Salt Water System

[Tubber McGee]

If you were buying a new tub (as I assume most people here already own a tub), WOULD YOU PAY AN ADDITIONAL $1000 for a SALT WATER SYSTEM or HOT SPRINGS ACE SYSTEM - assuming you know about these systems and could afford it!

YES or NO

[dark rider]

If you were buying a new tub (as I assume most people here already own a tub), WOULD YOU PAY AN ADDITIONAL $1000 for a SALT WATER SYSTEM or HOT SPRINGS ACE SYSTEM - assuming you know about these systems and could afford it!

YES or NO

It didn't cost me $1K, more like $500, but I opted to get the ACE on the Grandee I ordered. I'm about 2 weeks out from delivery. The hardware costs should more than pay for themselves in chemical savings over the tub's usable life.

[spawn]

I would not pay more for the ACE system. It might save you some $ if you use silk balance as your chems which very very few users do. For the vast majority, you will never recover the cost of intial unit plus electrode replacement. The reason to buy the system is not cost savngs - the reason to buy is convenience as apposed to frequent sanitizer application for chlorine users. Bromine users with automatic dispensing systems such as Marquis or floaters that can be used in any tub would have similar reduced involvment with chems but would have simpler, less cost system. The dichlor bleach system described in the chemistry forum is the cheapest way to go with chems but requires almost daily dosing of sanitizer which works great for some but is unacceptable for others.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Of course the thing to keep in mind is that this is an option. It's for those willing to pay $1k for a good auto-sanitizing system and I can tell you that there are a LOT of people that will be willing from my experience. People very often go into a spa purchase worried about being able to care for the water and many have asked me in the past why there isn't an automated system. Now some will look at it from a practical/$$ standpoint and pass but its typically someone who is already comfortable with water care to some degree or just confident they will be. There are also some who are comfortable but just want the ease a good system may provide. To each his own.

I do find one thing ironic when thinking about this and one thing I have always rolled my eyes at being a practical coupon-clipping person. Spa owners love waterfalls and all the fancy lighting you see on top ALL of the line spas nowadays. However, nobody says "I wish that was an option rather than standard equipment" when they buy an Optima, Grandee, Sarena Bay, Niagara, etc. If the lighting and waterfall was an option rather than standard on those spas it would probably be $800 or $1000. In that case we might have this same conversation but instead wonder who would opt to add those but since they're "included" (meaning you are paying for it, you just aren't choosing it) nobody really complains that they have it and in fact people LOVE those things.

I think an auto-sanitizing system is a great option for people who want it. The key is for it to deliver as promised.

[dark rider]

ACE was definitely purchased as a convenience thing for me, and had nothing to do with the chemical savings. However, if it proves reliable over even a modest 10 year life, I should break even based on my rough calculations. $500 buy in + one electrode replacement (every 5-7 years) for an additional $300 equals $800 total. Salt runs about $40 for a year, so factor in another $400 for a grand total of $1200 for 10 years or an average of $120 per year. Had I not gone with ACE, I wouldn't have run straight dichlor/bleach, but would have also used the N2 product, which alone sells for $120 a year! If the dichlor bleach costs about $80, I would be exactly at the break even point at 10 years, not counting the time and hassle of measuring, dosing, and testing more regularly. I should also have extended drains of 6-12 months, and softer/less irritating water.

I'm by no means an expert when it comes to water testing/adjusting, but I probably have more experience than the average person. I spent about 7 years throughout high school and college as a lifeguard at a commercial facility that had both pools and hot tubs. Suffice it to say, it's been a number of years, but I would have no problems buying/using a Taylor test kit. That said, I also know how much of a hassle water chemistry can be when things get out of whack. All of our pools and tubs were on automated dosing systems (liquid chlorine) and it helped immensely! As long as it's not costing me an arm and a leg, which it isn't, I think ACE will exceed my expectations, and I'll be the first to chime in if the reality is different, after living with it for a while.

[spawn]

I agree with dark rider that the intent when buying a salt water system should be for convenience. The ACE user will still need to tweak things when demand changes.

As far as costs for sanitizer, I don't spend much. I can usually get a 182 oz bottle of chlorox for about $2.50. Right now, I can buy two bottles at Costco for $4.41 or about $2.20 per bottle. We usually use 4 oz for one person-hour of soaking. Using the higher cost of 2.50 for 182 oz works out to about about 5.5 cents per person-hr. Using the tub daily as my wife and I do, two people together for 30 minutes would result in a monthly cost of $1.65 for 30 days. For twelve months we would be at less than $20. Add a little for dichlor during the first week after a fill or a bit of MPS and more chlorine for a gathering and we're still under $25 per year. Of course there are the other chems for water balance at the time of filling, but these are needed whether using ACE, bromine, chlorine etc. and don't really add up to too much. I don't use nature2.

So if I was using an ACE sytem, I would spend more for salt ($40) than I currently do for sanitizer (<$25). Add in the cost of the system ($500 - $1000), electrodes ($300) and it is apparent that the ACE system would cost much more. However, for some people, the additional cost may be worth the convenience. As for the complexity of water care - some people definitely have trouble but the problem is usually related to water balance, not sanitizer. It is easy for me to understand that I should pour 4oz per hour from a graduated 32 oz bottle. As with the ACE system you have to experiment a little at first to determine the right amount for your use and particular people. I don't know if the electrodes quit suddenly or if their output gradually declines but you may want to have replacement electrodes on hand if you go that route. If you do have a problem with the system your ability to care for the water is compromised. With bleach you don't have the potential issue of a system failure.

Good luck with your choice. Both approaches work well although the ACE system is still developing a track record but so far people seem to be happy with it.

[Kenny W]

Since the ace system and other system only make sanitizer and you you still have to balance the water I wouldn't get one personally. The ACE system makes sanitizer and active Oxygen but is not automatic. As Stated above user much change settings as the tub is being used.

I have found and use in the spa Frog Stick and a good ozonator (NOT bulb type) and a little chlorine.

Kenny

[dark rider]

Correct, ACE monitors salt levels only and tells you when to add salt. The chlorine dosage is based on the usage settings. You still need to take occasional readings and may need to make minor adjustments based on usage. However, with consistent usage, most report that there is no need to make regular adjustments. It also has a customizable boost setting for parties, and will revert back to normal after a set time.

[rsc92]

If one decided to do so, can the ACE system by Hot Spring be bypassed or shut off?

[Tubber McGee]

Doesnt the ACE system provide softer water (seems like pool owners with the salt systems talk about how much better the water feels!

Also, wouldn't the salt system be easier on bathing suits and such?

Shouldn't these advantages have a small part in the decision process?

Thks

[dark rider]

If one decided to do so, can the ACE system by Hot Spring be bypassed or shut off?

Yes, the ACE hardware is easily diconnected, and HotSpring leaves the ozonator hardware in place to convert back to non-ACE at any time..

[dark rider]

Doesnt the ACE system provide softer water (seems like pool owners with the salt systems talk about how much better the water feels!

Also, wouldn't the salt system be easier on bathing suits and such?

Shouldn't these advantages have a small part in the decision process?

Thks

The water is noticeably softer and should be easier on the skin, bathing suits, and tub pillows due to lower CH, TA, and FC readings.

[rsc92]

If one decided to do so, can the ACE system by Hot Spring be bypassed or shut off?

Yes, the ACE hardware is easily diconnected, and HotSpring leaves the ozonator hardware in place to convert back to non-ACE at any time..

I would check that with your dealer. I just spoke to a HS Dealer and he told me that they remove the Ozonator when they install the ACE system. I think you will need to make a special request that they give it to you so that you can store it in the event you ever needed it. Just throwing it out there.

[dark rider]

If one decided to do so, can the ACE system by Hot Spring be bypassed or shut off?

Yes, the ACE hardware is easily diconnected, and HotSpring leaves the ozonator hardware in place to convert back to non-ACE at any time..

I would check that with your dealer. I just spoke to a HS Dealer and he told me that they remove the Ozonator when they install the ACE system. I think you will need to make a special request that they give it to you so that you can store it in the event you ever needed it. Just throwing it out there.

OK, one of the techs here corrected me privately. The ACE equipped tubs ship with the Freshwater III ozonator factory installed. Apparently, it's the dealer who performs the ACE install and makes a decision on whether or not to leave the ozonator in place. My dealer showed me the entire layout on their factory tub and confirmed that mine would ship the same way. If it doesn't, I'll be sure to post and make a stink at the dealer. My guess is the dealer you spoke with pulls the Freshwater III CD unit and holds them to resell, since they sell for about $275 a pop, and likely won't see use on a ACE equipped tub. If the buyer is notified of the fact up front, than I wouldn't say it's a problem, but if they yank them and don't tell the buyer, I would say that it's deceptive. At the very least, they should be reinstalling them at no cost, if the buyer ever converts back. The ozonator is not an option on HotSpring tubs. It's the ACE that is the option, and it costs extra. They should be giving you the ozonator as well.

[rsc92]

If one decided to do so, can the ACE system by Hot Spring be bypassed or shut off?

Yes, the ACE hardware is easily diconnected, and HotSpring leaves the ozonator hardware in place to convert back to non-ACE at any time..

I would check that with your dealer. I just spoke to a HS Dealer and he told me that they remove the Ozonator when they install the ACE system. I think you will need to make a special request that they give it to you so that you can store it in the event you ever needed it. Just throwing it out there.

OK, one of the techs here corrected me privately. The ACE equipped tubs ship with the Freshwater III ozonator factory installed. Apparently, it's the dealer who performs the ACE install and makes a decision on whether or not to leave the ozonator in place. My dealer showed me the entire layout on their factory tub and confirmed that mine would ship the same way. If it doesn't, I'll be sure to post and make a stink at the dealer. My guess is the dealer you spoke with pulls the Freshwater III CD unit and holds them to resell, since they sell for about $275 a pop, and likely won't see use on a ACE equipped tub. If the buyer is notified of the fact up front, than I wouldn't say it's a problem, but if they yank them and don't tell the buyer, I would say that it's deceptive. At the very least, they should be reinstalling them at no cost, if the buyer ever converts back. The ozonator is not an option on HotSpring tubs. It's the ACE that is the option, and it costs extra. They should be giving you the ozonator as well.

For whatever its worth, spoke to my local dealer yesterday about this and the sales rep was giving me a hard time. I told her the spa ships with the ozonator and since I am paying for it, I want to keep it if they remove it to isntall the Salt System. She said that is not what they do. WTF?

[dark rider]

For whatever its worth, spoke to my local dealer yesterday about this and the sales rep was giving me a hard time. I told her the spa ships with the ozonator and since I am paying for it, I want to keep it if they remove it to isntall the Salt System. She said that is not what they do. WTF?

Easy solution... ask them to deduct $275 from your sales price. If they're serious about the sale, I'm sure you'll get it.

[rsc92]

For whatever its worth, spoke to my local dealer yesterday about this and the sales rep was giving me a hard time. I told her the spa ships with the ozonator and since I am paying for it, I want to keep it if they remove it to isntall the Salt System. She said that is not what they do. WTF?

Easy solution... ask them to deduct $275 from your sales price. If they're serious about the sale, I'm sure you'll get it.

They know they are the only game in town and they are asking $11,400 for a Vanguard with cover, panel, everwood steps, cover cradle and ACE. They wont budge. I am likely going to order from a dealer that is 100 miles away whose price is $2,400 less.

[hottublady]

For whatever its worth, spoke to my local dealer yesterday about this and the sales rep was giving me a hard time. I told her the spa ships with the ozonator and since I am paying for it, I want to keep it if they remove it to isntall the Salt System. She said that is not what they do. WTF?

Easy solution... ask them to deduct $275 from your sales price. If they're serious about the sale, I'm sure you'll get it.

They know they are the only game in town and they are asking $11,400 for a Vanguard with cover, panel, everwood steps, cover cradle and ACE. They wont budge. I am likely going to order from a dealer that is 100 miles away whose price is $2,400 less.

Where are you located? is there any demo models for less?

[rsc92]

I just found a dealer who leaves the ozonator in the spa with the ACE system. He said that he leaves it in because it is another device to sanitze the water. The drawback he said of leaving it in is that it breaks down the salt content, so you may need to add salt to the spa on occassion. Thoughts?

[hottublady]

can you really have both systems running at the same time?

[dark rider]

I don't think there's anything that would prevent you from running both systems at the same time. I doubt that it would be any more effective, but as the dealer indicated, it would likely cause salt consumption to go up. I wonder what HotSpring's formal position is?

[chem geek]

Ozone does not break down salt so I don't know what they are talking about. Maybe putting the ozonator injection before the salt cell could damage the cell, but it has nothing to do with salt itself. Or maybe they are talking about ozone oxidizing chlorine to chlorate which increases chlorine demand -- that is seen it tubs that don't get much use.

[dark rider]

Correct. I can't speak for the dealer, but I was referring to the indirect relationship. The rising chlorine demand would cause the user to up their settings, thus using more salt.

[Tubber McGee]

My dealer has tubs on the floor with the ozonator hooked up! said if I wanted to go with the ACE system that they convert at the dealer and they could leave the ozonator in the tub and just disconnet the wires - in case I want to use in the future!

I wonder if you order straight from the factory if you have the option to keep the ozonator????

[rsc92]

I spoke with a Senior Tech at Watkins yesterday. He said that they recommend that the Ozonator be disconnected if using the ACE system. It is perfectly fine to leave it in the Tub, but disconnect the wires.