I'm Not Even Sure What The Questions Are.

[Rerax]

We have an old redwood hot tub built into a deck in the rear corner of our property. It hasn't been used in about four years.

We always talk about getting the hot tub going again; we loved it. Today I was at the county fair and saw a Marquis Envoy (round and about the same size as our hot tub). The salesman offered me a "floor model" deal of $3,750 delivered, or $300 extra for a crane delivery.

If I could just put $3,750 on the American Express and have a working, comfortable hot tub - I'd be all over it. But, money's tight at the moment and I want to make the right decision.

So, I'm trying to do this logically and figure out what I need to know.

The Old Tub:

Redwood, deep, nice looking, and built into a small redwood deck. Working gas Teledyne heater and functional pump. (Looks more like a pool heater.) It's about 18 years old and last time it needed repairs (about six years ago), it was because two air jet supplies (flexible PVC) came unglued. Two years later it started leaking again, and I'm not even sure if the pipes needing repair are easily accessible. Should I 1) take a stab at repairing this tub again, 2) call an expert, or 3) give up on it because of its age?

The New Tub:

Shape: I figured a round one would be best because it's the same shape of our old one. But, the Envy is more than a foot shallower. I'm wondering if we're going to be happy with a shallower round tub.

Access: Side yard access is 31" maximum, or about $1,000 to remove and replace fencing and plants. A crane would have to go back about 75' at a 30 degree angle. Is that even possible? Or, the new tub could come through the house, the smallest door is 35.5" wide but has an arched top with a 73" minimum height (just got up to measure). Crud, there goes that idea. I guess the first step is to see if a crane is possible and then get a better idea of the cost to remove/replace yard improvements.

Okay, that's a start. If it would make it easier to evaluate, I can post some photos and elevation diagrams (for the crane); that is if anyone is willing to help me sort all this out. (I feel kind of bad coming on here for the first time with a bunch of questions, but I'm not sure where else to start.)

Okay, I guess I'm going to be dreaming of hot tubs tonight.

Good Night all.

[Dnepr Dave]

I'd try and fix the old tub first. If that is unsuccessful, then look for a new one.

Dave

[zuegnu]

I just bought a used Envy 08' and I can say the "deep" seating area is plenty deep for me (5'11", the water goes just above my shoulders.

[Rerax]

... plenty deep for me ...

Thanks, I'm the same height so that's valuable information. I assume you're happy with your Envy (that sounds funny, huh?) or you would have said something.

Next concern is the urgency and the price. The guy from the fair is coming over in about 10 minutes to check out the delivery situation. So, I need to decide whether $3,750 plus $300 crane is such a great price that I should abandon the idea of repairing the old spa and get this one right away.

Again, thanks for any help.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

... plenty deep for me ...

Thanks, I'm the same height so that's valuable information. I assume you're happy with your Envy (that sounds funny, huh?) or you would have said something.

Next concern is the urgency and the price. The guy from the fair is coming over in about 10 minutes to check out the delivery situation. So, I need to decide whether $3,750 plus $300 crane is such a great price that I should abandon the idea of repairing the old spa and get this one right away.

Again, thanks for any help.

If you get a new one will you sit in it and scold yourself for not giving a full shot at fixing the old one? If so then delay the new one and see if the old one still has life without dumping a lot of cash into it.

If getting the new one will not make you feel regretful then go for it but I would NOT in any way make my decision based on the salesperson convincing you that this is a one time deal (even if true which it more often than not isn't). If you go back in 2 months saying you're ready now I suspect the deal will be there for you and I'd take that chance it would be if I really wanted to give the old one a shot first.

[zuegnu]

... plenty deep for me ...

Thanks, I'm the same height so that's valuable information. I assume you're happy with your Envy (that sounds funny, huh?) or you would have said something.

Next concern is the urgency and the price. The guy from the fair is coming over in about 10 minutes to check out the delivery situation. So, I need to decide whether $3,750 plus $300 crane is such a great price that I should abandon the idea of repairing the old spa and get this one right away.

Again, thanks for any help.

If you get a new one will you sit in it and scold yourself for not giving a full shot at fixing the old one? If so then delay the new one and see if the old one still has life without dumping a lot of cash into it.

If getting the new one will not make you feel regretful then go for it but I would NOT in any way make my decision based on the salesperson convincing you that this is a one time deal (even if true which it more often than not isn't). If you go back in 2 months saying you're ready now I suspect the deal will be there for you and I'd take that chance it would be if I really wanted to give the old one a shot first.

I would agree about not rushing and feeling pressured by the price, I can't speak for your area or dealers but where I am it seemed like a price the dealers were willing to stay around? I was down to a Sundance and Marquis round tub. For what it is worth I had quotes of about the same for the new Envy and about 3900 for the Sundance Denali. The Envy price was gotten at a "fair/homeshow" and was a little bit pressured, while the Sundance dealer just told me to come in when ready and they would be happy to work with me and hold that price. They were quite nice and made me feel comfortable. I am happy with the tub and I even have it hooked up 110V but I am in a warm climate. That being said I dont love lots of jets and find the Envy plenty good. One thing I would like is the foot jets.

[Rerax]

Thanks, that's more really helpful information.

Well, the salesman from the fair hasn't shown up yet after promising to be here an hour ago. His cell phone goes straight to voicemail. I'm thinking that he's less excited after hearing that I was ready to make a deal just as soon as I verified that his price was as good as he claimed. (Who would have guessed that an out of state county fair spa salesman would be slightly less than responsible?) )

A friend just came by and told me that the crane would be no problem but that I would need the $600 crane, not the $300 one. So, based on everything I know so far, I'm going to set my limit at about $3,100 delivered to my driveway. That would be a 25% discount for a less-than-brand-new one, which feels about right to me. It will probably all boil down to whether they still have it available on the last day of the fair.

[Rerax]

One other thing. I've called the local Marquis store several times now during business hours. The calls go straight to voicemail. If I'm not able to talk to someone about buying one of their spas, how hard is it going to be to get service after the sale?

[Mikey_in_NY]

One other thing. I've called the local Marquis store several times now during business hours. The calls go straight to voicemail. If I'm not able to talk to someone about buying one of their spas, how hard is it going to be to get service after the sale?

Very good point - I think you know the answer to that one.

[hottubdan]

One other thing. I've called the local Marquis store several times now during business hours. The calls go straight to voicemail. If I'm not able to talk to someone about buying one of their spas, how hard is it going to be to get service after the sale?

What part of the country are you? Do you have other brands you can look at. Sundance? HotSpring/HotSpot? Others?

[Rerax]

What part of the country are you? Do you have other brands you can look at. Sundance? HotSpring/HotSpot? Others?

I'm in Ventura, California; only an hour north of Los Angeles. There is no shortage of spa dealers in the area.

The deal at the fair tempted me because I'm the type to spend a year shopping for something like this (or four years procrastinating at fixing up our old wooden hot tub). I was hoping that the price would be so good that the decision would be a no-brainer. Of course, I'm just now realizing that there really are no second chances when it comes to a hot tub decision (except at Costco, but that's another topic altogether).

Seems to me that since it's almost impossible to get one's money back by selling a used spa, I'd better be right the first time around. That doesn't mean I'm going to break down and spend $10,000 though. A spa is definitely worth $3,000 to me but anything more than that is tough (for me, not necessarily someone else) to justify.

My wife just helped me come up with a good plan for installing the new spa. We could cut the redwood hot tub off at deck level and then (structurally) cover the bottom part so that it's level with the deck. Coincidentally, the Envy is exactly the same height as the above-deck part of our old tub, so we could just slide the new hot tube right into it's spot and start enjoying it immediately.

[Rerax]

Update coming...

[Rerax]

I accidentally posted it three times because I kept loosing the connection.

[Rerax]

Well, it's been a busy week, with our older parents going through different stages of medical care. I visited Hot Springs Spas and they were friendly but unwilling to quote prices. They suggested that I have their technician take a look at our existing spa and figure out if a repair is affordable and/or what our alternatives are for replacement spas. He's coming over on Tuesday.

The guy at the fair from Marquis called tonight. I apologized for not getting back to him and explained that we had been concentrating solely on our parents. He said that they were 1 sale short of their Fair quota and although the floor model had been sold, he could give me an even better deal on a brand new one - $3,495. I told him that the only way I would commit tonight was if he could match the Costco deal - $3,000. He said he would talk to his manager and call me back but I had to go to the hospital and I missed his call.

So, tomorrow morning I'll either be looking forward to a new Marquis Envy or a visit from the Hot Springs tech.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

He said that they were 1 sale short of their Fair quota and although the floor model had been sold, he could give me an even better deal on a brand new one

LOL, I hope you didn't buy that "one short of our quota" comment.

Priceless, almost as good as the old "someone just cancled an order on that exact same spa so we've got one in inventory ready to ship and just for you my manager agreed that we'll ...".

[spawn]

Rerax - I am a big fan of the round tubs and looked at many of them. The marquis envy is a top quality tub, well made and with an excellent warranty. I don't know about your dealer, but the manufacturer has a great reputation. I came very close to buying an envy but in the end bought a larger and more costly tub, the D1 Arena. The Marquis envy sounds like a great match for you and I think that the prices you and the dealer are discussing are quite good. You may want to get a better feel for how responsive the dealer will be if you have problems. Note that with the tub you are looking at, a simple single pump tub with reasoanble jetting from a manufacturer of very well made tubs your problems should be minimal. Nonetheless, you may want to get a better feel for the support.

[Rerax]

LOL, I hope you didn't buy that "one short of our quota" comment.

I'll dance to any song they're singing as long as it gets me a great deal!

Based on the limited information I was able to gather in a short time (with Costco's prices being the only good hard data) I've decided that a price of $3,000 is worth a quick decision. The salesman reduced the price to $3,800 and then $3,700 before I even asked for his best price and then took another few hundred bucks off when I merely suggested that price will be a factor. When I said $3,000 was my limit (because I know that for $3,000 I can get a Costco spa that I can return at any time) he didn't tell me to get lost, he said he would check it out. I'm happy to keep dancing as long as we keep heading in the right direction.

It seems like most spa buyers have a really hard time getting straight answers on prices. There are lots of opinions regarding the quality of spas at places like Costco and Sears but at least you know upfront exactly what the price is. The Marquis salesman at the County Fair was a really likable low-pressure but effective salesman. He was a younger guy but he had the wisdom to know that his job was to make it easy for people to buy one of his spas. I don't mind if he goes through the routine that his boss tells him to follow, and when he says he "has one left" we both know that he is really just saying that he is willing to continue negotiating.

The local Hot Springs dealer has a nice showroom and the owner was very cordial and informative, except when it came to price. Even more than I dislike the harmless sales pitches from the guy at the fair, I really resent the manipulative and demeaning lines like, "We aren't going to tell you the price because it would just distract us from the goal of finding the best spa for you, personally." In so many ways they try to tell you that only complete idiots worry about the cost and that they're the only ones in the world who make a quality product and aren't out to cheat you out of your money. All the while, the prices seem to gravitate towards that $10,000 mark, and all for a plastic shell and some mysterious pumps, heaters, filter, and plumbing. I don't want to join anyone's religion; I just want to find out what choices are feasible and how much each choice will cost. The whole concealed price thing just makes me feel that it's one of those "scam industries" like home water filtration systems or designer fashions.

It's just a spa! I make X amount of money, have Y amount of savings, and relative to the rest of my life, it's worth Z dollars to sit in bubbling hot water. For me, Z is a couple thousand bucks, maybe stretched to a few thousand if I really like the aesthetics. Any more than that and I'll just settle for sitting in my bathtub.

No offense to those who like to make quick decisions, buy the best, and can justify the expense. I'm not saying that everyone should look at this the way I do. My decision might not be a good decision for you even if it is for me.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

If I were shopping for a spa and asked the price of one and they would not answer me I would inform them the visit is over if they can't answer that simple question. I understand they want to complete a presentation (been there) but they have to take into account the customer's desired approach to the process and they should stop and tell the customer the price, plain and simple.

[Rerax]

If I were shopping for a spa and asked the price of one and they would not answer me I would inform them the visit is over...

Haha, yeah, as I was leaving the Hot Springs dealer I was thinking about what I would tell my wife if she came home with a story about how she found a car she wanted but that the dealer wouldn't tell her how much it costs. I'd tell her she was being a wimp.

Anyway, the technical representative from the Hot Springs dealer is coming over tomorrow to lay out my options. I'm going to be curious to see if he completely dismisses the idea of repairing my old tub and goes immediately into figuring out how the $10,000 spa can be fit into my yard. For now, he gets the benefit of the doubt. When my brother and his wife bought their Hot Springs spa, they said they got excellent service.

[Chas]

I went out the next day as promised, and we looked things over. There was a bad glue joint in the 1.5" spa flex which had pulled apart, making a huge leak.

The tub was still holding water - about a foot or just less - which is a good sign! Our first thought was to fix that and then start the tub up and see where we can go from there. It's nicely set into a deck, and really has a certain charm which only a wood tub can have - unless of course you build a portable into a deck to make it LOOK like this, but that is a lot of work, and it is very hard to match the soft gray of weathered redwood.

I offered to help make the repair, but the owner said he would have no problem doing it himself. I gave him some tips on using primer and such, and told him if he ran into problems to give me a call.

He said that after he gets the pipe extended and glued up, he will call me to come back and be sure the heater, pump and filter are all good to go. (They have not run in four years).

I haven't heard from him since, and I notice no update - which is why I thought I would post this update myself.

[Rerax]

I haven't heard from him since, and I notice no update - which is why I thought I would post this update myself.

Hey Chas,

The hot tub has once again fallen to the bottom of the priorities list. My Dad was nearing the end of his rehab from a stroke and getting ready to come back home when my Mom, who is in her eighties and still running her own business, was on such overload that she had a fake heart attack! (After the precautionary angiogram, her cardiologist said that her heart was in great shape and that the attack was probably caused by stress.) Now I've got a list of things to do at my parents' house; as if my to-do list had room for anything else.

My lesson from all this - cherish those times when things like hot tubs are your biggest worries!

I really enjoyed meeting you and am very appreciative for the time you spent with me. My brother was certainly right to recommend you and, for now, I'll just continue using the Hot Springs tub he purchased from you, even if I do have to walk four blocks in a wet bathing suit.

Best regards.