 adults and one child. Any guidance is appreciated.

Thanks!

[quantumchromodynamics]

1. Is there any reason to not completely fill the floater with the tabs? More tabs = last longer but a local dealer indicated only 3-4 tabs at a time.

Too much risk of overdosing. 3 to 4 tabs should be fine.

2. Will be shocking with MPS (Renew). With chlorine, I shocked with MPS every soak. But it appears this may not be the case with Bromine - just weekly?

The difference with bromine is that the MPS will primarily oxidize bromide to bromine, where in a chlorine tub, it would remain as MPS and oxidize bather waste, and help reduce chloramines.

chem geek's recommended rule-of thumb is to add 5 fluid ounces of 6% unscented bleach or 7 teaspoons of 43% MPS per person hour of soaking. This seems to work well for most people as long as they adjust the amounts based on their readings. I think that you could add MPS or bleach after soaking. I recommend bleach because the MPS adds sulfates that some people might have an adverse reaction to.

The key is to maintain an adequate sanitizer level at all times. Your floater will provide a continuous bromine supply. You should try to use the minimum amount of tabs as possible to reduce the buildup of 5-5 dimethylhydantoin. 5-5 dimethylhydantoin is the carrier chemical for the bromine in the tabs similar to how cyanuric acid is the carrier for chlorine in trichlor or dichlor. You should add enough bleach after you soak so that there is a sufficient level for your next soak (about 4 ppm)

3. Was using Nature 2 with chlorine, liked the idea. Got the Spa Frog mineral stick to hopefully allow low Bromine levels (1-3ppm?). Thoughts on this?

Minerals are a waste of time and money. They are actually counterproductive. I recommend against them.

Note: The bromine tabs should supply the static demand. The static demand is the bromine demand with no use. One of the key benefits to using bromine is the use of tabs for people who might be away for longer periods of time.

You should tune the tab feeder such that if you didn't do anything for a week, the bromine level would still be in the ideal range, not too high or too low.

The dynamic demand should be supplied by the addition of bleach based on the usage, typically measured in person-hours.

[Hillbilly Hot Tub]

1. Is there any reason to not completely fill the floater with the tabs? More tabs = last longer but a local dealer indicated only 3-4 tabs at a time.

Too much risk of overdosing. 3 to 4 tabs should be fine.

2. Will be shocking with MPS (Renew). With chlorine, I shocked with MPS every soak. But it appears this may not be the case with Bromine - just weekly?

The difference with bromine is that the MPS will primarily oxidize bromide to bromine, where in a chlorine tub, it would remain as MPS and oxidize bather waste, and help reduce chloramines.

chem geek's recommended rule-of thumb is to add 5 fluid ounces of 6% unscented bleach or 7 teaspoons of 43% MPS per person hour of soaking. This seems to work well for most people as long as they adjust the amounts based on their readings. I think that you could add MPS or bleach after soaking. I recommend bleach because the MPS adds sulfates that some people might have an adverse reaction to.

You do not need to shock at every use with bromine tablets, there is chlorine in with the tablets that does this for you. Follow water bears bromine treatment program.

The key is to maintain an adequate sanitizer level at all times. Your floater will provide a continuous bromine supply. You should try to use the minimum amount of tabs as possible to reduce the buildup of 5-5 dimethylhydantoin. 5-5 dimethylhydantoin is the carrier chemical for the bromine in the tabs similar to how cyanuric acid is the carrier for chlorine in trichlor or dichlor. You should add enough bleach after you soak so that there is a sufficient level for your next soak (about 4 ppm)

3. Was using Nature 2 with chlorine, liked the idea. Got the Spa Frog mineral stick to hopefully allow low Bromine levels (1-3ppm?). Thoughts on this?

Minerals are a waste of time and money. They are actually counterproductive. I recommend against them.

Some will disagree, you will be able to keep a lower risdual of bromine if you use the mineral stick, this is what they are for. They will not sanitize on their own, but i would rather soak in 1-3 ppm of bromine than 4-6 ppm of bromine personally.

Note: The bromine tabs should supply the static demand. The static demand is the bromine demand with no use. One of the key benefits to using bromine is the use of tabs for people who might be away for longer periods of time.

You should tune the tab feeder such that if you didn't do anything for a week, the bromine level would still be in the ideal range, not too high or too low.

or turn your feeder down a bit when you are going away, keep it where it needs to be with less shocking while you are home= less chemical use

The dynamic demand should be supplied by the addition of bleach based on the usage, typically measured in person-hours.

[quantumchromodynamics]

Hillbilly Hot Tub

You do not need to shock at every use with bromine tablets, there is chlorine in with the tablets that does this for you. Follow water bears bromine treatment program.

Bromine cannot be done with only tablets. Period.

My opinion is that the tabs should only supply the base demand, and that the rest should be supplied by regular, unscented bleach. This will give you better control over the levels and it will reduce the buildup of 5-5 dimethyl hydantoin.

Also, the way you put your comments into my post makes it unclear what I said vs. what you added. You should not include your comments directly into someone else's post.

[waterbear]

My opinion is that the tabs should only supply the base demand, and that the rest should be supplied by regular, unscented bleach. This will give you better control over the levels and it will reduce the buildup of 5-5 dimethyl hydantoin.

Since water changes occur every 3-4 months this is really a non issue. Shocking once a week to destroy bromamines and organics and adjusting the floater to maintain the bromine in between is all that is needed, assuming sodium bromide is added on fill to create the bromide bank. The floater should be adjusted to maintain a constant bromine level in the tub in th proper range. The number of tablets in thje floater is immaterial if it is adjusted properly and is a decent floater such as the Rainbow/Pentair ones. Why complicate what is really a simple thing?

If you really want to go to the trouble of adding an oxidizer daily then don't use the tablets at all and just do a 2 step bromine. However, this is much more work and requires daily attention. Plus side is there will be NO dimethylhydantoin!

[SJ Hart]

We recently went on a 2+ week vacation. Was a little worried about my bromine level... Anway, my Jacuzzi tub allow you to put a Bromine dispenser inside the filter. I filled that one all the way up with tabs and then added my floater at the minimum level (also completely filled with tablets), but the opening VERY small just to trickle in the Bromine. Came home and the level was a bit high (5-6), but everything was fine. Let the level drop (removed the floater). All worked well. Not sure, but since you are not actually using the tub, you shouldn't really require as much Bromine. Also, I shocked the tub before we left and turned the heater OFF. SJ

[quantumchromodynamics]

waterbear

The floater should be adjusted to maintain a constant bromine level in the tub in the proper range.

That is my main point. The feeder should supply only the amount that is needed when the tub is not being used. That way, the tub owner does not need to add every day, only when they use the tub, and only the amount needed based on usage, which may be sporadic. The primary problem I was trying to avoid was ending up with too much bromine.

waterbear

Check your pH and bromine before you go in each time and if bromine is low add a few tablespoons of bleach and retest until it is above 4 but below 10 ppm.

Basically what I am saying. Test and adjust when you use. Since you don't know how much the tub will be used, it's hard to adjust the feeder to supply the correct amount. However, once the tub is used, you can add the correct amount based on usage.

[waterbear]

Since you don't know how much the tub will be used, it's hard to adjust the feeder to supply the correct amount. However, once the tub is used, you can add the correct amount based on usage.

Having lived with a bromine tub for many years that was used by anywhere from 1 to 6 people on a fairly regular basis I have to disagree. Once the floater is adjusted bromine is usually in range before tub use (this is assuming a weekly shock and sodium bromide added on each fill, tub normally kept covered so sunlight is not a major factor and bromine floater kept filled). The amount of times adjustments needed to be made before tub use can probably be counted on my fingers and was usually because I forgot to check for tablets in the floater.

The only sanitizing system that I personally have found to be less work at maintaining sanitizer levels is a SWCG on a properly balanced pool.

[Moondoggy]

The information is great - thanks!

So just to clarify, it appears the floater will take care of most of my weekly sanitizing needs - once set up to maintain proper levels (and I will be sure to start with sodium bromide). If you can help me understand a couple scenarios - it would be appreciated:

1. About to go for a soak and bromine levels are low, so it's needs an MPS shock to bring back in range. With Natures 2, I would add 2 tbs of Renew and retest after 15 minutes. When it was in range (and usually was), ok to go in. Does that go with the Bromine as well - about 2 tbs?

I do understand that liquid bleach offers some benefits, but currently prefer the idea of dry with MPS due to easier, for me, use with reduced splashing or spills and dry storage.

3. It's been a week of soaking fun (average around 3-5 soaking hours in a 550 gallon tub) and it's time for my weekly shock. Should I be using ChemGeeks' 7 teaspoons of 43% MPS per person hour of soaking formula? This equals about 7-11 tablespoons of MPS for weekly shock. Am I understanding this right? Seems like alot

Any guidance is appreciated.

.

Thanks again.

[chem geek]

Should I be using ChemGeeks' 7 teaspoons of 43% MPS per person hour of soaking formula? This equals about 7-11 tablespoons of MPS for weekly shock. Am I understanding this right? Seems like alot

That formula only works when there are no other oxidizers, so no ozonator and no bromine. You already have bromine in your tub so will likely need less MPS, but realistically you wouldn't be adding that weekly anyway unless you set your bromine feeder up high enough to mostly handle your bather load. If you want the bromine to handle most of your bather load, then the weekly MPS shock would probably be no more than around 10 ppm chlorine equivalent or around 10 teaspoons (about 3 tablespoons) in 350 gallons. I don't think you'll need to go any higher than that...see how things go.

[waterbear]

The whole idea of the weekly shock is to burn off any organics and reduce the bromamines which, while being an effective santizer unlike chloramine, can have a 'fishy' smell. You want enough oxidizer to bring the bromine readings above about 12-15 ppm. Run the tub UNCOVERED to allow things to gas off until the bromine level is below 10. You are now done shocking.

If you are going to use the MPS then start with the amount chem geek suggested and test the bromine about 10 minutes after adding it and see if you are high enough. If not add a bit more and retest. Once you know how much you need you can just add that amount for your weekly shock. Ditto if you are using bleach. Start with about 3/4 cup in 350 gallons and if not enough add it in 1/4 cup increments until you know how much is needed to get the bromine level high enough.

[Hillbilly Hot Tub]

Sorry quatum about my confusing posts, not on enough anymore to figure out how to qoute a quote. thanks for picking up on what i was saying water bear..job well done...pat on the back